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TfL ticket machines and offices going cashless

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LonTravelWatch

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Hi everyone,

We'd like to make you aware, if you weren't already, that Transport for London are proposing to stop accepting cash at all London Underground, London Overground and DLR stations in the new year.

During the pandemic, many of London’s Underground station ticket machines have stopped taking cash payments for Oyster top up or to buy paper tickets in order to reduce the possible transmission of Coronavirus. TfL are now proposing to stop taking cash across all Underground, DLR and London Overground station ticket offices and machines.

To travel, passengers will need to have a contactless bank card or have topped up their Oyster card via a bank account online, or top up with cash or card at a retail Oyster ticket outlet. This means they will no longer be able to top up using cash at the station. We want to know how this will affect you or people you know, who may rely on cash top-ups.

If you do have some thoughts about this we'd love to hear from you. We've put together a very short survey to see how many people are affected by this change and what it would mean for them.

You can fill out the survey by clicking on the link here. And if you have family or friends that might be interested in having a say on this please feel free to share it with them.

Many thanks,

The London TravelWatch Team


Update 21.01.21

Hi everyone,

As you may have seen in the news, Transport for London has decided to drop its plans to stop taking cash across all London Underground, DLR and London Overground station ticket offices and machines!

TfL’s decision follows our research which showed the big impact withdrawing cash would have on passengers, especially those on low incomes, children or the 260,000 adults in London without a bank account. Some stations don’t have a Ticket Stop, usually a newsagent or convenience store, nearby, which would have made it harder to top up an Oyster card with cash.

A big thank you to those of you who told us about the impact that this would have on you or those you know.

TfL haven’t yet said when they will reinstate cash at over 200 Underground, DLR and Overground stations where they withdrew it early in the pandemic. We’re urging them to bring back cash at these stations as soon as possible and will keep you updated on our progress.

Thanks again for all your help and if you are having to travel at the moment do take care of yourselves.

Best wishes,

Luke
London TravelWatch
 
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bb21

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I think you forgot the link. ;)

In any case, I don't believe it is anything to do with the pandemic. It is purely a cost-cutting exercise. TfL's hatred of cash transactions are well known and they have finally found an excuse to hide under.

I don't think cashless top-ups can be in anything other than £5 increments, disproportionately affecting the poor, who may only top up small amounts in cash at a time.
 

PeterC

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You beat me to it about the link.

It doesn't affect me as I top up online or by card but it seems short sighted to remove cash payment from the stations outside of Greater London where there is no alternative retail option.
 

LonTravelWatch

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I think you forgot the link. ;)

In any case, I don't believe it is anything to do with the pandemic. It is purely a cost-cutting exercise. TfL's hatred of cash transactions are well known and they have finally found an excuse to hide under.

I don't think cashless top-ups can be in anything other than £5 increments, disproportionately affecting the poor, who may only top up small amounts in cash at a time.
Apologies for that. Not sure why it didn't work the first time. You should be able to access it now.
 

Mcr Warrior

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This has to be up there as a leading contender alongside the various other examples mentioned in the separate Companies Using "Because of COVID" As An Excuse For Poor Service thread on this forum.

 

gray1404

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So you won't even be able to top uo your Oyster card at a London Underground ticket machine using a bank card anymore?
 

Bletchleyite

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So you won't even be able to top uo your Oyster card at a London Underground ticket machine using a bank card anymore?

That seems a strange thing to do.

Even as someone who is pro-card, this seems stupid. TfL do need the ability to use cash, and stations are an ideal place for it.
 

Mag_seven

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duncanp

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So you won't even be able to top uo your Oyster card at a London Underground ticket machine using a bank card anymore?

If you can't use a station ticket machine to top up your Oyster card using a bank card, then that begs the question what exactly are station ticket machines for?

I don't know why they are bothering with the survey though, because no doubt they have already made the decision to go ahead with the proposal.
 

matt_world2004

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You could fit ticket machines with UV lamps that disinfect the money as its is stored this would make it completely safe for staff to handle and safer than requiring a customer to enter a newsagent to buy a ticket and hand over the cash in a cash register.
 

bobbyrail

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Clearly you can't catch Covid-19 down at the local newsagents using the card machine but you can in TFL locations using the ticket machines. Or is the current situation just VERY convenient for TFL to go totally cashless and save themselves a couple of quid whilst saying sod you to the 6 million people in the UK that rely on cash.
 

PG

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So numerous occasional or one-time visitors to London will be getting directions from station staff (or the public) on how to find Findlay's newsagent round the corner from the station! :rolleyes:
 

Bletchleyite

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Clearly you can't catch Covid-19 down at the local newsagents using the card machine but you can in TFL locations using the ticket machines. Or is the current situation just VERY convenient for TFL to go totally cashless and save themselves a couple of quid whilst saying sod you to the 6 million people in the UK that rely on cash.

