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T & W Metro reducing services on 29 Nov. Not enough drivers!!

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The Tyne and Wear Metro is to operate a reduced frequency winter timetable while it catches up with driver training schools that were halted earlier this year due to lockdown.

Nexus, the public body which owns and manages Metro, will introduce the new timetable from Sunday 29 November and it will remain in place until March 2021.

Customers will still have access to a good level of service frequency across the network, say Nexus, with trains every seven minutes on weekdays from 7am to 6pm through Newcastle city centre and Gateshead.

Training across the UK rail industry was unable to take place during the first lockdown because national assessment centres that put candidates through the mandatory aptitude tests had to be closed.

This has impacted on the availability of Metro train crews, which is why a winter timetable is needed while 30 new recruits who started in September go through the six-month driver training school - the largest single intake since Metro began in 1980.
This is appalling for us. The historic Town of South Shields with 75,000 population,+ Jarrow & Hebburn will be reduced to a half hour Sunday service. Sunderland & South Hylton service similarly affected. That is not a metro service. These towns/City are 10 -15 miles, through densely populated areas, from major Regional Hospital, RVI in Newcastle.

I understand that they have lost drivers to the main line companies, but I put this down to poor & slow recruitment management.
Their training programme last 6 months. Our Careers Forum says that their current recruitment drive started on 12 April 2019. So why were these drivers not recruited & trained by March 2020? A big question.
 
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Scotrail314209

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This is appalling for us. The historic Town of South Shields with 75,000 population,+ Jarrow & Hebburn will be reduced to a half hour Sunday service. Sunderland & South Hylton service similarly affected. That is not a metro service. These towns/City are 10 -15 miles, through densely populated areas, from major Regional Hospital, RVI in Newcastle.
I understand that they have lost drivers to the main line companies, but I put this down to poor & slow recruitment management.
Their training programme last 6 months. Our Careers Forum says that their current recruitment drive started on 12 April 2019. So why were these drivers not recruited & trained by March 2020? A big question.

I am disappointed that my post has been moved to the lesser read Light Rail, Metro & Trams thread.
I wanted a General Rail Discussion on how & why passengers are offered a poorer service by incompetant management.

That is shocking... the Tyne and Wear Metro is a Metro service. Every 30 minutes on a Sunday isn't a Metro service... is the frequency staying the same on weekdays or is that being reduced?
 

Bletchleyite

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That is shocking... the Tyne and Wear Metro is a Metro service. Every 30 minutes on a Sunday isn't a Metro service... is the frequency staying the same on weekdays or is that being reduced?

The T&W Metro is basically a light rail version of Merseyrail. Merseyrail operates half-hourly on Sundays (indeed it's operating half hourly all week at the moment due to the same issue).
 

craigybagel

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This is appalling for us. The historic Town of South Shields with 75,000 population,+ Jarrow & Hebburn will be reduced to a half hour Sunday service. Sunderland & South Hylton service similarly affected. That is not a metro service. These towns/City are 10 -15 miles, through densely populated areas, from major Regional Hospital, RVI in Newcastle.
I understand that they have lost drivers to the main line companies, but I put this down to poor & slow recruitment management.
Their training programme last 6 months. Our Careers Forum says that their current recruitment drive started on 12 April 2019. So why were these drivers not recruited & trained by March 2020? A big question.

I am disappointed that my post has been moved to the lesser read Light Rail, Metro & Trams thread.
I wanted a General Rail Discussion on how & why passengers are offered a poorer service by incompetant management.
I'm not sure if you're aware, but there's been a worldwide pandemic for most of 2020. It means that training new drivers has been extremely difficult. It also means that fewer existing drivers are available to operate services.

Looking through the news story, it seems like they're trying to run as frequent a service as possible on weekdays, which seems eminently sensible. Whilst a 30 minute service on a Sunday is indeed low for a self proclaimed metro, with the country in lockdown and all non essential travel banned, how much more of a service do you really need to run on a Sunday?
 

bramling

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The T&W Metro is basically a light rail version of Merseyrail. Merseyrail operates half-hourly on Sundays (indeed it's operating half hourly all week at the moment due to the same issue).

