The Night Ferry

[32475]

Was it a Belgian registered or French registered car? In 1962, would a Belgian registered car in France stick out like a sore thumb?

Also, if he had no passport, how did he escape from Belgium in pre-Schengen days? Edit: presumably using his second passport.

(You realise we all expect royalties out of this )

Yes a Belgian registered car would stick out like a sore thumb in France because they had flimsy white background number plates with red text whereas in France the plates were more robust and black background with aluminium text.
I remember in a the 1960s being told by a French family I was staying with that the Belgians were all dangerous drivers and their white and red number plates stood out as a warning to others!

Meanwhile, if this evocative pre-war poster illustration by Leslie Carr don’t stir the nostalgic juices then I don’t know what does....

 

[MotCO]

Meanwhile, if this evocative pre-war poster illustration by Leslie Carr don’t stir the nostalgic juices then I don’t know what does....

I like the comment 'petrol can be left in cars'! I have visions of drivers sucking the petrol out from their cars.

 

[WesternLancer]

I like the comment 'petrol can be left in cars'! I have visions of drivers sucking the petrol out from their cars.

Yes, reminded me of a thread some months back about the car carrying shuttle thru the Severn Tunnel - where petrol had to be syphoned before vehicles placed on the train - no doubt a real distinctive to use compared with the rival ferry at the time.

That thread was this one

Severn Tunnel Junction - Pilning High Level Car Transport Service

A very good and longstanding friend and I have recently become aware of this service which was started by the GWR in 1924. We believe that, like the Aust car ferry, it operated right up until the opening of the Severn Bridge and in latter years was scheduled to operate typically between two and...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Gloster]

I was told that one of the reasons for the the dislike of Belgian drivers by the French, in addition to the way in which the French look down on the Belgians (and everybody else) anyway, was that the driving test had only been introduced to the country relatively late. There were quite a few Belgian registered cars being driven by people who had never passed a test.

 

[BayPaul]

Sorry I if I misunderstood, but I would be tempted to not disregard the Oostende - Dover route. At the time it was probably the biggest route from the UK to the continent. They had just introduced a small fleet of drive-on car ferries (Prinses Josephine Charlotte of 1948, Artvelde of 1958 and Koningin Fabiola, which entered service on 10th June 1962). I don't have a timetable, but the car ferries typically ran 2 sailings per day each, so around 1 saling every 4 hours in the summer. They also had half a dozen or so passenger mailboats (Prince Baudouin, Prins Albert, Koning Albert, Prince Philippe, Roi Leopold III, Koningin Elizabeth, Reine Astrid), so would have had departures most hours of the day. The ferryport in Oostende is very central in the town - with a line of ships moored right alongside the central station, and it would probably be a very big draw for your character to either board a ship as a passenger, in his car, or even to stow away if he didn't feel comfortable buying a ticket - photos of the quay show that open decks were at a similar height to the quayside, and so stowing away would be entirely possible if he could do so unobserved.

 

[Taunton]

By chance, we did a family holiday to Ostend in 1962, and other times. It was always spelled as such then (and before).

My father was in business partnership with a principal organiser of these holidays there, by rail/sea, whose son (teenage then) has written lengthy articles about it all http://www.youluckypeople.com/you-lucky-people---the-story/falling-in-love4764365 . He's a local and spells it as such too. So that's my opening credentials for this one.

The Dover-Ostend ship was a huge high frequency operation and even beat Dover-Calais/Boulogne for numbers of passengers. The Dunkirk (another name change) ship operation was trivia in comparison. It was operated wholly by a Belgian government company, with no UK participation. Where BR was still building steamships into the mid-1960s, the Belgians had changed over to diesels in the mid-1930s. Partly due to the specific length of the route, about 4 hours at full speed. Two hours to turn round, go back, and such a capable ship could make two regular round trips, day after day, in summer, which was a great efficiency. By 1962 the fleet was, I think, 9 or 10, and all used in this way. Regular services, relief sailings, travel agency charters, at busy times it was effectively turned into a turn-up-and-go operation.

RTM, the operator, were also pioneers with car ferries, which looked quite indistinguishable from the passenger ferries. For some reason all overlooked in the Free Enterprise etc accounts. First car ferry was the Princes Josephine Charlotte in, yes, 1949, 700 passengers, 110 cars. Double daily car crossings. In 1958 the Artevelde, 1,000 passengers, 160 cars. By 1962 the Koningin Fabiola, same size. That was car ferries every few hours. They had a car door in the stern. I doubt anyone from Belgium/Netherlands/Germany/Austria etc would have considered another route by then.

