Stock that rail staff (ahem) ‘borrowed’ to keep the job moving?

[superjohn]

In the last year of loco hauled trains between Cambridge and King’s Lynn I turned up at Cambridge one Saturday morning to find western region green celebrity 47484 in the platform.

At the time there were only three loco diagrams remaining and Stratford had four dedicated NSE liveried 47s to cover them. It was extremely unusual to see anything other than those in use, let alone a ‘foreign’ loco.

 

[davetheguard]

As mentioned in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-retired-and-not-cascaded.208283/post-4790390

A lot of us remember things turning up in the days of BR that probably weren’t where they were supposed to be.
Local to me were departmental allocated 33s and 50s borrowed to keep things running on services to Barnstaple or Waterloo, but I bet there’s some quite interesting stories from ex rail staff of what used to go on..?

There's quite a few references to this practice in the four books written by former area manager at Exeter, & Railway Magazine columnist, John Heaton - "Devon Railways The Area Manager's Diary".

 

[Strathclyder]

I know this is outwith the era this thread is generally aimed at, but a nearly new EWS Class 66 (66014) managed a complete Crewe to Holyhead and return in place of a 37/4 in April 1999, the outbound leg being the classes' first passenger train outing barring railtours. Outwith them heading portions of the Caledonian Sleeper with 73/9s and the like, I can't think of many occurrences of 66s working a regularly scheduled passenger train.

 

[43096]

I know this is outwith the era this thread is generally aimed at, but a nearly new EWS Class 66 (66014) managed a complete Crewe to Holyhead and return in place of a 37/4 in April 1999, the outbound leg being the classes' first passenger train outing barring railtours. Outwith them heading portions of the Caledonian Sleeper with 73/9s and the like, I can't think of many occurrences of 66s working a regularly scheduled passenger train.

The Taunton-Cardiff LHCS sets that were used by FGW saw a Class 66 used on them at times. From memory one of those used was 66402, which as 66734 ended its days on the shores of Loch Treig.

 

[neilmc]

This is fairly well documented, but at the end of 1967 the surviving Britannia Pacifics were working their very last turns from Carlisle Kingmoor (apart from celebrity 70013 Oliver Cromwell, of course). Several were out on the very last day, Saturday December 30th including 70045 Lord Rowallan sent on a freight to Skipton whence it retired to Rose Grove, withdrawn and never to work again. Well, almost - on New Year's Day 1968, the following Monday, it somehow found itself on a coal train to Wigan, clearly the shed foreman at Rose Grove didn't want the Pacific clogging up his scrap line so it ended up being Springs Branch's problem, where I saw it dead a couple of months later.

Presumably Springs Branch also had to commandeer a precious diesel to get the crew and empties back to Rose Grove!

In the days of substantial numbers of holiday extras on summer Saturdays, almost anything could be commandeered to haul a rake of old coaches to the seaside. From Leeds I remember seeing Knottingley-based Class 47s normally confined to merry-go-round coal workings and freight class 37s from Healey Mills on passenger workings.

 

[Pinza-C55]

I don't know if it is strictly relevant to the thread but when I started at Kings Cross in 1983 I was told that one of the carriage fitters at Hornsey had been investigated by the BTP for alleged thefts from the depot. When they went round to his house they found he had a Ripper cab/cab handset fitted up as an intercom and inside he had Class 313 seats in his living room.

 

[Cowley]

and inside he had Class 313 seats in his living room.

Did he have them set out in a 3+2 seating arrangement?

 

[Pinza-C55]

Did he have them set out in a 3+2 seating arrangement?

I don't know, or whether they made him take them back. It was a very practical idea.

 

[Richard Scott]

The Taunton-Cardiff LHCS sets that were used by FGW saw a Class 66 used on them at times. From memory one of those used was 66402, which as 66734 ended its days on the shores of Loch Treig.

Was on it for a week. From memory others that worked were 66006, 66135, 66153 and think 66721.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

In the late 1970s class 20s were not uncommon on the West Highland, usually single loco on Ballast and local trip workings, and very occasionally, when nothing else was available, on the afternoon mixed Fort William to Mallaig and back. Also sometimes in pairs on freight trains, or less often in multiple with a cl27 or cl37, or even a cl25 on freight or occasionally passenger trains – some were steam piped so could be marshalled inside the train loco.