Merseyrail has the option to lengthen its formations on a Sunday to offset the frequency reduction, something T&W can’t do.

However people need to be realistic about this - if the driver numbers aren’t there then difficult choices will have to be made, and Sunday is no doubt the lesser of evils. Most of the rail industry is in the same boat with regard to staff availability - with training having been so badly disrupted this year there’s going to be a backlog, and it’s going to last for some time to come. The biggest problem would be if suddenly life goes back to normal, as it isn’t going to be easily possible to flick a switch and restore 2019 service levels.
 

OxtedL

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A service every 24 minutes on Saturday is... unexpected. Must be fun to timetable through Sunderland
 

markydh

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A service every 24 minutes on Saturday is... unexpected. Must be fun to timetable through Sunderland
Not really. It’s just every other service being cancelled, given the normal frequency is every 12 minutes. They ran to the same frequency and timetable throughout the first lockdown.
 

OxtedL

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Ah of course, doh.
 

kez19

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Whenever I have ventured to Newcastle I do use the Metro its handy as well as the bus services,

Found more info here: https://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/...ble-due-driver-training-being-halted-lockdown

The Metro winter timetable:

• Monday – Friday: A 15-30 minute service 5am-7am; A 15 minute service 7am-6pm (which means a train every 7 minutes between South Gosforth and Pelaw); A 20 minute service 6pm until the end of the day.

• Saturdays: A 15-30 minute service 5am-9am; A 24 minute service 9am-6pm (which means a train every 12 minutes between South Gosforth and Pelaw); A 15-30 minute service from 6pm until the end of the day.

• Sundays: A 30 minute service all day (which means a train every 15 minutes between South Gosforth and Pelaw).



On site it also states:

Metro Operations Director, Chris Carson, said: “Reducing services is the last thing that we want to do, and it’s not a decision that we take lightly, but training has been so severely impacted by lockdown that we need to implement a winter timetable.

“I apologise in advance for the inconvenience this is going to cause to our customers.

“The reality is that train crew availability is lower than what we need it to be. The extra staff that we were due to bring in were unable to go through the required aptitude tests when national assessment centres were closed in March.

“Since the testing centres re-opened in August we do now have a record number of new drivers in training. These training schools got underway in September and they will take six months to complete.

“Customers will still have access to a good level of frequency across the network. On busier weekdays between 7am and 6pm the timetable will not differ that much from what we currently have in place, and in our busy central corridor through Newcastle and Gateshead there will be trains every seven minutes.

“Once we complete the current driver training schools we aim to revert back to a full timetable in the Spring.”

As I don't stay in Newcastle Nexus does seem to say (the way I have read it), seems to be a sort of reduced service over winter but sort of normal by Spring (of course there is no month stated)
 

rg177

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The first cohort of 10 drivers were in the learning centre by the middle of September meaning that as we enter Spring services should head back towards normal levels- hopefully coinciding with life starting to head towards normal.

The general off peak frequency on Saturdays seems to be 12/12/12/24 which generally is adequate. The key footfall times at Central for example seem to be around 0700-0930 and 1430-1730. Between those times it can be exceptionally quiet even there on weekdays. Weekdays seem to be every 12-18 minutes on each line.

Sundays, a 30 minute frequency on each line in the current circumstances may seem low but its pretty much all that's warranted considering weekend passenger footfall.
 
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Paul_10

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The Sunderland line I imagine is not particularly busy on Sundays(especially the Park Lane to South Hylton section) to start off with.

Pandemic aside, metro was always planning to reduce services due to poor train reliability to start off with, it's just COVID has added an additional reason behind it.

The cynic in me will suggest we won't return to a full timetable in Spring and the continuation of less peak trains will continue.
 
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I'm not sure if you're aware, but there's been a worldwide pandemic for most of 2020. It means that training new drivers has been extremely difficult. It also means that fewer existing drivers are available to operate services.

