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TFW Pacer withdrawals

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WesternLancer

WesternLancer

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AdamWW said:
I suppose it depends what you want.

I'd much rather be able to see and travel on trains that were once commonplace and widespread but are no longer around than a prototype that only ever ran briefly.

And yes, unless maybe you think that it's preventing heritage lines from spending money on something more worthwhile, I can't see the damage done by having plenty of parts donors around.
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Yes, ideally you would have a mix - interesting prototypes and the things everyone used and was commonplace (which is very important as you say, eg as a way of linking the general public's experience with the object), but maybe not just lots of the commonplace as it were. Having said that, I totally get why it's good to have examples of things in different places so you can see and enjoy them locally to you - esp if there is a link to the area concerned. Ultimately all down to what the preservation movement can afford of course, which is money based and the time of volunteers to make it happen.

Personally I'm pleased that lots of Pacers are not going to scrap yards now, but I am realistic that some will in due course, and no doubt parts from them will help others survive I am sure.
 
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507021

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WesternLancer said:
This is a point well made, esp when you contrast with the very limited amount of EMU preservation (and indeed interesting and rare EMUs like the 4DDs not being restored), tho there are reasons for this give the difficulty running them.

However, I suspect a lot of pacers will not really be 'preserved' long term - it's that preserved lines see a business case for having them and running them at times as part of their service. It will no doubt end up with many units as parts donors or being put to one side when more serious costly repairs are required. But with that in mind it's no bad thing that they go to lines now in some numbers rather than end up destroyed in scrap yards where they can't perform that function. Long term so long as there are a small number of examples of each type well preserved, restored, clean and smart and running that's a good outcome.
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I think that's a very good summary, spot on.
 
507021

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AdamWW said:
I suppose it depends what you want.

I'd much rather be able to see and travel on trains that were once commonplace and widespread but are no longer around than a prototype that only ever ran briefly.

And yes, unless maybe you think that it's preventing heritage lines from spending money on something more worthwhile, I can't see the damage done by having plenty of parts donors around.
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I'd personally rather more enthusiasm went into preserving as many train types as possible, rather than just the more common or long-lived ones.

By all means, preserve a few of each class of Pacer, but let's be sensible and make sure there's resources available to preserve some Sprinters and other unit classes across the network when their time comes.

SERA01UK said:
I preserved a 210 car in its final guise. Have a look here:

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That's brilliant, hats off to you.

I'll give that a read later on this evening. :)
 
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ValleyLines142 said:
Which 143s are they? I notice 143602 is back in Cardiff.

My guess is maybe 143604, 143609, 143622 and 143623? I haven't seem for a while.
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609 is back in traffic and believe the 3 others will be soon to assist with withdrawals of 142s. The 4th is 142082 which has probably come to the end of it's life.
 
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507021 said:
Even better.

Frankly, I have no idea why there's so much enthusiasm to preserve so many of the dreadful things when rarer and far more interesting classes, like the 151s and 210s, no longer exist even as static exhibits.
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I got to admit that I am very disappointed that non of the two Class 151s was preserved. I have never set eyes on one ,let alone travelled on one. However, from photos, they were superior in a lot of ways to 150s, with ambiance almost as good as Pacers and very stylish. In comparison, the 150/2 and 210 had a front end that looks like it was designed by 'a committee with a grudge'.
 
507021

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ed1971 said:
I got to admit that I am very disappointed that non of the two Class 151s was preserved. I have never set eyes on one ,let alone travelled on one. However, from photos, they were superior in a lot of ways to 150s, with ambiance almost as good as Pacers and very stylish. In comparison, the 150/2 and 210 had a front end that looks like it was designed by 'a committee with a grudge'.
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I agree completely. Unfortunately, I expect it was the 151's technological features which made British Rail decide to order the 150 instead.

Anyway, I digress!
 
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ed1971

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507021 said:
I agree completely. Unfortunately, I expect it was the 151's technological features which made British Rail decide to order the 150 instead.

Anyway, I digress!
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I recall reading that there was a delay to the Class 151s because the rail union requested some changes to the cab layout. This meant that the 151 was out of the running for production orders whereas the 150 was early. At the time, there was an urgent need to withdraw rolling stock containing Asbestos.

Actually, my post about the 151s got me thinking. I seem to recall going past Longsight depot in January 1994 on 142032 and seeing one of the 151s outside. Does anyone else recall one of them visiting Longsight around this time?
 
47827

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ed1971 said:
Actually, my post about the 151s got me thinking. I seem to recall going past Longsight depot in January 1994 on 142032 and seeing one of the 151s outside. Does anyone else recall one of them visiting Longsight around this time?
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Went past LG depot a lot in 1994 and can't remember, but I'm not disputing it. Certainly do remember their stay in the long demolished sheds at Llandudno Junction, which also hosted stored Merseyrail vehicles in the 90s for a while.

