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Summer 2021 HST Staycation Specials on S&C

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37424

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Last year it was a bit of a novelty and got promotion on such as BBC Breakfast, this year less so, plus probably less interest from enthusiasts despite not being aimed at them last year but of course the alleged boring motive power was frequently substituted. Lets also remember the Northern Service was very limited last year where as this year its a full timetable and perhaps demand doesn't justify a five or six day a week service, and while the Staycation Express offers a much better experience the Northern fare between Skipton and Carlisle is half the price.

I think they perhaps missed a trick and should have branded it as another Pullman train perhaps the 125 Pullman or Staycation Pullman. The Blue Pullman livery and branding was inspired but the LSL livery is frankly a bit naff.
 
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XAM2175

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I've been looking at making a trip on it this year since my work situation is a lot less chaotic than last year and I will confess that the HST doesn't have quite the same draw for me (especially given that I don't care much for the livery).

Bigger problem I'm having though is that the website presence seems a bit... neglected. The main page and the timetable both still mention Sunday services and appear to suggest that the dining car is available on all services. The FAQs still say that they only sell tickets in sets of 2 or 4, and generally appear to not have been updated in some time. They do at least indicate that the "pre booked [sic] restaurant car" is only available on some trains, but I now don't know how to tell which trains those are because the timetable uses the same knife and fork pictogram for all the services.

The timetable is also not the most workable for a day trip from this end, but I accept that they have to work around existing services.

The biggest problem by far though is that their booking system appears to be incapable of selling same-day return tickets that originate at Carlisle - because the return train only works as far as Appleby, which is an annoyance in and of itself. So my only options appear to be to buy two singles, one each way, or buy an Appleby to Skipton return but board early at Carlisle on the outbound?
 

The Prisoner

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As per earlier post we did the Sunday lunch train, and it was excellent, but the rest of the service - bar the 16 in the dining car that they have restricted it to - was largely empty.

They've made it too hard to catch - just run it once each way from Leeds (population 800k) to Carlisle, rather than Skipton (population 15k). Out around 11, back around 4 so people can have a few hours in Carlisle if they are doing the return journey, or head home from there if they want to.

And either offer dining or don't - the website says dining options will be coming back once they have rebooked all the bookings for early August that they have had to move, but by the time they have done that summer will be over? I appreciate covid is a factor for them, but if that is the case just concentrate on the buffet and bin the dining car - there were 14 covers when we travelled (as a two we were given a table of four) - the £45 or so dining charge (£630) can't have covered the chef, staff and food. Will only work if they can deal with two coaches for dining, and they have already said they can't because of social distancing.
 

JRT

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It’s a shame passenger numbers seem to be low as by most accounts it’s a very good experience. I’ve been on it this year and last, and this time it seemed a lot more professional. At a guess a lot of the popularity last year was for the more varied traction.

When we travelled on it there seemed to be much more demand for dining than non dining, yet dining capacity seems to have been much reduced and doesn’t even seem to be an option to book any more. This will no doubt put a lot off as the meal on the train adds a lot more to the experience and is fairly good value compared to usual railtour dining prices.

Also why start at Appleby in the morning when it runs ECS from Carlisle? Carlisle has always been a popular start point for day trips on the Settle line but as we witnessed the 158 which runs out in front of the HST from Carlisle is often packed out with coach parties and day trippers leaving the HST behind it empty.

Lastly there seems to have been very little promotion of it considering all the expense on refurbishing the train and hiring staff. I live in Cumbria and have family all over the County, including a few with an interest in railways, and nobody I mentioned it to had heard of it. I only spotted it was starting on this forum.

I hope it becomes a success as it’s what the S&C has been crying out for for years, and the stock and service on board are excellent. It just seems it could be a lot better executed.
Re: the morning ECS from Carlisle.
Originally it was intended to stable overnight at Appleby, but for some reason it is stabled at Carlisle. However tonight Thursday it is off to Neville Hill. So there's no guarantee whereabouts it will end up when not in service.
 

JRT

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Re: the morning ECS from Carlisle.
Originally it was intended to stable overnight at Appleby, but for some reason it is stabled at Carlisle. However tonight Thursday it is off to Neville Hill. So there's no guarantee whereabouts it will end up when not in service.
Weekday services have been loading well this year, particularly the 11.18 from Skipton to Carlisle and the 15.09 return, but some Sunday services carried fewer than 30 passengers.