No requirement for train heat on Monday 28th August 1978 but there must have been a desperate shortage of power for West Highland workings and what unfolded that day was very much a one-off.

I picked up the 08.36 summer dated Glasgow Queen St to Mallaig 19 minutes late from Tyndrum Upper, 6 Mk1s hauled by 20089, 3 further minutes lost to Bridge of Orchy then the train stood for 26 minutes before departing with 20116 added on front – I have no record of where it appeared from but most likely taken off a ballast working. A 47min late departure from Bridge of Orchy was clawed back to 43 late arriving Fort William where, waiting to back down to take the 6 coaches to Mallaig was 20036. 37 late from Fort William and 39 late into Mallaig.

A never to be repeated event, and no, I have no idea what happened next.

The following day with the booked class 27 motive power throughout the same train was right time throughout.

 

[ABB125]

In the late 1970s class 20s were not uncommon on the West Highland, usually single loco on Ballast and local trip workings, and very occasionally, when nothing else was available, on the afternoon mixed Fort William to Mallaig and back. Also sometimes in pairs on freight trains, or less often in multiple with a cl27 or cl37, or even a cl25 on freight or occasionally passenger trains – some were steam piped so could be marshalled inside the train loco.

No requirement for train heat on Monday 28th August 1978 but there must have been a desperate shortage of power for West Highland workings and what unfolded that day was very much a one-off.

I picked up the 08.36 summer dated Glasgow Queen St to Mallaig 19 minutes late from Tyndrum Upper, 6 Mk1s hauled by 20089, 3 further minutes lost to Bridge of Orchy then the train stood for 26 minutes before departing with 20116 added on front – I have no record of where it appeared from but most likely taken off a ballast working. A 47min late departure from Bridge of Orchy was clawed back to 43 late arriving Fort William where, waiting to back down to take the 6 coaches to Mallaig was 20036. 37 late from Fort William and 39 late into Mallaig.

A never to be repeated event, and no, I have no idea what happened next.

The following day with the booked class 27 motive power throughout the same train was right time throughout.

That sounds fascinating - I wonder if someone else on here knows more?

 

[etr221]

In the late 1970s class 20s were not uncommon on the West Highland, usually single loco on Ballast and local trip workings, and very occasionally, when nothing else was available, on the afternoon mixed Fort William to Mallaig and back. Also sometimes in pairs on freight trains, or less often in multiple with a cl27 or cl37, or even a cl25 on freight or occasionally passenger trains – some were steam piped so could be marshalled inside the train loco.

No requirement for train heat on Monday 28th August 1978 but there must have been a desperate shortage of power for West Highland workings and what unfolded that day was very much a one-off.

I picked up the 08.36 summer dated Glasgow Queen St to Mallaig 19 minutes late from Tyndrum Upper, 6 Mk1s hauled by 20089, 3 further minutes lost to Bridge of Orchy then the train stood for 26 minutes before departing with 20116 added on front – I have no record of where it appeared from but most likely taken off a ballast working. A 47min late departure from Bridge of Orchy was clawed back to 43 late arriving Fort William where, waiting to back down to take the 6 coaches to Mallaig was 20036. 37 late from Fort William and 39 late into Mallaig.

A never to be repeated event, and no, I have no idea what happened next.

The following day with the booked class 27 motive power throughout the same train was right time throughout.

AIUI the West Highland line was one of the areas where 08 (and similar) shunters never ventured; and in their place Fort William/Mallaig Junction had a couple of class 20s as shunters (and general dogsbodies). Doubtless someone else can provide more details.

 

[Gloster]

AIUI the West Highland line was one of the areas where 08 (and similar) shunters never ventured; and in their place Fort William/Mallaig Junction had a couple of class 20s as shunters (and general dogsbodies). Doubtless someone else can provide more details.

Fort William had BR design 350 hp. shunters from the summer of 1961 to sometime after 1974. (The source is Shed by Shed, Volumes 7 and 8, which - unusually - only give the departure date of the last one (08 718) as ‘between 6/74 and 8/81’, although Vol. 7 does give it as there in 12/74.)