Looking through the news story, it seems like they're trying to run as frequent a service as possible on weekdays, which seems eminently sensible. Whilst a 30 minute service on a Sunday is indeed low for a self proclaimed metro, with the country in lockdown and all non essential travel banned, how much more of a service do you really need to run on a Sunday?
I have sympathy & understanding for the difficulty in training new drivers since March.
However my question for discussion was why they had not been trained by then??
Recruitment started in April 2019 giving a total of 11 months for that and the 6 months training before the pandemic struck us all.
No efficient even safety critical business would take so long.
Management have questions to answer.
 

TC60054

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I have sympathy & understanding for the difficulty in training new drivers since March.
However my question for discussion was why they had not been trained by then??
Recruitment started in April 2019 giving a total of 11 months for that and the 6 months training before the pandemic struck us all.
No efficient even safety critical business would take so long.
Management have questions to answer.
It is entirely possible for more drivers to be leaving for the railway than are coming in through training, coupled with those long term sick, etc....
 

craigybagel

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It is entirely possible for more drivers to be leaving for the railway than are coming in through training, coupled with those long term sick, etc....
Exactly this. I would suspect that when the recruitment campaign was started in 2019, it was run at a pace that would keep up with the normal rate of staff turnover. But now they're in a situation where it's both taking longer to get people from initial application all the way to qualified productive driver, and also there are much more drivers off sick/self isolating because of Covid - leaving a shortfall.
 

jkkne

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I think the public will accept this over the current farce of waiting to see on twitter the night before which services are cancelled due to driver shortages.

One fairly likely breakdown on a weekend or the now regular points failure and you’re talking an hour frequency and most of the metro network has a comparatively fairly awful bus provision (ironically thanks to Metro)

Believe current numbers are at 40% on average vs pre covid, a little higher at peak due to schools.

Nexus are woefully incompetent but this seems the right call in the current circumstances.
 

Scott M

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I think the public will accept this over the current farce of waiting to see on twitter the night before which services are cancelled due to driver shortages.

One fairly likely breakdown on a weekend or the now regular points failure and you’re talking an hour frequency and most of the metro network has a comparatively fairly awful bus provision (ironically thanks to Metro)

Believe current numbers are at 40% on average vs pre covid, a little higher at peak due to schools.

Nexus are woefully incompetent but this seems the right call in the current circumstances.
Agree with this. Would prefer a timetable they can stick to over an unrealistic one with rafts of cancellations.
 

MoleStation

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This is so remindful of when BR tried to rundown the Tyneside rail system
The Metro 'idea' kept that suburban network as a viable idea, and it worked. Now it seems they, someone, are trying to destroy it yet again
Agenda?
 

ModernRailways

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Exactly this. I would suspect that when the recruitment campaign was started in 2019, it was run at a pace that would keep up with the normal rate of staff turnover. But now they're in a situation where it's both taking longer to get people from initial application all the way to qualified productive driver, and also there are much more drivers off sick/self isolating because of Covid - leaving a shortfall.

Not at all, Metro were drastically short and they had to play catch up to begin with. Drivers were being poached by TPE, and quite a few drivers are now being poached by First Group again for the new East Coast open access they're going to be doing.
Metro and the incompetent management then realised the sh*t had hit the fan and they were going to have to reduce timetables, this happened with train cancellations almost daily due to lack of train crew. We have had train cancellations throughout Covid due to lack of train crew and it's not all been down to Covid. A lot of the new drivers who have been getting passed out have had errors because the training is very much a case of blast through it to pass the exams and be in service. They aren't teaching new colleagues correctly and it's showing, e.g INDUSI applications are occurring far more frequently than they should be.
They have had to ramp up and put more train crew into training, which has also resulted in larger cohorts of new employees in one group.
This is nothing against any of my train crew colleagues, it isn't there fault.

The same can be said for the Revenue staff. Most of the revenue staff are brand new because the staff turnover is incredible, the training for revenue staff is however only one week so it's significantly easier to push new staff out.
 

cuccir

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This is so remindful of when BR tried to rundown the Tyneside rail system
The Metro 'idea' kept that suburban network as a viable idea, and it worked. Now it seems they, someone, are trying to destroy it yet again
Agenda?
No, a reduced service for 4 months, which includes Christmas/New Year, during a pandemic, for a pretty well-explained reason. It may not reflect well on Nexus particularly, but equally they would be criticized for spending too much if they had a surplus of drivers at any time.

