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SWT driver assessment

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tagzy

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18 Oct 2010
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Hi everyone,

I have an assessment to become a trainee driver for South West Trains and very much looking forward to it. I have flicked through the practice booklet just to get an idea of the tests they do and I have done some of the examples which are very straightforward so not too worried about that.

One thing that worries me though is in the letter inviting me to the tests, it says to go the SHL test website to practice. I have done SHL tests in the past and I find them EXTREMELY frustrating! Will there be an SHL test on the day? Or is it just a suggestion to get used to taking tests?

In the meantime I am going to properly go through the booklet and get some examples for the interview (which is done on the same day).

Good luck to anyone else attending!
 
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R

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congrats I haven't heard back yet for my application. did you apply for the recent tests and what depot?

I think they do use the SHL tests on the day the same as FCC do (dont quote me though)
 

tagzy

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74
Oh dear! I hope they don't pop up!

Yeah I applied about a month ago I think and I've applied to Waterloo.
 

ungreat

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What is an shl test?

Never did any of those..old school driver lol

Waterloo..my first depot!!
 

455/8

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15 Nov 2005
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146
Just so you know the booklet they give you doesn't really tell you much about the assessment day or the process of recruitment you will under go, below is what it was like for me when I took my assessments and interviews back in 2008/09.

On the day of your assessments you will be in a group of around 5 people and you will start by having 3 written tests, which will be a reading/writing test (like the one from the booklet), the dials test (like the one from the booklet) and a communications test (basically listen to a tape recording twice and make notes about what is being said then pass on that message to the assessor getting the major points across). Once you've completed these tests you will be taken into another room for the computer tests, you start off by being logged in to the system and if I remember correctly you will do the dots test first then the reaction test. Before all that however you'll get chance to have a couple of practice tests first (my advice here is make sure the keyboard, headphones, pedals and monitor are all working correctly because once you start the tests you can't stop or retake them even if one of these bits start playing up, you will suffer for it i know of 2 people that failed this part because they didn't try out the equipment first they just jumped right into it thinking they were going to pass). Once completed you will be sent into the waiting room while your tests are scored and your results processed, you will then be called in individually to be told your results by your assessor and if successful you will be sent home and you will be sent a letter informing you of when you will have your interviews and if you don't meet the grade you will be told which part you failed on.

As I said above your Interviews (if you pass the assessments) will be carried out on a separate day (normally a week or so after you assessments), you will first be greeted by a member of recruitment and taken into a room where you will be greeted by a manager which can be either a depot manager or a Driver Standards manager (DSM for short) who may or may not be your future manager, I was going for a position at woking and was interviewed by the depot manager at strawberry hill so it could be anyone, it depends on which manager is on duty that day, both the manager and the member of recruitment will in turn ask you questions from there book and both write down what you answer and how you answer their questions. Once you have finished this interview you will be sent back in to the waiting room where you will wait to be called in by another member of recruitment and taken in to another room where you are given a booklet with some questions to answer and I think you get 5-10 minutes to fill out this booklet, after the time has expired you will then hand the booklet back to the assessor, this assessor will then read the booklet and ask you questions about what you have put. I believe this interview lasts about an hour and a half depending on your answers. Finally once you've completed both interviews you will be sent home where you have to wait for either a letter to come through the post or a phone call from recruitment to tell you how you did in the interviews and if your successful you'll be given a date for a medical which once passed you'll then have to wait for yet another letter but this last letter is the one you'll be screaming at the postman for because this letter will tell you if you passed the medical or not and if you did it will tell you your start date.

Hope that gives you a bit more of an insight into what to expect on the day a i said this is what I experienced back when i took mine in 2008 so should still be the same.

Good luck with it all,

Alan
 

TDK

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Just to add, in the medical you will have an eye test, ear test, colour blindness test, ECG, blood pressure, blood test for both drugs, alcohol and diabetes. You will also be asked if you have taken any prescribed or off the shelf drugs, it is important that you answer this question accurately, I have seen many fail the medical the ratio is about 1 in 4 so before you go through all these tests it may be a good idea to get your eyes tested, test for colour blindness and get your ears syringed.