As a result, RCS decided to withdraw the Sunday service. The operator also reports disappointing numbers on the 09.40 from Appleby to Skipton and 17.17 return. It said the inability to start and finish these journeys at Carlisle due to a lack of platform capacity, had significantly dampened demand.
 

47827

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Re: the morning ECS from Carlisle.
Originally it was intended to stable overnight at Appleby, but for some reason it is stabled at Carlisle. However tonight Thursday it is off to Neville Hill. So there's no guarantee whereabouts it will end up when not in service.

Probably better for servicing the set as well as lodging traincrew (or getting them to/from it). Appleby creates extra headaches, especially if you were running 2 of the days during the recent Horse Fair this year.
 

yorksrob

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I saw the set stabled at Carlisle last weekend.

I thought it looked magnificent in the livery.
 

JRT

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I saw the set stabled at Carlisle last weekend.

I thought it looked magnificent in the livery.
The 125 set was supposed to be replaced by loco+coaches this week 14–19 August. Seems to be still the 125 set. Anyone know what did or didn't happen?
 

43096

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The 125 set was supposed to be replaced by loco+coaches this week 14–19 August. Seems to be still the 125 set. Anyone know what did or didn't happen?
That was to allow a week for maintenance on the HST set. Obviously they’ve found a way to do the maintenance without needing to stop the set for a week, so no substitution with inferior traction needed.
 

47827

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That was to allow a week for maintenance on the HST set. Obviously they’ve found a way to do the maintenance without needing to stop the set for a week, so no substitution with inferior traction needed.

Cancelling all the Sunday trains for the remainder of the season gives some extra downtime and reduces the overall running hours to necessitate bigger exams being needed as much.
 

37424

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Cancelling all the Sunday trains for the remainder of the season gives some extra downtime and reduces the overall running hours to necessitate bigger exams being needed as much.
I believe the plan for Loco Hauled train for a week was scrapped well before the cancelling of the Sunday Service.
 

47827

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I believe the plan for Loco Hauled train for a week was scrapped well before the cancelling of the Sunday Service.

Fair enough. It was more an observation of what doing that means in terms of potential benefit to the operation. I gather there is plenty of internal mood against using anything other than the booked hst set on those trains in all bar an emergency so the fact a way of keeping booked stock on all summer was found wasn't such a shock either way. Last year's trains had too many loco related headaches and were seen as a bit too enthusiast reliant whereas this year there has been more time to market it to the general public and create a different product and experience.
 

thedbdiboy

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We used the service last week, my son was keen and I hadn't done the S&C for a while so seeing it from a Mk3 seemed a better bet than a Sprinter. Booking was straightforward, everything was clean and well managed, the train ran on time and was reasonably well loaded without being uncomfortably crowded.IMG_20210819_130811.jpg
 

STEVIEBOY1

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What will happen to the HST Train when the season ends next month? I wonder if it will run again next year? maybe they should advertise it more, although of course this has been such a challenging couple of years.
 

Ken H

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wonder how much Northern revenue it has abstracted. or is this all new business to rail.
 

Ianno87

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wonder how much Northern revenue it has abstracted. or is this all new business to rail.

Presumably Northern get some revenue by virtue of people travelling to Skipton to ride it.

But yes, I'd suspect the majority of travellers probably wouldn't have travelled at all otherwise.
 

47827

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What will happen to the HST Train when the season ends next month? I wonder if it will run again next year? maybe they should advertise it more, although of course this has been such a challenging couple of years.

It could well land up doing a few budget charters from somewhere between seasons undercutting all the competition as per IC railtours loco hauled set (pure speculation), but time will tell.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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I see that this train is running for one week later this month, half term holiday.
 

Iskra

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I see that this train is running for one week later this month, half term holiday.
Should be interesting to see how loadings are, as this will be the most ‘normal’ times this train has run in terms of Covid and demand.
 

JRT

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I see that this train is running for one week later this month, half term holiday.
Running 23–30 October, both SATURDAYS, plus Monday to Thursday, at the previous times. Note they have advertised connections on NORTHERN (additional ticket required) from/to Carlisle for the Appleby–Skipton trip.
 
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