Stock that rail staff (ahem) ‘borrowed’ to keep the job moving?

[Cowley]

As mentioned in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-retired-and-not-cascaded.208283/post-4790390

A lot of us remember things turning up in the days of BR that probably weren’t where they were supposed to be.
Local to me were departmental allocated 33s and 50s borrowed to keep things running on services to Barnstaple or Waterloo, but I bet there’s some quite interesting stories from ex rail staff of what used to go on..?

 

[Ashley Hill]

A driver (long retired) at my depot was asked to stay on to prevent a cancellation. As he'd miss his last train home he said he'd do the overtime if he could have a taxi home. He was given a 37 with a proviso that he'd bring back when he booked on the next day. I should point out he berthed it in a siding at his local station overnight and not outside his home .

 

[Bevan Price]

I think it was a long-established "custom", even in steam days, that if a depot was short of available locos, they would "borrow" any suitable loco. that had arrived on depot, but was allocated to another depot.

 

[Richard Scott]

Not unusual to see Scottish locos deep in England, remember seeing 47644 on the Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury leg of a train from Euston. In Gloucestershire, where I grew up, was more common to see borrowed Scottish locos than Stratford ones (these were nigh on impossible to see outside of their home territory, did Stratford keep a tight grip on their locos?) Think furthest I've seen a loco away from home was abroad. Marseille allocated 67561 at Dieppe on a Paris train as far as Rouen or Muehldorf allocated 218348 in Lübeck.

 

[Pinza-C55]

I once had to take a wagon from Ferme Park yard to Bounds Green depot about 1986. It was (I think) an ex GWR Iron Mink and it was used to convey Exmover used in the carriage cleaner. The Exmover was a lurid green and was seeping out of the joints in the wagon and it had a very bizarre appearance.

 

[Dave W]

A driver (long retired) at my depot was asked to stay on to prevent a cancellation. As he'd miss his last train home he said he'd do the overtime if he could have a taxi home. He was given a 37 with a proviso that he'd bring back when he booked on the next day. I should point out he berthed it in a siding at his local station overnight and not outside his home .

Marvellous A different time, I'm sure, but the bobby must have been nonplussed when he booked on to a 37 in his sidings.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Marvellous A different time, I'm sure, but the bobby must have been nonplussed when he booked on to a 37 in his sidings.

The area concerned is covered by a panel. The movement supervisor (now called an AOM) organised it locally and of course no track access charges in those halcyon days.

 

[30907]

As mentioned in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-retired-and-not-cascaded.208283/post-4790390

A lot of us remember things turning up in the days of BR that probably weren’t where they were supposed to be.
Local to me were departmental allocated 33s and 50s borrowed to keep things running on services to Barnstaple or Waterloo, but I bet there’s some quite interesting stories from ex rail staff of what used to go on..?

And ISTR Exeter acquired a few Mk1s to go with them to cover DMU failures.

 

[Gloster]

Before I gave up spotting (around 1981) my last 47 was an Inverness based one that I saw leaving Exeter on a northbound cross-country. I think it had come through from Penzance.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Yes,they were purloined from passing trains to form a scratch set. After a while stock control became aware of this set and would ask for it back. Shortly after another set would be acquired . I recommend John Heatons excellent books covering his career as Area Manager at Exeter. His scratch sets are often mentioned.

 

[306024]

Not unusual to see Scottish locos deep in England, remember seeing 47644 on the Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury leg of a train from Euston. In Gloucestershire, where I grew up, was more common to see borrowed Scottish locos than Stratford ones (these were nigh on impossible to see outside of their home territory, did Stratford keep a tight grip on their locos?) Think furthest I've seen a loco away from home was abroad. Marseille allocated 67561 at Dieppe on a Paris train as far as Rouen or Muehldorf allocated 218348 in Lübeck.

The running foreman at Stratford and the Loco controller at Liverpool St did indeed try to ensure Stratford locos stayed local. You don’t want a well oiled machine being replaced by some poorly maintained foreign engine.

