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The End of the Mk1 Carriage on the mainline?

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bleeder4

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If we are to be sealed in to a carriage then will it really matter whats on the front. Last steam trip I was on was diesel hauled at the start and end. The steam loco was added in a loop near Battersea on the way out and dropped off near Acton on the way back. Only the person in the window seat facing forward was able to catch an occasional glimpse when rounding curves and only through having the Mk1 toplights open could we even hear an occasional whistle or exhaust to show what was pulling us. We did get to see the loco (Clan Line) briefly at the mid trip destination but as it was just off the platform no chance for a decent picture. Plenty of photographers out and about but very disappointing for those on board as for me it may as well just have been anything up front.
I believe that was the Pathfinder trip to Margate. I was on that as well. As well as Margate itself, there was also the water stop at Dover on the way back where a few photos could be taken. Ironically, I actually count that as one of my top 5 favourite trips. You should never expect to take photos of the loco when you go on railtours, inevitable it will be off platforms at station stops. Any photo you do take should be an unexpected bonus. I don't even try to take photos anymore, for me I just enjoy the experience of it all.
 
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Graham H

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I believe that was the Pathfinder trip to Margate. I was on that as well. As well as Margate itself, there was also the water stop at Dover on the way back where a few photos could be taken. Ironically, I actually count that as one of my top 5 favourite trips. You should never expect to take photos of the loco when you go on railtours, inevitable it will be off platforms at station stops. Any photo you do take should be an unexpected bonus. I don't even try to take photos anymore, for me I just enjoy the experience of it all.
Yes that was the trip. What I was trying to say is that just about the only 'experience' for those on board is to hear the loco through a Mk1 toplight so take that away and you are left with nothing other than the odd glimpse on a curve or fighting off several hundred others during a waterstop.
 

yorksrob

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That's why you can't beat the thumper. Train and engine are intertwined :)
 

Rescars

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If we are to be sealed in to a carriage then will it really matter whats on the front. Last steam trip I was on was diesel hauled at the start and end. The steam loco was added in a loop near Battersea on the way out and dropped off near Acton on the way back. Only the person in the window seat facing forward was able to catch an occasional glimpse when rounding curves and only through having the Mk1 toplights open could we even hear an occasional whistle or exhaust to show what was pulling us. We did get to see the loco (Clan Line) briefly at the mid trip destination but as it was just off the platform no chance for a decent picture. Plenty of photographers out and about but very disappointing for those on board as for me it may as well just have been anything up front.
If you are sealed in, at least their is no risk of getting a free shower if you forget to close the windows when the loco scoops a drink at watertroughs!:D
 

randyrippley

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There were both types:

Mk2C TSOT - common on certain Inter-regional services, at one point the south TransPennines before coversion to mobile trolley catering, Waterloo-Exeter, Inverness-Glasgow/Edinburgh. Some Laira sets used on various Provincial workings centered on Cardiff.

Also Mk2D: common on certain XC routes in the mid-80s vice a full buffet car, ScotRail Express services not using Mk3 push-pull sets (ie most Glasgow-Aberdeen, Edinburgh-Aberdeen) and so on.
Some were also used as spares to the Mk2C vehicles, Inverness had 5 TSOT allocated for 5 sets 1986-90, 4 Mk2C and 1 Mk2D.
One I rode on once on Exeter-Waterloo was a mk2 compartment coach with full-depth windows and solid glazing - a non-a/c coach converted to a/c. A buffet had been inserted at one end, presumably replacing two compartments.
I found a record of it online, from memory just two were converted, but never been able to find it again
 

hexagon789

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One I rode on once on Exeter-Waterloo was a mk2 compartment coach with full-depth windows and solid glazing - a non-a/c coach converted to a/c. A buffet had been inserted at one end, presumably replacing two compartments.
I found a record of it online, from memory just two were converted, but never been able to find it again
I had a look in both Harris and the diagram books, but I can't find a thing matching that description, even vaguely.

If it was compartment then it must've been an FK, as no Mk2 compartment seconds were built new. I would doubt a brake, as that wouldn't leave much seating after two compartments worth of buffet were put in.

