SWR December 2022 Timetable Consultation

[Goldfish62]

It seems a bit hard to believe that they will continue to run the current reduced timetable until the end of next year; I'd imagine that demand would pick up certainly in the spring/summer next year enough to justify a return to something close to the standard 2004-onwards off-peak timetable. Maybe the peaks will be less busy due to enforced home working but the off-peak should surely return to close to the standard pattern of recent times?

Well indeed. What are they going to do with all the staff in the meantime for one thing?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Well indeed. What are they going to do with all the staff in the meantime for one thing?

By December 2022 they will just about have caught up with driver numbers. Think how many cancellations there are currently on some days due to traincrew shortages, factor in class 701 training and there aren’t vast amounts of traincrew sat doing nothing.

 

[Goldfish62]

By December 2022 they will just about have caught up with driver numbers. Think how many cancellations there are currently on some days due to traincrew shortages, factor in class 701 training and there aren’t vast amounts of traincrew sat doing nothing.

I assumed the majority of cancellations were due to the pingdemic rather than actual shortages. Is that not the case?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I assumed the majority of cancellations were due to the pingdemic rather than actual shortages. Is that not the case?

It’s worse in some locations than others, Salisbury in particular is very short of drivers aside from anything pingdemic related.

Training has been a huge issue the past year, and whilst that may improve there’s all the new 701 training.

 

[Goldfish62]

It’s worse in some locations than others, Salisbury in particular is very short of drivers aside from anything pingdemic related.

Training has been a huge issue the past year, and whilst that may improve there’s all the new 701 training.

And I suppose the 701 training will be lengthened due to train crew having to get used to the new working practices on these trains.

 

[pompeyfan]

And I suppose the 701 training will be lengthened due to train crew having to get used to the new working practices on these trains.

Very valid point actually. DOO training will take a few days each I would imagine on top of the traction course for 701s. At least they’ll be able to speed up desiro services with all those extra seconds they’ll gain from drivers releasing the doors though!

 

[Findlayjcf]

Can anyone clarify what will happen to the New Forest stations due to the proposed changes. I am specifically interested in the current vs proposed situation for Hinton Admiral. Thanks

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Can anyone clarify what will happen to the New Forest stations due to the proposed changes. I am specifically interested in the current vs proposed situation for Hinton Admiral. Thanks

No change at peak times and off peak instead of being a through stopping service from Waterloo albeit overtaken at least once it becomes a Southampton to Bournemouth shuttle.

 

[Findlayjcf]

No change at peak times and off peak instead of being a through stopping service from Waterloo albeit overtaken at least once it becomes a Southampton to Bournemouth shuttle.

Thanks and appreciated

 

[WesternBiker]

Vauxhall is presumably about people wishing to connect to the Victoria line not giving Vauxhall more trains as such.

Absolutely - it's easy to forget how important this interchange is.

Interestingly, on my (Wimbledon stopper) trains in the morning and evening recently, almost as many have alighted/joined at Vauxhall as Waterloo. This is borne out by the Underground station usage figures show Vauxhall had a 50% fall in passengers in 2020 against 2019 - compared with Waterloo's 80% decline - so the two stations were much more comparable.

I presume that is because a higher percentage of those changing at Waterloo would be heading for office jobs - and can work from home??

It seems a bit hard to believe that they will continue to run the current reduced timetable until the end of next year; I'd imagine that demand would pick up certainly in the spring/summer next year enough to justify a return to something close to the standard 2004-onwards off-peak timetable. Maybe the peaks will be less busy due to enforced home working but the off-peak should surely return to close to the standard pattern of recent times?

It is noticeably busier than a few weeks ago, but I think we're a long way from the new working patterns being formally established. My own office is consulting on this now - the most likely option being an official move to 3-day office working (different teams on different days) and 2-day home working. That gives the 60% commuter traffic SWR seem to be predicting. (And we have yet to see what happens to the pandemic this winter...)

 

[AverageTD]

Absolutely - it's easy to forget how important this interchange is.

Interestingly, on my (Wimbledon stopper) trains in the morning and evening recently, almost as many have alighted/joined at Vauxhall as Waterloo. This is borne out by the Underground station usage figures show Vauxhall had a 50% fall in passengers in 2020 against 2019 - compared with Waterloo's 80% decline - so the two stations were much more comparable.

I presume that is because a higher percentage of those changing at Waterloo would be heading for office jobs - and can work from home??



It is noticeably busier than a few weeks ago, but I think we're a long way from the new working patterns being formally established. My own office is consulting on this now - the most likely option being an official move to 3-day office working (different teams on different days) and 2-day home working. That gives the 60% commuter traffic SWR seem to be predicting. (And we have yet to see what happens to the pandemic this winter...)

One thing about commuting to Vauxhall is that season tickets, and I presume tickets in general, cost 30-40% less than going the extra mile in Waterloo.

 

[Watershed]

One thing about commuting to Vauxhall is that season tickets, and I presume tickets in general, cost 30-40% less than going the extra mile in Waterloo.

There is only a difference for stations within the Zones. Outwith the Zones, Vauxhall doesn't have point-to-point seasons and only has seasons as part of the London Terminals group.

 

[AverageTD]

There is only a difference for stations within the Zones. Outwith the Zones, Vauxhall doesn't have point-to-point seasons and only has seasons as part of the London Terminals group.

SW commuting still attracts a very significant amount of people coming from within zones.

 

[Bald Rick]

I presume that is because a higher percentage of those changing at Waterloo would be heading for office jobs - and can work from home??