 

[Beebman]

I mentioned in the recent thread about Waterloo-Reading stopping patterns about a time in the early 80s when the 4-CEPs were being refurbished at Swindon and would be sitting around at Clapham Junction waiting for a diesel to haul them westwards. The SW Division would occasionally borrow them, indeed I once travelled from Earley to Feltham in a 4-CEP coupled to a more usual 4-CIG.

Also I recall a time in the late 70s that a Tyseley 3-car Class 116 DMU used to be stabled over the weekend at Reading Depot (I can't remember why, I think possibly it did a parcels working to and from the West Midlands?) and one Sunday I travelled on a stopper from Paddington formed of such a unit complete with WMPTE logos which had obviously been borrowed.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I mentioned in the recent thread about Waterloo-Reading stopping patterns about a time in the early 80s when the 4-CEPs were being refurbished at Swindon and would be sitting around at Clapham Junction waiting for a diesel to haul them westwards. The SW Division would occasionally borrow them, indeed I once travelled from Earley to Feltham in a 4-CEP coupled to a more usual 4-CIG.

Also I recall a time in the late 70s that a Tyseley 3-car Class 116 DMU used to be stabled over the weekend at Reading Depot (I can't remember why, I think possibly it did a parcels working to and from the West Midlands?) and one Sunday I travelled on a stopper from Paddington formed of such a unit complete with WMPTE logos which had obviously been borrowed.

Tyseley sets working into North Wales on a weekend often used to be failed to "return home" , and usefully employed locally. Formations shortened accordingly on the return trip.

Air braked CAR brakevans were rare - so a passing one marked "to work between Tees Yard and Haverton Hill" was ideal for working Ipswich Yard to West Bank Terminal (pinched off a passing train ex Harwich)

Pinching standy-by loco's for non failure reasons was common , but I got incredibly cross one day when a 47 was taken off the Swindon - Longbridge car train to work an empty rake of 1st class stock for the Cheltenham Gold Cup.

 

[PeterC]

The running foreman at Stratford and the Loco controller at Liverpool St did indeed try to ensure Stratford locos stayed local. You don’t want a well oiled machine being replaced by some poorly maintained foreign engine.

Do I detect an ulterior motive for the locos painted with huge Union Flags beyond jubilee patriotism?

 

[Dr_Paul]

I mentioned in the recent thread about Waterloo-Reading stopping patterns about a time in the early 80s when the 4-CEPs were being refurbished at Swindon and would be sitting around at Clapham Junction waiting for a diesel to haul them westwards. The SW Division would occasionally borrow them, indeed I once travelled from Earley to Feltham in a 4-CEP coupled to a more usual 4-CIG.

Would they not have their shoe-bars removed to ensure clearance on non-Southern routes?

 

[70014IronDuke]

Not unusual to see Scottish locos deep in England, remember seeing 47644 on the Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury leg of a train from Euston. ...

Oh, the joys of youth. I actually thought, on first reading, that you had seen a Jinty on a passenger train there.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Michael Welch's Surrey Steam has a picture of a B1, no 61313, in 1964, which was on an Edinburgh to Lewes pigeon special and which ended up at Eastbourne with a hot box. It was repaired at Redhill -- the repairs taking from June to October -- and was tested on an ECS working to Brighton and then on stopping services to Reading and local freight services. Eventually it returned to its own shed at Sheffield.

 

[ABB125]

Tyseley sets working into North Wales on a weekend often used to be failed to "return home" , and usefully employed locally. Formations shortened accordingly on the return trip.

Air braked CAR brakevans were rare - so a passing one marked "to work between Tees Yard and Haverton Hill" was ideal for working Ipswich Yard to West Bank Terminal (pinched off a passing train ex Harwich)

Pinching standy-by loco's for non failure reasons was common , but I got incredibly cross one day when a 47 was taken off the Swindon - Longbridge car train to work an empty rake of 1st class stock for the Cheltenham Gold Cup.