For the drugs and alcohol test, don't drink 24 hours before the medical and if you have smoked any canabis in the last 4 - 6 months don't even bother applying
 

tagzy

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18 Oct 2010
Messages
74
Thanks for that insight 455/8.

I do believe the interview is now on the same day. Even more to worry about! At least it will all be taken care of with one trip though (except medical of course).

ungreat: SHL are a company that provide aptitude tests and they are impossibly difficult!
 

ghost

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15 May 2010
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42
Hi, has anyone heard back from SWT for waterloo trainee driver positions?

Applied about 3-4 weeks ago, cheers
 

E&W Lucas

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SHL are a company that provide aptitude tests and they are impossibly difficult!

Interesting that you say that. The whole testing regime is under review at the moment, with the RSSB working on a new battery of tests that better reflect today's driving role.

Evidently too many people are passing the tests, only to be found wanting in training, or very soon after it. One wonders if the cottage industry of coaching people to pass the tests is contributing to that?
 

GB

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The whole testing thing needs looking at from the ground up in my opinion. As Ive always maintained, passing the tests do not mean that someone is some how automatically capable of being a driver and I imagine the reverse is also true.

The two strikes and your out rule is also obsurd and good people are being rejected because of it.

The ideal way is to bring back the old secondman concept and promote within.

One wonders if the cottage industry of coaching people to pass the tests is contributing to that?

I don't really see the problem with it to be honest. You wouldn't expect to take your driving tests without a bit of research, practice and helpfull hints. At the end of the day it is still up to the individual on the day to get through them.
 

E&W Lucas

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The ideal way is to bring back the old secondman concept and promote within.

Whatever for? Drivers have been trained intensively for about 20 years. There is nothing for a second man to do with modern traction. There is also no shortage of quality candidates for driving, who are capable of learning the job from cold in 12 months. Promotion from within would rule many of them out, as they tend to already have good jobs, and would not be in the market for the other roles in the industry.


The two strikes rule keeps the number of applicants down, and applies at all stages of the training process.
 

anonymous0101

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The whole testing thing needs looking at from the ground up in my opinion. As Ive always maintained, passing the tests do not mean that someone is some how automatically capable of being a driver and I imagine the reverse is also true.

The two strikes and your out rule is also obsurd and good people are being rejected because of it.

The ideal way is to bring back the old secondman concept and promote within.



I don't really see the problem with it to be honest. You wouldn't expect to take your driving tests without a bit of research, practice and helpfull hints. At the end of the day it is still up to the individual on the day to get through them.

GB, how many attempts have you had at the train driver assessment process?
 

GB

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One. Passed all the psychometrics including all the extras I had to do but fell short on the structured interview. OK so the secondman concept may not be suited to passenger work, but it fits nicely with freight.
 

anonymous0101

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One. Passed all the psychometrics including all the extras I had to do but fell short on the structured interview. OK so the secondman concept may not be suited to passenger work, but it fits nicely with freight.

I'm sure when you get the job second time around, that you'll feel its a great achievement. Its something many aspire to be but most will not achieve myself included.
 

ungreat

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Whatever for? Drivers have been trained intensively for about 20 years. There is nothing for a second man to do with modern traction. There is also no shortage of quality candidates for driving, who are capable of learning the job from cold in 12 months. Promotion from within would rule many of them out, as they tend to already have good jobs, and would not be in the market for the other roles in the industry.


The two strikes rule keeps the number of applicants down, and applies at all stages of the training process.

Totally disagree.As a secondman you learned practically,and not from a frigging book.Theres NO subsitute for experience

You dont learn a drivers job in 12 months cold from a training course...not possible as when you are on your own and it goes tits up,no book can prepare you for the inevitable **** that follows..only experience..and where better to get that than shadowing experienced drivers for a few years?

There are some outstanding off the street drivers,but most trainees say they would have benefitted from more hands on as a secondman experience.Sorry,but I think you are completely and totally wrong on that point
 

E&W Lucas

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There are some outstanding off the street drivers,but most trainees say they would have benefitted from more hands on as a secondman

But that's an argument from from over 10 years ago; it's precisely what greeted those of us that came in at the start of "off the street". A decade on, we're still here, and the system is still working.

