SWR - Further Timetable Reductions from 17/1

[Bishopstone]

I thought it was ominous when the ‘key workers and school children’ narrative was reinstated. Midweek theatre and football goers are being nudged onto other modes, or into other plans, as I suspected.

 

[Fiyero]

I thought it was ominous when the ‘key workers and school children’ narrative was reinstated. Midweek theatre and football goers are being nudged onto other modes, or into other plans, as I suspected.

Or not being able to go! I have booked for the cast change of a show which is a Tuesday, based on the trains available at the time which I can still book. What are my rights if I book on of them now?

 

[Mainline421]

I know there's many factors involved and I usually try an see things from the TOC's side as well, but this timetable look almost to be designed to make through journeys as unpleasant as possible, it's almost as if they want to kill demand for rail travel! Look at some of the "connections" at Bournemouth for what are usually very well used through services!


Salisbury isn't much better with many involving a wait of over 25 minutes, and I really can't even see the point when you look at Journey Check this afternoon
Zero cancellations, zero short formed. Even if demand has significantly reduced, which certainly wasn't the case on the UK trains I have used today (all busy and on time to the minute) they could have reduced the service without splitting any routes.

 

[MontyP]

Am I reading it correctly that on weekdays from 17-Jan the last train out of Waterloo for Winchester and Southampton will be the 2235? That stuffs nearly everyone going to football matches in the evening.

Sat and Sun seem ok, thankfully.

Unfortunately from many years of travelling the country following my football team, it is clear that the timetables were never planned with supporters in mind even at the best of times.

 

[miklcct]

I know there's many factors involved and I usually try an see things from the TOC's side as well, but this timetable look almost to be designed to make through journeys as unpleasant as possible, it's almost as if they want to kill demand for rail travel! Look at some of the "connections" at Bournemouth for what are usually very well used through services!
View attachment 108656
View attachment 108655
Salisbury isn't much better with many involving a wait of over 25 minutes, and I really can't even see the point when you look at Journey Check this afternoon View attachment 108657
Zero cancellations, zero short formed. Even if demand has significantly reduced, which certainly wasn't the case on the UK trains I have used today (all busy and on time to the minute) they could have reduced the service without splitting any routes.

Total disaster on the Bournemouth route.

London - Bournemouth services down to once hourly.
Bournemouth - Poole services down to once hourly even in peak hours.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I know there's many factors involved and I usually try an see things from the TOC's side as well, but this timetable look almost to be designed to make through journeys as unpleasant as possible, it's almost as if they want to kill demand for rail travel! Look at some of the "connections" at Bournemouth for what are usually very well used through services!
View attachment 108656
View attachment 108655
Salisbury isn't much better with many involving a wait of over 25 minutes, and I really can't even see the point when you look at Journey Check this afternoon View attachment 108657
Zero cancellations, zero short formed. Even if demand has significantly reduced, which certainly wasn't the case on the UK trains I have used today (all busy and on time to the minute) they could have reduced the service without splitting any routes.

With cases and hospitalisations falling along with mood music, along with political chaos, its pretty well done deal that the current regulations won't be extended on 26th Jan and guidance on WFH will be dialled back or removed and they will have an inadequate service in place to respond. Also with 456's purportedly to be going off lease from next week as well they will presumably be limited into what level of response they can deliver now anyhow.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

With cases and hospitalisations falling along with mood music, along with political chaos, its pretty well done deal that the current regulations won't be extended on 26th Jan and guidance on WFH will be dialled back or removed and they will have an inadequate service in place to respond. Also with 456's purportedly to be going off lease from next week as well they will presumably be limited into what level of response they can deliver now anyhow.

The end lease date for the 456s hasn’t changed from early Feb so they can still be used from then. Today though has the full ‘current’ timetable with no short-forms and only a handful of 456s out and about.
With a cascade of a small number of extra 450s into the suburban area it doesn’t sound like there would be a problem.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The end lease date for the 456s hasn’t changed from early Feb so they can still be used from then. Today though has the full ‘current’ timetable with no short-forms and only a handful of 456s out and about.
With a cascade of a small number of extra 450s into the suburban area it doesn’t sound like there would be a problem.

Surely if they return to the service they are operating extremely well this week they will need more stock or will it just be done through more formation reductions. Reality is peak Omicron has passed and SWR have shown themselves very adept at delivering a very reliable service through this difficult period yet just when things are turning up again they drop the service down and this will lead to overcrowding. How quickly will they restore to this weeks timetable is unknown and given Treasury want the savings this could be for many months if not for ever.

 

[infobleep]

Surely if they return to the service they are operating extremely well this week they will need more stock or will it just be done through more formation reductions. Reality is peak Omicron has passed and SWR have shown themselves very adept at delivering a very reliable service through this difficult period yet just when things are turning up again they drop the service down and this will lead to overcrowding. How quickly will they restore to this weeks timetable is unknown and given Treasury want the savings this could be for many months if not for ever.

Well in the FAQs they say this.

We are closely monitoring the impact of Omicron, and will keep our timetable under constant review.