 

[hexagon789]

20221+20208 28/08/86

20221+20208 arrive at Leuchars with the 15.30 Dundee to Edinburgh vice DMU on Thursday 28th August 1986. A dispute at Haymarket DMU depot led to many extra loco hauled trains in the summer of 86.

flic.kr

Two twenties and a scratch set of Mk1s replacing a DMU on Dundee-Edinburgh, I don't know if that counts as borrowed per se. Certainly 20s on such a service was unusual, a dispute at Haymarket depot led to many ad hoc loco-hauled substitutions of Haymarket DMU diagrams.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Fort William had BR design 350 hp. shunters from the summer of 1961 to sometime after 1974. (The source is Shed by Shed, Volumes 7 and 8, which - unusually - only give the departure date of the last one (08 718) as ‘between 6/74 and 8/81’, although Vol. 7 does give it as there in 12/74.)

12/74 would probably (roughly) align with the closure of the original loco shed - the new station opened in June 75 and the old shed site had already been cleared to release the and.

08s did still appear from time to time.

The Paper Mill purchased an 08 to replace it's industrial shunter, still retaining BR blue and number 08077. From time to time it would visit FW shed for any works beyond the capabilities of the Mill's own fitter(s), and if out of service for a spell they would hire an 08 from BR.

The 'new' shed was (presumably still is) a fairly modest affair, a single road with a pit and accommodating one loco, and staffing in the late 70s was one fitter on each of two shifts hence maintenance was not planned there although it could be done in an emergency by adjusting the shifts of the fitters to have both there.

Also, the Aluminium Works used to receive shipments of 'Petroleum Coke' for use in the smelting process, perhaps twice a year. 'Shipment' meaning literally a full ship load docked at one of the East Coast ports - I think Grangemouth - which came north in MCV and MCO wagons, some on service freights, and some on 'Coke Specials'. At any one time there could be 30/40 plus wagons on site and they would hire an 08 to shunt wagons around the site.

08s were also used on local trip work from time to time in the early 80's - perhaps after such hires.

Straying slightly off topic, one of the coke specials came to spectacular grief between Tulloch and Roy Bridge - mercifully not in Monessie Gorge as a number of wagons went down the bank followed by the brake van. The Guard walked away with minor bumps and bruises!.

 

[Ianigsy]

Mention of Class 20s reminds me of one that slipped my mind - 20007 and 20166 working a Liverpool-Preston diagram around 1990, which I picked up on the return working at Prescot.

 

[Scotrail84]

Off the top of my head I've seen, worked or known of:

4 car 156 Edinburgh to Glasgow QS shuttle during the bad snow of 2010 when 170s were dropping like flies due to the cold weather. Lost time due to being restricted to 75mph

158 and a 156 tied up during the same period on an Edinburgh to Dundee local that had to be crewed by Edinburgh men both ways as Dundee men didn't sign 156s.

Vague recollections of a 2 car 156 on an Edinburgh to Aberdeen run and back ECS Haymarket shed, again during the same bad weather period due to 170 shortages although my memory may be playing tricks on me with that one.

322 to Newcraighall on a fireworks special.

156 to Dunbar although that may have been diagramed (SO)

Definitely seen a 156 work a North Berwick due to electric shortages and the same goes for a 158 as well.

2 car 170 (402) working to Glasgow Central via Shotts only calling at Livingston South there and back.

All of these units were subbed in to save cancellations. This type of thing doesn't happen often nowadays though.

 

[Strathclyder]

158 and a 156 tied up during the same period on an Edinburgh to Dundee local that had to be crewed by Edinburgh men both ways as Dundee men didn't sign 156s.

Would this be the working you refer to? 158722 & 156510 were the units in question:

 

[Pinza-C55]

Off the top of my head I've seen, worked or known of:

4 car 156 Edinburgh to Glasgow QS shuttle during the bad snow of 2010 when 170s were dropping like flies due to the cold weather. Lost time due to being restricted to 75mph

158 and a 156 tied up during the same period on an Edinburgh to Dundee local that had to be crewed by Edinburgh men both ways as Dundee men didn't sign 156s.