Now its time to see if any of the tfw pacers go to private railways. Suspect if this year hadn't happened a few more lines would have taken one but now money is an issue for many of them so spending even a few grand plus movement costs has to be left in some cases.
 
LBOTG

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Have seen it mentioned on here that the 143s could continue into 2021 - does anyone have a rough indication of how long they'll last? Will it be a matter of weeks or months?

Thanks in advance
 
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LBOTG said:
Have seen it mentioned on here that the 143s could continue into 2021 - does anyone have a rough indication of how long they'll last? Will it be a matter of weeks or months?

Thanks in advance
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Rumours are March 2021. However when it is formally announced best advice is to get them done asap. Because as what has just happened on Northern has seen them bow out two and a half weeks earlier than expected, even though they have dispensation to a certain time. Still that doesn't mean they will end at that time either.
 
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I don't think anyone really knows. A lot of it depends on more 769s in service and updates on 230s, the latter unlikely to be introduced in the next 6 months at least.
 
47827

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Caaardiff said:
I don't think anyone really knows. A lot of it depends on more 769s in service and updates on 230s, the latter unlikely to be introduced in the next 6 months at least.
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Don't forget whenever the normal timetable finally resumes (possibly post Easter) there were to be 2 diagrams between Cardiff and Holyhead with 67s and Mk4s too unless Drakeford and friends have the plan dropped due to dwindling demand putting them off. If training isn't completed on those sets then currently on the full timetable it ties up a couple more 158s/175s which potentially makes it harder to keep enough sprinters free to ensure the last pacer withdrawal can happen. Add in the 230s and 769s not having a full compliment and it's easy to see a need to retain a micro fleet of 143s beyond Christmas.
 
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47827 said:
Don't forget whenever the normal timetable finally resumes (possibly post Easter) there were to be 2 diagrams between Cardiff and Holyhead with 67s and Mk4s too unless Drakeford and friends have the plan dropped due to dwindling demand putting them off. If training isn't completed on those sets then currently on the full timetable it ties up a couple more 158s/175s which potentially makes it harder to keep enough sprinters free to ensure the last pacer withdrawal can happen. Add in the 230s and 769s not having a full compliment and it's easy to see a need to retain a micro fleet of 143s beyond Christmas.
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Not confirmed yet but the story is that a number of 143s will have dispensation to continue for a spell. For the period of the Timetable until May Holyhead to Cardiff trains are only running between Holyhead and Shrewsbury so no need to worry for a while.
 
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When I was last down in Cardiff in September I was told by one of the guards that 142's were staying until the end of the year.

Am I to believe that the gentleman was incorrect that they are finishing on 12th December?
 
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PHILIPE

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Bod said:
When I was last down in Cardiff in September I was told by one of the guards that 142's were staying until the end of the year.

Am I to believe that the gentleman was incorrect that they are finishing on 12th December?
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I think one will have to wait and see as these situations can cause all sorts of versions of stories to circulate in the absence of information from the TOC itself. The position is they have dispensation to work until 31 December.
 
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PHILIPE said:
I think one will have to wait and see as these situations can cause all sorts of versions of stories to circulate in the absence of information from the TOC itself. The position is they have dispensation to work until 31 December.
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Thanks Philipe
 
66050

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5R99 (XRS-XCC) runs on Sunday, believe that this could be the last of the pacers coming down from Rhymney?
 
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sd0733

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Ive posted the full.diagrams in the tfw pacer thread in the allocations section but its automerged with yesterdays

There are 6 remaining 142s out today for their last booked day. The last workings will be (subject to any changes during the day) plus 075 which has swapped in during the afternoon

142002 13/12 2F66 17:12 Rhymney to Cardiff C
142006 11/12 2E22 21:14 Rhymney to Cardiff
142069 12/12 2F59 20:46 Bargoed to Cardiff C
142073 11/12 2P71 20:15 Merthyr Tydfil to Cardiff
142074 13/12 2R22 20:52 Penarth toRhymney
142075 12/12 2R21 21:31 Bridgend to Rhymney
142076 12/12 2E22 21:00 Rhymney to Cardiff C
142077 13/12 2F75 18:42 Bridgend to Cardiff C
142080 12/12 2J37 22:22 Barry Island to Cardiff C
142081 06/12 2F14 08:57 Rhymney to Cardiff
142085 13/12 2F94 21:42 Bridgend to Cardiff
 
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AdamWW

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sd0733 said:
No, the 142s should be gone at the end of today.
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How are they going to go from needing 6 out today to having none available on Monday?

Does the new timetable have a reduction in services?
 
Bob Price

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There should be three possibly four 769's out next week. That should cover 6 to 8 units.
 
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