Train Timetable | South Western Railway

Our timetables can be downloaded direct to your computer or mobile phone, giving you easy access to the information wherever you are.

www.southwesternrailway.com

So if Omicron does down I would expect timetables to ramp up, especially if work at home guidance is not kept.

This assumes they were rubbing the right number of times before the work from home advice came in.

Obviously, even if fewer trains are needed, later trains are still useful.

one minor point, they could do with the timetables being before the buy tickets and other links that appear when viewing the mobile site. Those appear first and some might think that is all the info.

That would help blind and partially sighted people.

 

[Watershed]

So if Omicron does down I would expect timetables to ramp up, especially if work at home guidance is not kept.

Omicron cases have already peaked, and hospital figures are peaking now. It's all but guaranteed which direction things are heading - at least with this wave!

However, I would not be very hopeful as to the prospects of timetables ramping back up in a timely manner

 

[infobleep]

I see from next Monday South Western Railway are going from 1 fast train an hour off pe from Guildford to Clapham Junction to 3 fast trains an hour. x5, x22 and x32 followed by a 33 minute gap

In the reverse, it is 2 trains an hour vers current 1.

Selfishly I rather like this change

Last train is earlier from London which isn't so helpful but there might be a slow train that runs later.

Might be me but I can't find Woking to Waterloo from next Monday for Monday to Friday services. The last one of these usually runs to Guildford.

I've now located it under Alton and Basingstoke services. For weekends they have a separate Woking and Guildford timetable.

Omicron cases have already peaked, and hospital figures are peaking now. It's all but guaranteed which direction things are heading - at least with this wave!

However, I would not be very hopeful as to the prospects of timetables ramping back up in a timely manner

Well if it isbdue to Omircon then it should. Of course if there is something they are not telling us.........

 

[DavidKK]

Bizarrely the number of services to Farncombe has doubled to 2 per hour in each direction during the day. This was the usual frequency of operation until May 2021.

 

[TEW]

Bizarrely the number of services to Farncombe has doubled to 2 per hour in each direction during the day. This was the usual frequency of operation until May 2021.

Milford and Witley also double to 2tph Off Peak which is not only more than the December 2021 timetable but more frequent than pre-pandemic. I'd argue this timetable for the Portsmouth Direct line is better than the one that's been in operation since May 2021.

 

[30907]

Omicron cases have already peaked, and hospital figures are peaking now. It's all but guaranteed which direction things are heading - at least with this wave!

It is very encouraging news - but the question is - why have they peaked?
Has Plan B (plus the high degree of caution exercised over Christmas by many adults - I don't think this is purely anecdotal evidence), especially WFH, had an impact? Given that the care sector, the education sector, and hospitals (ie the places not WFH) are still reported to be seriously affected (let alone rail staff), I am not sure it is a natural peak.
In which case things may take longer to return to a more normal level.

(There is no doubt a vast thread on the Covid forum and I don't want this one to be side tracked.)

 

[Bessie]

Back to the timetable changes does this save the taxpayer any money? I assume there is no reliance on any overtime to be worked. Likewise 456 running/lease costs end. Anything else?

 

[Goldfish62]

Back to the timetable changes does this save the taxpayer any money? I assume there is no reliance on any overtime to be worked. Likewise 456 running/lease costs end. Anything else?

I think the 456s were going off lease in February anyway? In which case the savings can't be attributed to the timetable.

Obviously there will operating cost savings as fewer trains are running. However, the important thing is the impact on net costs, ie what also happens to revenue.

I think undoubtedly there will be revenue losses due to discretionary trips no longer being undertaken particularly in the evenings. Some users might be lost for good.

I guess the Treasury still considers though that the operating savings will be greater than any revenue loss.

 

[zoneking]

I note they have retimed all the Epsom trains, frequency stays the same.

 

[Xavi]

Indeed, the new service to Salisbury and Exeter is incredibly poor. Compulsory change and 20 min wait at Salisbury even at peak times. Only 2 hourly west of Salisbury with a gap in the evening of over 2.5 hrs at Honiton. This "joke" service cannot be sustainable for more than a few weeks surely? Revenue west of Salisbury will be decimated.

I will be driving a student annual season ticket holder into central Exeter from next week....

 

[Goldfish62]

Quick comparison of late evening service departures from Waterloo to Reading:

Mon-Fri: 21:20, 21:50, 22:50
Sat: 21:20, 21:50, 22:20, 22:50, 23:20, 23:50, 00:20
Sun: 21:08, 21:38, 22:08, 22:38, 23:08, 23:38

So a good night out in London to be had on Sat and Sun. Just don't bother on Fridays!

 

[pompeyfan]

There’s winners and losers all over the network, although the first train over the Netley line is now 2 hours later and does the stupid thing of terminating and starting back from Fratton. Also slowing trains from London to Portsmouth further which is frustrating for some, although as has been mentioned, the 1Pxx now call additionally at Farncombe and Clapham.

I wonder whether GWR would call 2V52 additionally at Swanwick, Netley and Woolston?