More knowledge would obviously be nice, but it's a balancing act. There's no way the companies are going to pay for someone to be in a non - productive job for 3 - 5 years, and there's no way most of the trainees could afford to do so either. Secondmen did their growing up on the job as well. Today's trainees have done that already, and most are already accustomed to responsibility.

The clock isn't going to get turned back, and if we did, we'd loose some of the best people that come into the industry. As you have said, there are some excellent "off the street" drivers. The idea of the changes seems to be to ensure that such candidates are the only ones to get through the selection, and that's a good thing all round.
 

tagzy

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18 Oct 2010
Messages
74
So who was there today then? The tests weren't so bad although I was expecting to be doing all the tests. We did the TRP tests not the safety ones. Some were offered to come back as soon as Friday provided they passed the tests today. Just waiting for the letter to find out how I did.
 

notadriver

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I tend to agree with E&W Lucas. Back in the days of Secondmen i think it was easier to get that position and wages were much lower then. Now wages are much higher and with so many candidates a gruelling assessment process including a much harder structured interview means only the best get through. As for experience in the old days you fixed it. I think nowadays you do what control tells you.
 

rax

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16 Dec 2010
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3
Just so you know the booklet they give you doesn't really tell you much about the assessment day or the process of recruitment you will under go, below is what it was like for me when I took my assessments and interviews back in 2008/09.

On the day of your assessments you will be in a group of around 5 people and you will start by having 3 written tests, which will be a reading/writing test (like the one from the booklet), the dials test (like the one from the booklet) and a communications test (basically listen to a tape recording twice and make notes about what is being said then pass on that message to the assessor getting the major points across). Once you've completed these tests you will be taken into another room for the computer tests, you start off by being logged in to the system and if I remember correctly you will do the dots test first then the reaction test. Before all that however you'll get chance to have a couple of practice tests first (my advice here is make sure the keyboard, headphones, pedals and monitor are all working correctly because once you start the tests you can't stop or retake them even if one of these bits start playing up, you will suffer for it i know of 2 people that failed this part because they didn't try out the equipment first they just jumped right into it thinking they were going to pass). Once completed you will be sent into the waiting room while your tests are scored and your results processed, you will then be called in individually to be told your results by your assessor and if successful you will be sent home and you will be sent a letter informing you of when you will have your interviews and if you don't meet the grade you will be told which part you failed on.

As I said above your Interviews (if you pass the assessments) will be carried out on a separate day (normally a week or so after you assessments), you will first be greeted by a member of recruitment and taken into a room where you will be greeted by a manager which can be either a depot manager or a Driver Standards manager (DSM for short) who may or may not be your future manager, I was going for a position at woking and was interviewed by the depot manager at strawberry hill so it could be anyone, it depends on which manager is on duty that day, both the manager and the member of recruitment will in turn ask you questions from there book and both write down what you answer and how you answer their questions. Once you have finished this interview you will be sent back in to the waiting room where you will wait to be called in by another member of recruitment and taken in to another room where you are given a booklet with some questions to answer and I think you get 5-10 minutes to fill out this booklet, after the time has expired you will then hand the booklet back to the assessor, this assessor will then read the booklet and ask you questions about what you have put. I believe this interview lasts about an hour and a half depending on your answers. Finally once you've completed both interviews you will be sent home where you have to wait for either a letter to come through the post or a phone call from recruitment to tell you how you did in the interviews and if your successful you'll be given a date for a medical which once passed you'll then have to wait for yet another letter but this last letter is the one you'll be screaming at the postman for because this letter will tell you if you passed the medical or not and if you did it will tell you your start date.

Hope that gives you a bit more of an insight into what to expect on the day a i said this is what I experienced back when i took mine in 2008 so should still be the same.

Good luck with it all,

Alan
Hi Alan (455/8)

Was hoping for a bit of advice, still waiting for letter to say if i've got passed the first stages of my application but in the mean time i'm trying to look at websites that could aid me while I practice. I live near woking depot so any help and advice would be grateful.
Thank in advance Rax, beer on me if I get a chance to see you.
 