There is no reason for Nexus or any of the Tyne and Wear authorities to want to run down the Metro. It is a source of income, of prestige, and it drives the local economy.
 

DB

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What do they pay their drivers compared to mainline companies? If it's significanty lower that would explain a difficulty with retention.
 

Paul_10

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What do they pay their drivers compared to mainline companies? If it's significanty lower that would explain a difficulty with retention.

No doubt it is lower but come on, we are comparing apples with oranges here, if metro drivers expect to be on similar to a mainline company, then there heads are in the clouds. The comparison I can make is a shop worker who works for an independent shop expecting to be on the same amount as someone who works in Tesco's even if the job roles are similar, it just would never work that way.

I don't think it's all down to money though, there are serious issues going on behind the scenes going by posts being made online from current and former staff members. And it has affected the service the passengers get and has done for the past 10 years and when you think things could not get any lower, then they do.

Not to worry, some nice shiny new trains are on their way and that will make everything better :rolleyes: There will be a shambles coming up in the next few years regarding these with late delivery, behind the scenes chaos with training and so on, I expect some of the current fleet to still be in service after 2025. In fairness in Britain, we are terrible getting new trains in service when they are planned too and the metro will be no exception.
 

DB

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No doubt it is lower but come on, we are comparing apples with oranges here, if metro drivers expect to be on similar to a mainline company, then there heads are in the clouds. The comparison I can make is a shop worker who works for an independent shop expecting to be on the same amount as someone who works in Tesco's even if the job roles are similar, it just would never work that way.

The metro works over some national rail tracks (Pelaw-Sunderland). The drivers will have a lot of relevant experience so if there is a large pay difference it wouldn't be surprising if a lot found employment with heavy rail companies.
 

Andrew S

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The comparison I can make is a shop worker who works for an independent shop expecting to be on the same amount as someone who works in Tesco's even if the job roles are similar, it just would never work that way.
At the basic shelf filling/till operating level they're probably pretty similar, maybe 50p per hour difference. The big retailers do have a clear career structure with promotion potential though.
 

Starmill

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The comparison I can make is a shop worker who works for an independent shop expecting to be on the same amount as someone who works in Tesco's even if the job roles are similar, it just would never work that way.
Tesco currently pay entry level shop assistant roles at £9.30 / hour. Unicorn Grocery, an independent food shop in South Manchester offer casual work at £10 / hour. Other independents pay around the same range of £9 - 10. Some may pay a tad more. Same goes for the other major supermarkets.

What are you actually getting at?
 

ModernRailways

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No doubt it is lower but come on, we are comparing apples with oranges here, if metro drivers expect to be on similar to a mainline company, then there heads are in the clouds. The comparison I can make is a shop worker who works for an independent shop expecting to be on the same amount as someone who works in Tesco's even if the job roles are similar, it just would never work that way.

I don't think it's all down to money though, there are serious issues going on behind the scenes going by posts being made online from current and former staff members. And it has affected the service the passengers get and has done for the past 10 years and when you think things could not get any lower, then they do.

Not to worry, some nice shiny new trains are on their way and that will make everything better :rolleyes: There will be a shambles coming up in the next few years regarding these with late delivery, behind the scenes chaos with training and so on, I expect some of the current fleet to still be in service after 2025. In fairness in Britain, we are terrible getting new trains in service when they are planned too and the metro will be no exception.

There's a reason TPE poached loads of Metro drivers. It's simply down to pay and training. Metro drivers are fully trained and are almost fully trained on the mainline network too. It's also not just pay but benefits. With Metro you get very little benefits, free travel on Metro/buses within T&W (North East) for you and someone else you choose. You then get discounts on TPE, and Northern you then (usually) get a pass for Grand Central. In comparison someone who works for a mainline TOC gets discounted travel across all TOCs, free travel on their own TOC and usually on some other operators. They generally get more holidays and have better T&Cs.

Metro need to pay their drivers a much higher wage that is comparable to mainline TOC/FOCs if they want to retain talent. That's simply how it goes. Having a revolving door of train crew is never good because you want experienced staff. This has become evident recently with new drivers not knowing how to handle the stock during leaf fall.