 

[Fiyero]

Quick comparison of late evening service departures from Waterloo to Reading:

Mon-Fri: 21:20, 21:50, 22:50
Sat: 21:20, 21:50, 22:20, 22:50, 23:20, 23:50, 00:20
Sun: 21:08, 21:38, 22:08, 22:38, 23:08, 23:38

So a good night out in London to be had on Sat and Sun. Just don't bother on Fridays!

I've made plans based on being able to get back from London (to Eastleigh) after 23:00. The last train is 22:09, I can get a 22:35 that will get me close enough that I can make arrangements but nothing at all later. Do I have any recourse? (I'd planned to get the 23:05 and always liked knowing I have the 23:35 as backup)

 

[infobleep]

Milford and Witley also double to 2tph Off Peak which is not only more than the December 2021 timetable but more frequent than pre-pandemic. I'd argue this timetable for the Portsmouth Direct line is better than the one that's been in operation since May 2021.

Shame the timetable is only temporary. Still there are opportunities next December to allow for such things when they amend the timetable.

From next Monday to Friday Guildford will have more services to Clapham Junction than Alton does. Currently I believe it's the other way round.

I've made plans based on being able to get back from London (to Eastleigh) after 23:00. The last train is 22:09, I can get a 22:35 that will get me close enough that I can make arrangements but nothing at all later. Do I have any recourse? (I'd planned to get the 23:05 and always liked knowing I have the 23:35 as backup)

Have you already purchase your train ticket?

 

[Fiyero]

Have you already purchase your train ticket?

I have for 28/01 and 01/02 through TrainPal - no warnings were given about changes, though I note if I go to SWR's journey planner there would have been a warning. I also intend to make the same trip 25/02 which I haven't booked yet.

 

[infobleep]

I have for 28/01 and 01/02 through TrainPal - no warnings were given about changes, though I note if I go to SWR's journey planner there would have been a warning. I also intend to make the same trip 25/02 which I haven't booked yet.

I'm not sure then. Someone with more fares knowledge might e able to help or you may be best starting a new thread in the fares forum.

 

[Goldfish62]

Having a very quick look at weekends the only change I can see is the withdrawal of all Hounslow loop services as per weekdays. Apart from that the timetables appear to remain as per Dec 2019.

Also the timetables are dated until 13th May.

Are there any other changes I've not noticed?

 

[PTR 444]

If there is anyone to benefit from this, I guess it will be the hotel industry which will see an increase in bookings from those who miss the last trains home.

 

[infobleep]

Having a very quick look at weekends the only change I can see is the withdrawal of all Hounslow loop services as per weekdays. Apart from that the timetables appear to remain as per Dec 2019.

Also the timetables are dated until 13th May.

Are there any other changes I've not noticed?

I don't think the post midnight Sundays only fast service from Waterloo to Guildford is running. Was that still running in December?

 

[lawried123]

Weekends now published. Reading line is unchanged, ie as per Pre-Covid.

The weekday Reading line timetable appears to be the same one as used in the three lockdowns and actually has more peak hour trains than now, but shuts up shop earlier because SWR don't want us going out at night.

Although the present service on the Reading line has a 1-hour gap in the middle of the evening when it's fairly quiet, the new timetable has the 2220 cancelled and a 1 hour gap between 2150 and 2250. The 22:20 was always very busy with people coming home from concerts and shows in London.

The other annoying feature is that the 2352 from Reading is now cancelled leaving the 2333 GWR train to Gatwick as the last train ex Reading. But this train still has the strange feature that it doesn't stop at Wokingham on Fridays. I've now just noticed that it is possible if I ever find myself in this position to catch this train to North Camp and come back to Wokingham. But if the return train is cancelled I'm stuck at North camp which is considerably worse than being stuck at Reading. And I bet my ticket wouldn't be valid to do that.

 

[Watershed]

I have for 28/01 and 01/02 through TrainPal - no warnings were given about changes, though I note if I go to SWR's journey planner there would have been a warning. I also intend to make the same trip 25/02 which I haven't booked yet.

The timetable in place at the time of booking is what is relevant in terms of your rights to alternative transport/accommodation, and delay compensation under NRCoT minima.

It is only the more generous Delay Repay entitlement normally available under the Passenger's Charter that is ostensibly determined by reference to the timetable in place at 10pm the night before.

 

[WesternBiker]

Indeed, the new service to Salisbury and Exeter is incredibly poor. Compulsory change and 20 min wait at Salisbury even at peak times. Only 2 hourly west of Salisbury with a gap in the evening of over 2.5 hrs at Honiton. This "joke" service cannot be sustainable for more than a few weeks surely? Revenue west of Salisbury will be decimated.

I am due to go to Gillingham (Dorset) next week, and the journey planners of both SWR and National Rail are not even showing the full service from Salisbury westwards as indicated in the pdf timetable.

The 17:20 ex Salisbury, on the timetable as from 17 January, has disappeared, and the journey planners are showing departures to Gillingham only at 15:20 and then 18:10. (It's similarly showing no trains to Honiton between 15:20 and 19:09 from Salisbury - see screenshot.) Presumably this is a mistake?