455/8

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Messages
146
The best thing I can say is if you have still not recived a letter give recruitment a call and ask them, they should be able to tell you if a letter has been sent out and if you've passed. Which Depot have you applied for?

As for the assesments the best thing to practice with is to get hold of a copy of the How 2 Become cd's. Before I applied I brought one and had a look at it and it helped me to fill out the application and prepare for the tests. There is a website that you can take tests of the same type that you'd expect as on the day. The only test you can't really prepare for is the reaction & Coordination test and the best thing I found was to play things like bop it or even things like rock band or guitar hero games that you have to match colours on a screen I found that the drums are the best as you are using your hands and feet at the same time but it may not work for you its something you have to find out for your self.
 
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has anyone who has applied for Fratton heard back from SWT yet? I've been told I will be contacted shortly but that was about 6 weeks ago. I thought they might have said something when I rang them, as I told them I had an drivers assessment pass already but they said they will look into that if I pass the application stage...
 

rax

New Member
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16 Dec 2010
Messages
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The best thing I can say is if you have still not recived a letter give recruitment a call and ask them, they should be able to tell you if a letter has been sent out and if you've passed. Which Depot have you applied for?

As for the assesments the best thing to practice with is to get hold of a copy of the How 2 Become cd's. Before I applied I brought one and had a look at it and it helped me to fill out the application and prepare for the tests. There is a website that you can take tests of the same type that you'd expect as on the day. The only test you can't really prepare for is the reaction & Coordination test and the best thing I found was to play things like bop it or even things like rock band or guitar hero games that you have to match colours on a screen I found that the drums are the best as you are using your hands and feet at the same time but it may not work for you its something you have to find out for your self.
Hello mate,

Firstly thanks for getting back to me. I’ve applied to Staines Depot and have done all the things you have suggested bar guitar hero and rock band. I’ve called them a few times and they have said they are still going though all the application.

It’s a shame that Woking depot is not up for grabs as I feel the lads over there seem like a great friendly bunch. The one thing I’m trying to figure out is what the pass mark is for the exams. Alan thanks again for getting back to me so quickly, cheers fella, I owe you a beer.
Rax
 

alsealey

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12 Jan 2011
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I've got an assessment day for SWT next week and I've been trying to prepare by doing some psychometric tests etc and studying the booklet they gave me. Does anyone know if they are currently doing Group Bourdon Dots or the SCAAT shapes test? I've had a go and both so I'm trying to prepare but previous posts have said it'll be shapes not dots? Does anyone have experience of a recent assessment day with SWT who can let me know? Oh and do the Mechanical Reasoning tests involve any tricky maths questions ie square root, area calcuations etc or is it mainly levers, pulleys etc. I'm really keen to give it a good go and be as prepared as I can.

Thanks for your help.
 

tagzy

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I don't know what the SCAAT test is but the SWT tests are as follows;

On the first assessment day at Basingstoke you will do group bourdon dots, the dials and cables test (don't know actual name!) and a test where you listen to and read about a subject related to the rail industry and you will have to answer questions on what you heard/read.

If you pass that, the second day at Watford consists of verbal communication exercise, reaction and coordination test and competency based interview.

There is no mechanical comprehension test.

I have just been through the assessments and passed all. Currently waiting for date for my line managers interview.

Good luck!
 

313103

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I tend to agree with E&W Lucas. Back in the days of Secondmen i think it was easier to get that position and wages were much lower then. Now wages are much higher and with so many candidates a gruelling assessment process including a much harder structured interview means only the best get through. As for experience in the old days you fixed it. I think nowadays you do what control tells you.

I tend to disagree with your statement regarding 'means only the best get through' There are Drivers i have worked with that i wouldn't put in charge of a tesco trolley, and there are other members of staff who have failed that i would trust my life with. The reason being is that someone can be very clever at reading books and assimilate it parrot fashion, as well as understanding how the test works, that get through and when put in charge of driving a train all the training in the world wont prepare them for what they have to do.