What could possibly be more important than the Gold Cup?

 

[Taunton]

The Somerset & Dorset was desperately short of anything substantial on summer Saturdays in the 1950s-60s. From about Thursday afternoon Bath Green Park would begin salting away anything worthwhile that turned up from the north. An afternoon incoming freight commonly had a Black 5, which the Gloucester crews would be dismayed had been "red carded" (in quotes, notice) on Green Park shed, and a 4F, or even a 2P 4-4-0, was all that was available for their return. This was both Thursday and Friday. Saturday, both would be fully recovered down at Bournemouth. There was a story that the Gloucester foreman once sent Thursday's 4F back on the Friday freight, and Green Park gave them a 3F "Jinty" tank for the return. Didn't happen again.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The running foreman at Stratford and the Loco controller at Liverpool St did indeed try to ensure Stratford locos stayed local. You don’t want a well oiled machine being replaced by some poorly maintained foreign engine.

TBF few Stratford diagrams took them away from home ground. The obvious exceptions were Freightliner workings to northern points on the ECML. For many years this wasn't an issue: SF normally turned out pairs of 37s and as these were common at the receiving depots there was little point in borrowing them. Towards the end of such services SF had no-heat 47s available and these could handle the work capably. However the Scottish Region wasn't quite so well blessed with such locos. One summer it became common practice for the loco off the inbound overnight 'liner to Portobello (Edinburgh) to then be put on a morning peak Fife circle working; the stock wasn't air-conditioned so the lack of ETH was not a real issue.

Not unusual to see Scottish locos deep in England, remember seeing 47644 on the Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury leg of a train from Euston. In Gloucestershire, where I grew up, was more common to see borrowed Scottish locos than Stratford ones (these were nigh on impossible to see outside of their home territory, did Stratford keep a tight grip on their locos?)

I have previously mentioned my favourite example of a loco far from home. Inverness based 47541 ("The Queen Mother"), complete with Highland Rail stag logos, on a late evening Salisbury service looked somewhat incongruous at Waterloo.

Think furthest I've seen a loco away from home was abroad. Marseille allocated 67561 at Dieppe on a Paris train as far as Rouen or Muehldorf allocated 218348 in Lübeck.

Long before the modern capability for international inter-operability there used to be seasonal diagrams taking DB locos, particularly 110s, deep into Austria (Graz, Villach). And while rare they very occasionally found themselves on local work before returning home.

 

[xotGD]

Cardiff 37s ending up on the Yarmouth - Newcastle.

Some creative allocation at Stratford I believe.

 

[Beebman]

Would they not have their shoe-bars removed to ensure clearance on non-Southern routes?

I think what happened was that the 4-CEPs travelled to Clapham Junction under their own power and if they were sitting in the sidings still with their shoe-bars on, and the SW Division found themselves short of a unit or two, then they were 'appropriated'. I remember at the time that the SEG magazine 'Live Rail' regularly reported the numbers of such units which found their way onto Waterloo routes.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

What could possibly be more important than the Gold Cup?

Only the Longbridge production line (ARG group) .......that could have been a very expensive failure.

 

[Bevan Price]

Not exactly "pinched", but in circa 1962, a Southern "Schools" 4-4-0 was used on a railtour starting in the Midlands, and to get it back down south, it was put on a Nottingham Victoria - London Marylebone semi-fast.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The failure of the Sherpa “workabus” between Paddington and Old Oak (a not uncommon experience if “side-saddle” had been driving “tramway style” and knackered the gearbox on one of the two minibuses) meant a loco substitution. The tannoy at the Oak would announce something like “the 3 o’clock workabus will be 50031 from the coal stage”. (You had to know your roads!) It usually used to drop you off at 1a in Paddington and there would be another announcement at Paddington for staff waiting there. The rarest traction I got a lift on that run was 56001.