Yes, that one. Nothing to do with COVID really.
 

scrapy

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Can TFL stop taking cash at Overground stations? They are part of National Rail so presumably if someone wants to pay by cash they can travel and pay at the earliest opportunity? If Overground can stop taking cash presumably other National Rail operators will follow suit. (I'm thinking those like Northern and TFW with huge numbers of card only TVMs).
 

island

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So the implication is that you can no longer use a machine at a station to top up an oyster card, even with a bank card?
I understand (hope) this is a typo or misinterpretation, and POMs will still be able to accept card payments to top up or buy Oyster cards.
 

Mojo

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I understand (hope) this is a typo or misinterpretation, and POMs will still be able to accept card payments to top up or buy Oyster cards.
It is incorrect. The proposal is only to withdraw cash (notes and coin) transactions.
 

PeterC

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Can TFL stop taking cash at Overground stations? They are part of National Rail so presumably if someone wants to pay by cash they can travel and pay at the earliest opportunity? If Overground can stop taking cash presumably other National Rail operators will follow suit. (I'm thinking those like Northern and TFW with huge numbers of card only TVMs).
Not to forget the Met Line stations used by Chiltern, some of which are fully barriered.
 

Mojo

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Not to forget the Met Line stations used by Chiltern, some of which are fully barriered.
These stations aren’t covered by the TSA (Ticketing settlement agreement) however, which is why it was possible to remove the ticket offices without any consultation, unlike (say) stations on the Bakerloo line north of Queens Park.
 

mickey

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I have precisely zero issue with this. If it saves a bit of money that can be put to better use, even better.

We should be putting our resources into helping those left behind in the 20th century to catch up (e.g. helping anyone without a bank account to get one, or teaching someone how to use a bank card), not squandering them pandering to an increasingly diminishing minority. I can think of no valid reasons to insist on using cash at an Underground station.
 

Qwerty133

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These stations aren’t covered by the TSA (Ticketing settlement agreement) however, which is why it was possible to remove the ticket offices without any consultation, unlike (say) stations on the Bakerloo line north of Queens Park.
It's got nothing to do with the TSA. The problem is that the NRCOT (National Rail Conditions of Travel) continue to allow for passengers to choose to pay in cash so unless these are amended passengers wishing to pay in cash will have to be let through the barriers without a ticket unless there is a way for a cash sale to be processed. Presumably there has already been internal discussions around this issue and a solution has been found as it would be extremely short sighted to effectively allow widespread ticketless travel.
 

py_megapixel

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Clearly you can't catch Covid-19 down at the local newsagents using the card machine but you can in TFL locations using the ticket machines. Or is the current situation just VERY convenient for TFL to go totally cashless and save themselves a couple of quid whilst saying sod you to the 6 million people in the UK that rely on cash.
Could you possibly let us know where you've got that 6 million from?

I don't necessarily agree with removing cash acceptance, as you are right that a significant quantity of people rely on it, but that figure just seems to be pulled from thin air.
 

Mojo

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It's got nothing to do with the TSA. The problem is that the NRCOT (National Rail Conditions of Travel) continue to allow for passengers to choose to pay in cash so unless these are amended passengers wishing to pay in cash will have to be let through the barriers without a ticket unless there is a way for a cash sale to be processed. Presumably there has already been internal discussions around this issue and a solution has been found as it would be extremely short sighted to effectively allow widespread ticketless travel.
It is kind of relevant because that governs accepted payment methods. In any case only Harrow on the Hill is in any of the stations on this line that accepts cash anyway so this proposal doesn’t actually change that.

I also can’t see in the NRCoT where it mentions payment types; only how refunds will be dealt with dependent on type of payment.
 
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PG

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It's got nothing to do with the TSA. The problem is that the NRCOT (National Rail Conditions of Travel) continue to allow for passengers to choose to pay in cash so unless these are amended passengers wishing to pay in cash will have to be let through the barriers without a ticket unless there is a way for a cash sale to be processed. Presumably there has already been internal discussions around this issue and a solution has been found as it would be extremely short sighted to effectively allow widespread ticketless travel.
How easy can the NRCOT be amended?
Is it just a case of RDG deciding to amend them or is there some sort of consultation or approval process to be gone through?
 

Cdd89

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Whatever the legitimate reasons for using cash are or are not, the fact is that a significant number of individuals using the TVM at my local London Underground station are depositing cash. That may be because it’s one of relatively few that still accept it, and of course with online deposits and contactless there are fewer non cash reasons for TVM use.

As for reasons to use cash, I believe cash is the only way to very small deposits using a LU TVM. For example adding 50p to an Oyster card.
 
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