It’s because longer distance commuting is still significantly down (below 30% of pre Covid), whereas shorter distance commuting has bounced back quickly (above 50%, much higher for some routes). And the longer distance trains to Waterloo don’t stop at Vauxhall.

 

[WesternBiker]

It’s because longer distance commuting is still significantly down (below 30% of pre Covid), whereas shorter distance commuting has bounced back quickly (above 50%, much higher for some routes). And the longer distance trains to Waterloo don’t stop at Vauxhall.

That's true - but I wonder what is driving that? If it starts to embed as a long term trend - even with some recovery - it will be very relevant to the discussions around timetabling.

 

[Bald Rick]

That's true - but I wonder what is driving that? If it starts to embed as a long term trend - even with some recovery - it will be very relevant to the discussions around timetabling.

Short distance commuters - on monthly season tickets in the range approx £150-£250 - are more likely to be in lower paid jobs and not to work in an office. Also, in the case of London, they are more likely not to own a car, and use the train for non-work purposes, eg seeing friends, going to the shops, etc., and this will keep buying a season ticket.

Long distance commuters - on monthly season tickets above £250 are more likely to be in higher paid jobs, most probably in the office, with longer journeys, along with a car at home and nearby shops / friends / entertainment accessible with it. They are thus more likely to find reasons to work at home and not travel by train.

Put simply, if you are paying £200/ month for a Zone 4 travelcard, you’ll have more reasons to keep buying one and travelling than if you are paying £630/ month for a Winchester - London travelcard.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Chris Loder MP West Dorset put the boot in at yesterdays Transport Committee over the SWR Timetable Consultation. Shapps didn't give much away about why certain operators are being tasked to do these reductions but as per this government has to spin a good news story that Okehampton is opening soon (so stop moaning). Bernadette Kelly (Permanent Secretary) did indicate that costs are key driver but they are looking at other factors and noted that now the department was much closer to the operators they could influence the outcome.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Chris Loder MP West Dorset put the boot in at yesterdays Transport Committee over the SWR Timetable Consultation. Shapps didn't give much away about why certain operators are being tasked to do these reductions but as per this government has to spin a good news story that Okehampton is opening soon (so stop moaning). Bernadette Kelly (Permanent Secretary) did indicate that costs are key driver but they are looking at other factors and noted that now the department was much closer to the operators they could influence the outcome.

Loder keeps on moaning about the worse frequency line in England claiming it to be the line between Yeovil and Weymouth. This route has nearly double the number of trains than the Whitby branch for example so he clearly hasn’t done his homework.

 

[swt_passenger]

Loder keeps on moaning about the worse frequency line in England claiming it to be the line between Yeovil and Weymouth. This route has nearly double the number of trains than the Whitby branch for example so he clearly hasn’t done his homework.

Is he also the “brains” behind the weird idea to run Weymouth to Waterloo via both Yeovils?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Is he also the “brains” behind the weird idea to run Weymouth to Waterloo via both Yeovils?

I believe it was his idea.

 

[47421]

Loder keeps on moaning about the worse frequency line in England claiming it to be the line between Yeovil and Weymouth. This route has nearly double the number of trains than the Whitby branch for example so he clearly hasn’t done his homework.

Bit harsh, at least he shows an interest

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Loder keeps on moaning about the worse frequency line in England claiming it to be the line between Yeovil and Weymouth. This route has nearly double the number of trains than the Whitby branch for example so he clearly hasn’t done his homework.

He didn't mention the route but presumed it was that one although Shapps thought any line with a 3 hour frequency wasn't good enough. Not aware of his moaning record but at least he tries to prize open the reasons why the consultations are happening on some routes and not others not that he got an answer.

 

[infobleep]

He didn't mention the route but presumed it was that one although Shapps thought any line with a 3 hour frequency wasn't good enough. Not aware of his moaning record but at least he tries to prize open the reasons why the consultations are happening on some routes and not others not that he got an answer.

It seems to be a policy of this government to not answer questions.

What is so wrong with answering this one?

 

[Bald Rick]

Bit harsh, at least he shows an interest

Given that he worked for SWR before he was elected, it’s difficult for him not to have an interest!

 

[Class 170101]

It seems to be a policy of this government to not answer questions.

What is so wrong with answering this one?

It seems to be a requirement of a politican not to answer the question.

 

[Class360/1]

It seems to be a requirement of a politican not to answer the question.

Yea, they have this annoying habit

 

[norbitonflyer]

An MP in the SWR area has secured a parliamentary debate on this consultation
South Western Railway proposed timetable changes - Early Day Motions - UK Parliament
which I understand will be debated this Friday

 

[baza585]

An MP in the SWR area has secured a parliamentary debate on this consultation
South Western Railway proposed timetable changes - Early Day Motions - UK Parliament
which I understand will be debated this Friday

Amusingly very few of the current signatories represent constituencies served by SWT.......

 

[infobleep]

Amusingly very few of the current signatories represent constituencies served by SWT.......

Well they are supporting their colleagues that are.....

 

[Bald Rick]

Amusingly very few of the current signatories represent constituencies served by SWT.......

It’s clearly something arranged by the LD three in Richmond (Transport spokesperson), Twickers and Surbs, and they have got much of the rest of the parliamentary party on board. Interestingly not Alistair Carmichael (Orkney & Shetland), nor Daisy Cooper (St Albans), who may be less than sympathetic given the current reduction in peak services on Thameslink.