The Dunkirk (and Dover) terminals were such a mechanical hoo-hah to get trains into the ships. I don't think any other port ever took up the approach.

(I seem to have duplicated much of the previous post!!). Must be quicker.

 

[BayPaul]

(I seem to have duplicated much of the previous post!!).

Yours was much better than mine! Fascinating to hear about what it was actually like on those gorgeous ships.

 

[Union St]

Hello guys; thank you as usual. I have so much to read. I should have guessed that one of you guys would have actually have been in Oostende just as my story takes place! Anyway, I'm pretty sure the sleeper is out of contention. There would just not be any guarantee of getting onboard. Surely, Townsend MUST have carried foot passengers out of Calais. Why would they not? The car is a French built (I considered English built for a while) and he has French and UK plates. Surely there must have been French cars in Belgium, yes? Irish passports; I'll save that for future consideration, but he is on contract to the intelligence services, so I don't believe passports would have been a problem. On the Air Bridge you were allowed 3/4 tank of gas, just to let you know. In Oostende, he had just killed a man and it's all gone wrong, so I think he would want to get away from the area. Taunton, do you know the Royal Astor hotel; that's where he checked in.

 

[Gloster]

A look at the French Wikipedia pages suggests that in Belgium it was only in 1977 that it became necessary to take a test on the road. For a period before that there was only a written or paper test.

Hello guys; thank you as usual. I have so much to read. I should have guessed that one of you guys would have actually have been in Oostende just as my story takes place! Anyway, I'm pretty sure the sleeper is out of contention. There would just not be any guarantee of getting onboard. Surely, Townsend MUST have carried foot passengers out of Calais. Why would they not? The car is a French built (I considered English built for a while) and he has French and UK plates. Surely there must have been French cars in Belgium, yes? Irish passports; I'll save that for future consideration, but he is on contract to the intelligence services, so I don't believe passports would have been a problem. On the Air Bridge you were allowed 3/4 tank of gas, just to let you know. In Oostende, he had just killed a man and it's all gone wrong, so I think he would want to get away from the area. Taunton, do you know the Royal Astor hotel; that's where he checked in.

A French car in Belgium would be quite normal, but which side would the steering-wheel be?

 

[randyrippley]

Yes a Belgian registered car would stick out like a sore thumb in France because they had flimsy white background number plates with red text whereas in France the plates were more robust and black background with aluminium text.
I remember in a the 1960s being told by a French family I was staying with that the Belgians were all dangerous drivers and their white and red number plates stood out as a warning to others!

Meanwhile, if this evocative pre-war poster illustration by Leslie Carr don’t stir the nostalgic juices then I don’t know what does....

Belgian number plates are (or at least were) issued to a driver, not to a specific car. When a car is bought/sold, the plates stay with the owner and are transferred to the replacement vehicle. Leads to the crazy situation where a new car could carry a decades-old rusty plate. And replacing the plates new-for-old with the same number wasn't allowed

 

[32475]

Belgian number plates are (or at least were) issued to a driver, not to a specific car. When a car is bought/sold, the plates stay with the owner and are transferred to the replacement vehicle. Leads to the crazy situation where a new car could cary a decades-old rusty plate. And replacing the plates new-for-old with the same number wasn't allowed

Thanks - that explains why until not many years ago, you could see a brand new looking Belgian car with incredibly bent and tatty number plates. This is the stand out thing I have learned this week!

A look at the French Wikipedia pages suggests that in Belgium it was only in 1977 that it became necessary to take a test on the road. For a period before that there was only a written or paper test.


A French car in Belgium would be quite normal, but which side would the steering-wheel be?

A Belgian car’s steering wheel is on the left just like a French car. Indeed all of mainland Europe drives / drove on the right apart from Sweden which switched from driving on the left to the right in 1967.

 

[randyrippley]

A look at the French Wikipedia pages suggests that in Belgium it was only in 1977 that it became necessary to take a test on the road. For a period before that there was only a written or paper test.


A French car in Belgium would be quite normal, but which side would the steering-wheel be?

depends on how many crashes the driver has had....