Vague recollections of a 2 car 156 on an Edinburgh to Aberdeen run and back ECS Haymarket shed, again during the same bad weather period due to 170 shortages although my memory may be playing tricks on me with that one.

322 to Newcraighall on a fireworks special.

156 to Dunbar although that may have been diagramed (SO)

Definitely seen a 156 work a North Berwick due to electric shortages and the same goes for a 158 as well.

2 car 170 (402) working to Glasgow Central via Shotts only calling at Livingston South there and back.

All of these units were subbed in to save cancellations. This type of thing doesn't happen often nowadays though.

I have a photo of a Class 26 at Newcastle which hauled a failed Duff from Edinburgh with a southbound ECML overnight train. It was startling to see a 26 so far south of its normal home turf.

 

[nlogax]

Don't know if this was a case of 'borrowing' or something else, but in the late 80s I remember 4-CEPs making their way to Bournemouth which was usually just VEP / CIG / REP / TC territory. Quite a novel sight especially as they still wore Jaffa Cake livery. Presumably they hadn't got lost somewhere in the south London area but it was fun to see something 150 miles west of where you'd expect to see it.

 

[Cowley]

Don't know if this was a case of 'borrowing' or something else, but in the late 80s I remember 4-CEPs making their way to Bournemouth which was usually just VEP / CIG / REP / TC territory. Quite a novel sight especially as they still wore Jaffa Cake livery. Presumably they hadn't got lost somewhere in the south London area but it was fun to see something 150 miles west of where you'd expect to see it.

Was that around the time that the 442s were being built and there was a shortage of REPs?

 

[nlogax]

Was that around the time that the 442s were being built and there was a shortage of REPs?

Indeed it was, 1988 for sure.

 

[randyrippley]

Would a pair of CEPs (or CIGs) been able to work with a 4-TC? Did it ever happen?

 

[delt1c]

Would a pair of CEPs (or CIGs) been able to work with a 4-TC? Did it ever happen?

Simple answer is yes as all Southern Stock of that era was designed to work to work together, however there were limitations if a REP was multiples to anything except TC’s . Even though possible i have never heard of a TC operating with a CIG, BIG or VEP.

 

[30907]

Simple answer is yes as all Southern Stock of that era was designed to work to work together, however there were limitations if a REP was multiples to anything except TC’s . Even though possible i have never heard of a TC operating with a CIG, BIG or VEP.

You would need a 33 or 73 attached to maintain the timetable though.

VEP+TC+EDL/DL was certainly timetabled on the SW for some years, and in principle any EP unit could be used.
And in 1967 when TCs were new and REPs and 74s were scarce, I travelled up from Swanage with (IIRC) 2HAP+73 as power from Bournemouth.

 

[yorksrob]

You would need a 33 or 73 attached to maintain the timetable though.

VEP+TC+EDL/DL was certainly timetabled on the SW for some years, and in principle any EP unit could be used.
And in 1967 when TCs were new and REPs and 74s were scarce, I travelled up from Swanage with (IIRC) 2HAP+73 as power from Bournemouth.

I'd love to get a HAP from Bournemouth to Waterloo !

 

[delt1c]

I'd love to get a HAP from Bournemouth to Waterloo !

Are you sure? Would be a bumpy uncomfortable journey, especially if you were in DMBS with no toilets

 

[big all]

Would a pair of CEPs (or CIGs) been able to work with a 4-TC? Did it ever happen?

no heat ' mg 'compressors or lights other than emergency on the tc as no train heat supply
although the tc being 63 stock will auto select back to find an mg running[90v output??]for light'control and battery charging??

 

[yorksrob]

Are you sure? Would be a bumpy uncomfortable journey, especially if you were in DMBS with no toilets

If it was non-stop, obviously I'd get the carriage with the toilet, but seriously, yes !!!

 

[Helvellyn]

Class 455 units are route cleared for passenger use to Haslemere and Basingstoke. In major disruption you'd occasionally get a pair of units used to the latter to just get people moving, but rarely (if ever?) to the former!