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The End of the Mk1 Carriage on the mainline?

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StephenHunter

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One big issue with Mark 1s is the lack of air con; unless you retrofit it (as VSOE did with their carriages) you're going to have increasing problems doing tours.
 
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JonathanH

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One big issue with Mark 1s is the lack of air con; unless you retrofit it (as VSOE did with their carriages) you're going to have increasing problems doing tours.
Is that because you are expecting the windows to be sealed up or because of issues related to a warmer climate?

The attraction of Mark 1s to passengers appears to be that they have opening windows and no air conditioning. They are actually a selling point to some passengers who want the hear the traction.
 

Rescars

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Please can someone explain where the power to run the air conditioning comes from on a steam hauled train? Do all main line steam workings now include a diesel in the consist?
 

yorksrob

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Lack of air conditioning is only a problem if the train is stuck somewhere. I expect most people who use such services would risk the opening window.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Please can someone explain where the power to run the air conditioning comes from on a steam hauled train? Do all main line steam workings now include a diesel in the consist?
There's almost always a diesel in the consist. Or you can use a generator van.
 

hexagon789

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Please can someone explain where the power to run the air conditioning comes from on a steam hauled train? Do all main line steam workings now include a diesel in the consist?
Either an ETS-equipped diesel or a generator van in the formation
 

StephenHunter

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Lack of air conditioning is only a problem if the train is stuck somewhere. I expect most people who use such services would risk the opening window.
Many tours have long stops at signals or sidings. And open windows work best with a moving train.
 

Dunnideer

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How does the Queen of the Scots set (mix of GNR, LNWR etc coaches), Royal train and Belmond rakes fit this ?
Don’t know about the others but the Royal vehicles have had retention tanks since 1977. There are no mk1 vehicles in the current Royal fleet anyway.
 

Iskra

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43096

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No catering vehicles were built new to any Mk2 design for British Rail
I’ll throw the Manchester and Merseyside Pullmans into the equation at this point, as kitchen cars were included in the build.
 

hexagon789

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I’ll throw the Manchester and Merseyside Pullmans into the equation at this point, as kitchen cars were included in the build.
True, but still Pullman Cars - they weren't marshalled as catering vehicles in normal sets only as vehicles with a kitchen in fixed Pullman formations.

Perhaps a touch of semantics but I wouldn't count them as catering vehicles per se, not in the ordinary way.
 

43096

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True, but still Pullman Cars - they weren't marshalled as catering vehicles in normal sets only as vehicles with a kitchen in fixed Pullman formations.

Perhaps a touch of semantics but I wouldn't count them as catering vehicles per se, not in the ordinary way.
Agreed! I probably missed adding a ;) or two to my post.
 

hexagon789

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Agreed! I probably missed adding a ;) or two to my post.
No problem, I understood you were just making the point that there were new-build Mk2 drsign coaches with catering equipment installed shall we say.
 

fgwrich

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No problem, I understood you were just making the point that there were new-build Mk2 drsign coaches with catering equipment installed shall we say.
On the Mk2 front, I'm surprised no-one has so far converted any of the D/E/F Family to become a Mk2 Kitchen - For this I'm thinking the liked of Northern Belle, Riviera or LSL.
 

StephenHunter

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There was the Mark 2fs converted to Restaurant First Opens that Anglia Railways used. North Weald on the Epping Ongar Railway has one that is used for indoor seating at their café.
 

hexagon789

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On the Mk2 front, I'm surprised no-one has so far converted any of the D/E/F Family to become a Mk2 Kitchen - For this I'm thinking the liked of Northern Belle, Riviera or LSL.
Perhaps it's simply easier to use existing Mk1s?

BR did have the RSS APT-P buffet prototype, though that didn't have a kitchen per se.

The obviously the TSOT micro-buffets S mentioned and the RFB and the RLO conversions for XC services/the sleepers respectively.

There was the Mark 2fs converted to Restaurant First Opens
RFBs rather than RFOs, same type as the vehicles used in XC Mk2E/F sets.

The Anglia workings with a full restaurant service used either the last Mk1 RBRs in revenue service or the few Mk3A RFM Anglia had.

They also had a set with an FO(T) at one point.
 

contrex

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The attraction of Mark 1s to passengers appears to be that they have opening windows and no air conditioning. They are actually a selling point to some passengers who want the hear the traction.
Not just the traction, the rail joints, points and crossings, etc. Modern carriages sound dead sound-wise to me. My last Mk 1 ride was a spirited run from London Bridge to Redhill in a 4-CIG.
 

Big Jumby 74

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The attraction of Mark 1s to passengers appears to be that they have opening windows and no air conditioning. They are actually a selling point to some passengers who want the hear the traction.
Not just the traction, the rail joints, points and crossings, etc. Modern carriages sound dead sound-wise to me.
This post comes with a health warning. I do not intend to offend anyone, but speak from my own personal view point:

Spot on, on both above counts. I have vivid memories of travelling over Central Wales (25's) and Far North (26's) when one could sit in an otherwise near empty front carriage, slide the top window open, shut ones eyes and enjoy the moment. By the early 80's and the increasingly rapid withdrawal of old school diesels, many more 'enthusiasts' were drawn to such workings, and some of these individuals demonstrated their enthusiasm in a far more extrovert way (hanging out every available window, shouting - bellowing!), which for me personally, ruined the experience, which in the event marked my departure from any further interest in same :(.

As said no intent to cause any offence.
 

XAM2175

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... some of these individuals demonstrated their enthusiasm in a far more extrovert way (hanging out every available window, shouting - bellowing!), which for me personally, ruined the experience, which in the event marked my departure from any further interest in same :(.
You're far from alone there, sadly.
 

StephenHunter

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Don't know about that one, but a Bluebell Railway volunteer sustained a fatal head injury leaning out of the guard's window on an SWT service some years back.
 

Iskra

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Don't know about that one, but a Bluebell Railway volunteer sustained a fatal head injury leaning out of the guard's window on an SWT service some years back.
That was 2016, on a 442. To the family’s credit they didn’t indulge in the blame game with the railway and accepted that they died doing something they loved.

There was a slightly more recent one of a person who had been consuming alcohol being fatally wounded on a FGW HST in the Bath area.

The above two incidents are what seem to have done for stock with drop lights as far Network Rail are concerned.
 

Graham H

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If we are to be sealed in to a carriage then will it really matter whats on the front. Last steam trip I was on was diesel hauled at the start and end. The steam loco was added in a loop near Battersea on the way out and dropped off near Acton on the way back. Only the person in the window seat facing forward was able to catch an occasional glimpse when rounding curves and only through having the Mk1 toplights open could we even hear an occasional whistle or exhaust to show what was pulling us. We did get to see the loco (Clan Line) briefly at the mid trip destination but as it was just off the platform no chance for a decent picture. Plenty of photographers out and about but very disappointing for those on board as for me it may as well just have been anything up front.
 
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