• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Surfers call on GWR to review board-on-trains ban

Status
Not open for further replies.

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
6,645
Location
Northern England
Would you like to provide a source for this research? It would be good to know what questions were actually asked - too often any such surveys use leading questions.
Has the same research asked them if they like luke warm tea or coffee, or is it the sort of 'research' that posts a leading question to obtain the desired answer?

eg
"do you think it would be better if we provided an at seat service so you don't have to get up when you want a choice of refreshments?" type of question

as opposed to
"we provide a really large range of items in our on board shop and buffet counter, including hot food and drinks, supported by an at seat trolley of selected items. Should we provide both so you have the choice?"

pointless surveys simply designs to justify the decision already taken for wider economic reasons.

Better to just be honest about it.
It seems to me that a better metric would be to run a train with both for a while and see which is preferred.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

irish_rail

Established Member
Joined
30 Oct 2013
Messages
3,813
Location
Plymouth
The 5-car units are good Adelante replacements - the right size for off-peak services on the North and South Cotswold lines, and can be doubled up in the peaks. (But they don't need kitchens for that...)
Trouble is they are overwhelmingly used on the main GWR intercity route, london to Cornwall. I agree they are great for the cotswold and off peak Cheltenham , bedwyn etc, but the fact the b and h is full of tens of 5 car trains (mainly in pairs) is plain daft.
But as I said we are where we are and no use crying over spilt milk
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
It seems to me that a better metric would be to run a train with both for a while and see which is preferred.

Invariably the trolley for "impulse buy" sales.

I've never seen trolleys so well patronised as I've seen an a few long distance GWR journeys I've done.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Invariably the trolley for "impulse buy" sales.

I've never seen trolleys so well patronised as I've seen an a few long distance GWR journeys I've done.

I've not seen a trolley on any of the GWR journeys I've done, bar one where I had to go and look for it!

I do prefer a trolley, but it needs to pass every seat at least once an hour. Which means it's more expensive than a buffet to provide, as you need one for each 2-3 coaches rather than one per train.
 

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
15,823
Location
East Anglia
Invariably the trolley for "impulse buy" sales.

I've never seen trolleys so well patronised as I've seen an a few long distance GWR journeys I've done.
The XC trolley can be very popular. I've boarded at St.Erth then trolley gets on at Plymouth and finally I get a coffee at Tiverton.
 

northernbelle

Member
Joined
10 Oct 2018
Messages
679
Logic would suggest some judicious lengthening of Castle HST sets as a relatively cost effective solution to the route, you could even store the coaches in winter. Even a coach turned into one long luggage van in the sets...no end of room for bikes / boards etc etc.

Probably cheaper than the Scotrail 153 conversion project cost.

I'm not under the illusion this will happen tho.
Rebuilding knackered HST trailers is neither cost effective nor cheap - it was considered as one of the options for the Paddington - Penzance route and just didn't stack up. Given the lengthy period of time it's taken ScotRail to get its sets, this seems to have been the right decision - especially when it's rolling stock that would potentially only go another 10 years. There's also the issue of squeezing in HSTs along the Reading-Paddington corridor amongst the faster IET electric paths.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
6,996
Rebuilding knackered HST trailers is neither cost effective nor cheap - it was considered as one of the options for the Paddington - Penzance route and just didn't stack up. Given the lengthy period of time it's taken ScotRail to get its sets, this seems to have been the right decision - especially when it's rolling stock that would potentially only go another 10 years. There's also the issue of squeezing in HSTs along the Reading-Paddington corridor amongst the faster IET electric paths.
I was referring to use the situation on the route in cornwall where the 5 car IETs are operating as per the post a bit before I was responding to ref 5 car use and standing. Obv not an option for the London services now.
Castle sets were ready faster than scotrails it seemed but that's off topic really. Don't recall a lot of fuss and costs remarked on when GWR carried out the castle set project and related DDA compliance etc.
 

34006

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2020
Messages
41
Location
barnstaple
Would it be alright to take an ironing board into the passenger carriage of an 800/802 to Penzance ? Why is a surfboard different ?
 

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
15,823
Location
East Anglia
Well I wouldn't expect it to be getting wet on an 800... at least not since they fixed the aircon :)
Looking at charts for someone roughly 6ft the board can be up to 9ft. In that it seems they are uncomfortably large for an average saloon of a train.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
Well this generated a lot of heat.

So, how many people actually want to take their surfboard on a GWR 80x each year? A couple of hundred individuals?

And surely there is an answer to this problem anyway. Just get a folding surfboard (they do exist!)
 

irish_rail

Established Member
Joined
30 Oct 2013
Messages
3,813
Location
Plymouth
Well this generated a lot of heat.

So, how many people actually want to take their surfboard on a GWR 80x each year? A couple of hundred individuals?

And surely there is an answer to this problem anyway. Just get a folding surfboard (they do exist!)
True. The bigger issue is lack of bike space.
 

philthetube

Established Member
Joined
5 Jan 2016
Messages
3,749
Exactly. Booked as per a bicycle, taking the space of a bicycle.

There should not be luggage in the bicycle area, and if it is the owner has to move it.
agreed, but when there is and the luggage owner says no??????????

There shouldn't be people in reserved seats, sometimes there are, easily sorted out compared with a bike which can't go anywhere else
 

Jozhua

Established Member
Joined
6 Jan 2019
Messages
1,856
This is so strange to me. I take oversize luggage on the train all the time.