In the same light i have known a hell of a lot of people who have failed the tests, some on the structured interview and some on a dubious decision of a Driver manager. Of course what tends to happen when this takes place the member of staff gets embittered, often becoming unreliable, takes everything that happens on a personal level and quite often after a period of time the member of staff resigns from the service.
 

alsealey

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I don't know what the SCAAT test is but the SWT tests are as follows;

On the first assessment day at Basingstoke you will do group bourdon dots, the dials and cables test (don't know actual name!) and a test where you listen to and read about a subject related to the rail industry and you will have to answer questions on what you heard/read.

If you pass that, the second day at Watford consists of verbal communication exercise, reaction and coordination test and competency based interview.

There is no mechanical comprehension test.

I have just been through the assessments and passed all. Currently waiting for date for my line managers interview.

Good luck!

Thanks Tagzy, I guess I'll practice the dots a couple more times. I've only been given one date so far and I thought all the tests were done on the same day at Basingstoke and you left if you failed one. Did you know in advance there were two different dates? I suppose I've got to get past the first day before I think about the second one. I'll go in as prepared as I can and see what happens. Thanks for your advice. Wish me luck!!
 

tagzy

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The first say isn't too testing. As long as you're calm and confident, think you'll do fine. I also thought all the tests including the interview were done all at once. On the first day you get a chance to do all the tests, no one is sent home early for failing. On the second day however if you fail a test before the interview, you go home with no chance to attempt the remaining assessments.

I would advise that even though you haven't got through the first day yet, I would start to prepare for the structured interview now. You need to get some good examples together and make sure they are stuff you can elaborate on in depth. I believe there are some threads on here with good examples of the questions you may be asked (please don't ask me for the exact questions as I don't believe I'm in a position to tell you).

All the best mate, we're rooting for you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I tend to disagree with your statement regarding 'means only the best get through' There are Drivers i have worked with that i wouldn't put in charge of a tesco trolley, and there are other members of staff who have failed that i would trust my life with. The reason being is that someone can be very clever at reading books and assimilate it parrot fashion, as well as understanding how the test works, that get through and when put in charge of driving a train all the training in the world wont prepare them for what they have to do.

In the same light i have known a hell of a lot of people who have failed the tests, some on the structured interview and some on a dubious decision of a Driver manager. Of course what tends to happen when this takes place the member of staff gets embittered, often becoming unreliable, takes everything that happens on a personal level and quite often after a period of time the member of staff resigns from the service.

As in my previous post I have mentioned I have just passed all the tests bar the manager's interview. I must say I have done many similar selection tests and those that they use for train driving now are very comprehensive and relevant. In many tests and interviews I have done, they are not so interested in your ability to actually DO the job, more so in in your ability to be politically correct and bend-over to management. Train driver selection was very much a breath of fresh air, and glad to see some real tests that push you and really test the abilities God gave you.

It goes without saying though that passing the tests doesn't mean you will be good at driving. If I am lucky enough to get offered a place, I certainly won't be turning up with my nose in the air just because I passed stringent testing. I think the training will be the biggest test of all. These assessments merely give everyone a fair opportunity. I don't know exactly what a secondman does (or did), but if it isn't actually driving a train, then what qualifies him to do so?
 

notadriver

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I tend to disagree with your statement regarding 'means only the best get through' There are Drivers i have worked with that i wouldn't put in charge of a tesco trolley, and there are other members of staff who have failed that i would trust my life with. The reason being is that someone can be very clever at reading books and assimilate it parrot fashion, as well as understanding how the test works, that get through and when put in charge of driving a train all the training in the world wont prepare them for what they have to do.

In the same light i have known a hell of a lot of people who have failed the tests, some on the structured interview and some on a dubious decision of a Driver manager. Of course what tends to happen when this takes place the member of staff gets embittered, often becoming unreliable, takes everything that happens on a personal level and quite often after a period of time the member of staff resigns from the service.

I don't mean to be rude but when I was a guard I wouldn't presume to judge whether the driver was fit be in charge of a train or just a Tesco's trolley! I think that sort of attitude is extremely arrogant.
 

alsealey

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Messages
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Hi Tagzy
Thanks again for your help. I'll give it my best shot. Could you tell me if the Group Bourdon is likely to be on a computer or pen and paper, I've practiced both? Getting a bit nervous now, I really want this but all I can do is my best and hope it's enough to get me past the first stage!
 
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