Going through the list of FKs, all are listed as either withdrawn as built or converted to SKs or, in the case of five Mk2C vehicles, to CKs. I can't find any reference to any catering conversions though.

A very intriguing mystery, especially with the AC retrofit.
 

Peter Mugridge

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One I rode on once on Exeter-Waterloo was a mk2 compartment coach with full-depth windows and solid glazing - a non-a/c coach converted to a/c. A buffet had been inserted at one end, presumably replacing two compartments.
I found a record of it online, from memory just two were converted, but never been able to find it again
There were two normal Mk2 air conditioned FKs that did get used on the Waterloo - Exeter services.

One was 13575, I think. Can't remember what the other one was.
 

DelW

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If you are sealed in, at least their is no risk of getting a free shower if you forget to close the windows when the loco scoops a drink at watertroughs!:D
That hasn't been problem for about the last 50 years, although a brief Google search hasn't turned up an exact date for the removal of the last troughs in Britain. Late 60s or early 70s seems likely (some early diesels had scoops to replenish steam heating boilers).
 

Rescars

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That hasn't been problem for about the last 50 years, although a brief Google search hasn't turned up an exact date for the removal of the last troughs in Britain. Late 60s or early 70s seems likely (some early diesels had scoops to replenish steam heating boilers).
Cold showers aren't what they used to be!:lol:
 

Beebman

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There were two normal Mk2 air conditioned FKs that did get used on the Waterloo - Exeter services.

One was 13575, I think. Can't remember what the other one was.
My copy of the P5 'combined volume' for 1992 shows 13563 along with 13575 as belonging to NSE sector code NWXX ('West of England'). It denotes the former as being in blue/grey and the latter in NSE livery. However the only picture I can find of 13575 in that livery is from a collection of photos of derelict coaches taken in 2011 by a visitor to Dalton Airfield Industrial Estate near Thirsk:

https://allanjenks.smugmug.com/Other/Dalton-Airfield-Industrial-Estate-Thirsk/i-3JF3q6J/A
 

43172

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In reguards to the topic of the original post, i think that it's a good decision to make, although feel it should've been sooner, especially given the safety risks of no door locking and the bad press of toilets dumping on the tracks.

I'd question why the current extemption is to March 2023, rather than to more coencide with the rules applied to normal passenger stock on accessability, maybe to have had central door locking and retention tanks required by the end of 2020 (assuming that "you know what" never happened).

In the years to come i can see there being a requirement to put locks at droplights in a similar manner to how it currently works on the Night Riviera sleeper to reduce the risk further, maybe allowing the window down a little bit more than on the sleeper but no more than a couple of inches. With hopper windows in the carriage buffers to be fitted inside so the window can be open, but again no where near wide enough for a head to poke out of.
 

Davester50

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The attraction of Mark 1s to passengers appears to be that they have opening windows and no air conditioning. They are actually a selling point to some passengers who want the hear the traction.

I expect most people who use such services would risk the opening window.

Not just the traction, the rail joints, points and crossings, etc. Modern carriages sound dead sound-wise to me. My last Mk 1 ride was a spirited run from London Bridge to Redhill in a 4-CIG.

Problem solved. Can keep Mark 3s but fit a window similar to the Irish Rail commuter Mark 3s!

Irish Rail 6305 in Glounthaune Station. by Fred Dean, on Flickr

The photo shows an Irish Mark 3 with opening saloon windows
 

VEP3417

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saw this the other day on train truckers, is this the future of all railtours....... :lol:

and you thought mk2s looked out of place with a steam train :lol:
 

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Bletchleyite

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That’s a great picture. The mk2 looks quite incongruous.

Though to be fair I bet most customers wouldn't care what it was provided they could hear the locomotive and smell a bit of smoke/diesel fumes.

Fitting hoppers to power door Mk3s (no head-removal risk) sounds an entirely feasible option to me - the Irish coaches seem to suggest it's structurally possible. Purists might not like it, but most railtour customers aren't purists, and if you specifically want to ride Mk1s they're all over the preserved lines. Though I reckon the deadline will just be extended subject to the fitting of non-dumping toilets and possibly droplight bars.
 
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