The issue is really, when your entire management can drive and is thoroughly disconnected from the needs of people using public transport. If you're trying to live without a car, it's not about the 90% of trips with a backpack, it's those 10% when you have two suitcases and a 72-key keyboard in tow! I took a desk and two chairs back from IKEA on the Metrolink the other week.

Frankly, I'd be tempted to hide the surfboard as another item of luggage and see if they notice. Get a carrying case for something like a double-bass and ram it in there. That's what I'd do.

GWR's IETs do, of course, have a large unused space down the end.

The kitchen.

It's a colossal waste of space on all but a few services, and why the five-car units, in particular, have it continues to baffle me. You could fit a whole bunch of surfboards and bikes in there with no adverse impact on passengers whatsoever.
Yeah, but they need half a carriage to prepare the sandwiches and crisps.
 

squizzler

Established Member
Joined
4 Jan 2017
Messages
1,903
Location
Jersey, Channel Islands
The solution is very simple. If the demand is there an enterprising (highways) coach operator can buy an appropriate trailer for surfboards and run from London to the main surfing resorts.

I have in fact used a “bike bus” in the past for cycle tourists that was exactly the same thing. It was a normal holiday coach for passengers, so the only special expense for an established coach firm would be the custom bike trailer. Moreover, you might think there can be no shortage of holiday coach operators looking for new business opportunities.

Coming next week: a six page thread on why local busses should be equipped to deliver pallets of building supplies :)
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
9,252
Location
Between Edinburgh and Exeter
The solution is very simple. If the demand is there an enterprising (highways) coach operator can buy an appropriate trailer for surfboards and run from London to the main surfing resorts.

I have in fact used a “bike bus” in the past for cycle tourists that was exactly the same thing. It was a normal holiday coach for passengers, so the only special expense for an established coach firm would be the custom bike trailer. Moreover, you might think there can be no shortage of holiday coach operators looking for new business opportunities.

Coming next week: a six page thread on why local busses should be equipped to deliver pallets of building supplies :)
But, that doesn’t A; Help anyone not travelling from London unless you are going to divert said coach to all of the principle stations a West Country bound service may stop at and B; effectively continues the railways newfound attitude of we don’t want your custom, we will carry on doing as we please. In which case you may as well hand the Leisure market over to the coaching industry and cut the number of GWR express services. There is currently a clear swing away from the commuter market to one more focused on leisure travel - no doubt boosted by the Staycation - the railways need to adapt to this to effectively survive.

As a Business idea, that isn’t bad. But in a post Covid market where the railways will need to boost their passenger numbers by catering for an increased leisure market, advising passengers to go by road won’t help.
 
Last edited:

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
effectively continues the railways newfound attitude of we don’t want your custom

It might just be that GWR don’t want the custom of the very, very few passengers who want to take their surfboards on an 80x service. Perhaps they are more trouble than they are worth?


In which case you may as well hand the Leisure market over to the coaching industry and cut the number of GWR express services

I don’t see how you can reach that conclusion, as I’m reasonably sure that the leisure market does not consist entirely of people who want to travel with surfboards. As I write my parents are on an 80x in the West Country for leisure, and have had no problem. Although they don’t have surfboards with them.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,162
It might just be that GWR don’t want the custom of the very, very few passengers who want to take their surfboards on an 80x service. Perhaps they are more trouble than they are worth?
Those customers may well just decide not to use the railway for anything and tell their contacts just how rubbish the service is.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
6,996
Those customers may well just decide not to use the railway for anything and tell their contacts just how rubbish the service is.
Yes, my feeling is that DfT are over fixated on a 'commuter railway' - when that market has just been topedoed and much of it not coming back. I doubt even the DfT staff are commuting...
Rapidly need to think of other people they can fill the seats with, surfers included.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Those customers may well just decide not to use the railway for anything and tell their contacts just how rubbish the service is.

Do people expect to be able to take surfboards on other transport? Certainly not for free via Air, for example.
 

Inthewest

Member
Joined
12 Feb 2020
Messages
93
Location
The West
Would you like to provide a source for this research? It would be good to know what questions were actually asked - too often any such surveys use leading questions.
I don't have any, but I'm thinking it was the national passenger survey? More than confident more people would prefer at seat services so they don't have to leave their belongings / small children or risk their seat being taken by someone else.
Also seems to be the latest trend in train vehicles lacking a shop, although admittedly, I don't know if the east coast sets have any. Assuming the new MML sets won't.
 

mailbyrail

Member
Joined
23 Dec 2010
Messages
356
Do people expect to be able to take surfboards on other transport? Certainly not for free via Air, for example.

Airlines won't take more than basic hand luggage for free, but sports equipment is normally clearly defined and welcome in the hold when prebooked.

I used to take a bicycle by train but have given up any idea, it's just too complicated and unreliable. Yes, it's free, but that's all that can be said for it.
It goes in the car every time now.

I've flown with a bicycle many times. The rules keep changing, but are relatively straightforward. Look on almost any airline booking web site and bicycles, surfboards, golf clubs, etc are welcome, but prebooked and paid for. Until covid, my bicycle was due to fly again this year, but that idea got canned. I don't have a surfboard but the same criteria would apply to my decision process.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top