The one occasion I heard about that wins the prize for me was when the Bedford-Bletchley ran out of DMU’s one afternoon. The cl.127 DPU was pressed into action with the help of some station seats from Bletchley. At each station the roller shutter door was pulled up to let people on and off! You would get hung for doing that now.

 

[Kingspanner]

My parents both worked for BR in the 50s and when first married lived near Dalmeny in South Queensferry. One night after the dancing they got carried past their stop and ended up stranded at Inverkeithing after the last southbound had gone. They promptly hopped up on the station pilot(!) and got a lift back over The Bridge.

The number of ways in which that is now impossible....

 

[6Gman]

My parents both worked for BR in the 50s and when first married lived near Dalmeny in South Queensferry. One night after the dancing they got carried past their stop and ended up stranded at Inverkeithing after the last southbound had gone. They promptly hopped up on the station pilot(!) and got a lift back over The Bridge.

The number of ways in which that is now impossible....

In the early 60s we (my parents, my brother [aged about 9) and I [about 6]) somehow got stranded at Georgemas Junction. My father, then a passed fireman at distant 6G, had a word with somebody and we were conveyed Engine & Brake Van to Thurso. Too late now to find out whether it was a booked or special move.

 

[etr221]

There was story I heard a good while back, of a shed master 'up north' on the Eastern Region, two of whose locos - Austerity 2-8-0s IIRC - had gone off on inter-regional freights to the Western Region - and not come back. Making enquiries, everyone (especially those on the Western) denied all knowledge as to where they were.
Any, he went off on holiday, by car, and got held up at a level crossing - train coming - headed by one of his missing locos - had to wait a bit more, second train coming - headed by the other. Now he knew! Into box to use phone (to WR control) - "those two engines you said you know nothing about, they've just passed here, I trust they'll be home before I am"

 

[Ianigsy]

At Paddington one Saturday in the early 1990s, 58001 appeared on a cross-country from Birmingham and took the return working out (which I took as far as Reading).

My own experience of a 33 to Barnstaple was 33025 Sultan in February 1991.

When the Highland main line and Inverness-Aberdeen went over to 158s, the Inverness 47s made their way into the Crewe Trans-Pennine pool for a year or so before moving on to Parcels. In practice, at weekends in particular with summer extras and drags, any 47/4 could appear on any diagram- I can remember the above mentioned 47541 The Queen Mother from Warrington to Liverpool, 47492 The Enterprising Scot on the first leg of a Liverpool-Edinburgh trip and 47576 King’s Lynn in NSE livery on a WCML drag at Macclesfield.

 

[150219]

It certainly used to be reasonably commonplace from talking to my colleagues over the years, whilst certainly not a daily occurrence the flexibility and widespread traction knowledge afforded during the BR era certainly helped.

As mentioned above, there are a series of anecdotes from John Heaton in his 'Devon Railways: The Area Manager's Diary' books about this. I would certainly recommend them and there are many other stories from the 80's in there too.

One of my former colleagues told me that one of his responsibilities was for withdrawn DMUs and it wasn't unknown (albeit a rare event) for a unit to be reinstated before being withdrawn again, once it had finished whichever diagram was needed. Another one of my colleagues told me that depending on which loco has needed for 'haulage/bashing' would dictate what workings it would be allocated to get it closer to where it was wanted!

It's entirely possible that any such activity was on a whim of the staff involved for personal gain (as per the haulage) or a desire to keep the railway going for the passenger (as per John Heaton).

There are still more modern day occurrences, but they are agreed in a much more stringent manner rather than being covert. A 150 from Tyseley was used on a service from Snow Hill to Bicester North and also un-diagrammed mixing of 67+Mark 3's and 165/168 units between Chiltern and WSMR services. The WSMR 67's did have a tendency to get pulled onto charter workings instead of their actual intended work, which meant a bit of red/gold variety on the WSMR services too.