There's an awful lot of negativity amongst all grades, this stems from management and again the lack of talent in management. Most of the management don't have any managerial skills whatsoever and it shows in the totally shambolic operation of the system.
 

Paul_10

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Tesco currently pay entry level shop assistant roles at £9.30 / hour. Unicorn Grocery, an independent food shop in South Manchester offer casual work at £10 / hour. Other independents pay around the same range of £9 - 10. Some may pay a tad more. Same goes for the other major supermarkets.

What are you actually getting at?

Been 6 years since I worked in retail for an independent where I got minimum wage so one may assume a shop worker working for a bigger firm who does a similar job will get more so I tried to make comparison of a train driver driving for a regional operator will be of course get less than a mainline operator. Clearly with your example, that is not fully the case.

ModernRailways - Of course money will keep the talent but if the money is not there(which is not as they keep needing the government to bail them out during COVID) then on that side of things, there's not alot Nexus can do. Clearly on a management side of things, there is alot more they can do to keep their staff happy enough so they don't want to leave. Just a sad state of affairs unfortunately.
 

ModernRailways

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ModernRailways - Of course money will keep the talent but if the money is not there(which is not as they keep needing the government to bail them out during COVID) then on that side of things, there's not alot Nexus can do. Clearly on a management side of things, there is alot more they can do to keep their staff happy enough so they don't want to leave. Just a sad state of affairs unfortunately.

That's the thing though, it doesn't cost more really. The cost of training and recruiting new drivers costs a fortune, you then have the fact that inexperienced drivers are out there having been rushed through training and then errors occur - INDUSI applications, delays as new drivers don't know how to handle certain conditions. The driver trainers are also still new (average seems to be 4/5 years at Metro) and so as mentioned (nothing of their own doing) they don't know the ins and outs of the system as well as someone who has been here longer. You have a lot of drivers now who are young and want to progress in their careers, Metro doesn't give much opportunity in that.
 

DB

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Been 6 years since I worked in retail for an independent where I got minimum wage so one may assume a shop worker working for a bigger firm who does a similar job will get more so I tried to make comparison of a train driver driving for a regional operator will be of course get less than a mainline operator. Clearly with your example, that is not fully the case.

ModernRailways - Of course money will keep the talent but if the money is not there(which is not as they keep needing the government to bail them out during COVID) then on that side of things, there's not alot Nexus can do. Clearly on a management side of things, there is alot more they can do to keep their staff happy enough so they don't want to leave. Just a sad state of affairs unfortunately.

The point I raised, to which you responded, was about the difference between the Metro and TOCs, not between one TOC and another.
 

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As has been alluded to Metro's new training school is purpose built for the support of the future of the profession, and Metro say they have 30 trainees in their current intake which is their largest ever.
 

philthetube

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No doubt it is lower but come on, we are comparing apples with oranges here, if metro drivers expect to be on similar to a mainline company, then there heads are in the clouds. The comparison I can make is a shop worker who works for an independent shop expecting to be on the same amount as someone who works in Tesco's even if the job roles are similar, it just would never work that way.
But if a shop worker can transfer to another shop which will utilise the skills the shop worker has and pay more then they will move. Why would they continue driving metro trains when they can earn more elsewhere.
That's the thing though, it doesn't cost more really. The cost of training and recruiting new drivers costs a fortune, you then have the fact that inexperienced drivers are out there having been rushed through training and then errors occur - INDUSI applications, delays as new drivers don't know how to handle certain conditions. The driver trainers are also still new (average seems to be 4/5 years at Metro) and so as mentioned (nothing of their own doing) they don't know the ins and outs of the system as well as someone who has been here longer. You have a lot of drivers now who are young and want to progress in their careers, Metro doesn't give much opportunity in that.
A big chunk of the problem dates back to privatisation, drivers would start driving on this sort of service and then be promoted as vacancies arose, the cost did not fall on the shoulders of companies like Nexus and Northern. To be honest I think that Nexus would be better off recruiting staff aged over 50, to dissuade others from poaching.
 
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