 

[Gloster]

A Belgian car’s steering wheel is on the left just like a French car. Indeed all of mainland Europe drives / drove on the right apart from Sweden which switched from driving on the left to the right in 1967.

Indeed, but if he has both French and British numberplates, then the steering-wheel would be ‘wrong’ for one of the other. Of course there were cars that had the steering-wheel on the ‘wrong’ side for the country of registration, but it wasn’t that common. It might look a bit odd and raise someone’s interest, which presumably the central character wants to avoid.

 

[Taunton]

... I should have guessed that one of you guys would have actually have been in Oostende just as my story takes place!

If anyone wants to read a slight sidebar about our 1962 return from Ostend to Somerset, it's here

TRIVIA - Things you saw travelling on BR that you don't see today

They were small and green, and if I remember correctly, they were Palmolive soap bars, still available today. Tell us please , where from ! - thank you for that. Bad enough get blocks of proper carbolic soap to use in our local restored signal box ........(no self respecting signalman would...

www.railforums.co.uk

... I should have guessed that one of you guys would have actually have been in Oostende just as my story takes place!

Um ... 1962 ... Ostend. Even to the Belgians, if writing in English. I feel a "The Wadebridge" moment coming on ...

 

[Lloyds siding]

A look at the French Wikipedia pages suggests that in Belgium it was only in 1977 that it became necessary to take a test on the road. For a period before that there was only a written or paper test.


A French car in Belgium would be quite normal, but which side would the steering-wheel be?

The driving test only came in during the 1960s...before that you only had to be over 18 and pass a written paper. The driving test became compulsory in 1977.
(Aside: in Northern Ireland driving tests did not become compulsory until 1955.)

 

[Union St]

From the start I saw the problems with the car, but you have raised some more. I couldn't imagine him stealing a car in Belgium, so he has someone else steal a car in UK. Which one? Well, I assumed a French car would fit in well. They made the ID19 in England, so he would have a right hand drive French car with French and UK plates. He would use the French plates all the time, except for crossing borders, when he would need to swap them out.
Oostende/Ostend? So, the previous book - coming soon - was written in American English using the Chicago Manual of Style, but as you know the story was set very much in London. It's a delicate balancing act, with no easy solution, I fear.

 

[Taunton]

The ID19 was never commonly known here under that name. It was always known as the Citroen DS. Yes, they were made here, in a Citroen factory in Slough, but that was just common in the era to ship cars in crates for final assembly inside the destination, avoiding taxes. It was also a stylists ego trip, and regarded as such.

If I was going for something comparable but less head-turning I'd go for a Peugeot 404.

We went in 1962 by car for the day from Ostend across into Northern France, to a family wartime cemetery. It was a notably hard border, where the officer demanded "where, why, when returning, how much money have you got", etc, to the extent of annoying my father (recollect why we were going). All written down cumbersomely, so little chance of a covert crossing. Hardly anyone else crossing. The "car" (I was not allowed to call it a taxi), taken for the day, was a large American model, with a Flemish-speaking driver who had no English, or French. As Belgium had no car industry then there was no import tax from anywhere, hence the number of American cars in smaller European countries. Not the case in France.

 

[Gloster]

The Peugeot 403 or one of the Simcas would probably be even more of a run of the mill car in Belgium. I am not sure how common foreign cars were in Britain, if that is where it was stolen, in the 1960s (there was still a large motor industry in Britain). I know that our 1966 VW was a bit of an oddity when new. There would probably have been plenty of British makes in Belgium in 1962 as we were still trading on the goodwill of World War II. (Not so many in France, which had its own motor industry and a deeply inbred chauvinism. I know: I have lived there.)

If I have read it right, you still may have the oddity of a French registered car (when it is carrying the French plates) with only the driver in it who is sitting on the right. This is the opposite to normal and could raise suspicions, even if it is only in a bored policeman who sees something a little odd.

 

[MotCO]

I am not sure how common foreign cars were in Britain, if that is where it was stolen, in the 1960s (there was still a large motor industry in Britain).

I remember Renault Dauphins in England in the 60's, and possibly Beetles. My form master had an old Saab in the late 60's, and my French teacher had a DS19 which was a rarity (and it was left hand drive!).

 

[etr221]

Ostend/Ostende/Oostende, Dunkirk/Dunkerque/Duunkerke/Duinkerke and Dover/Douvres have not changed names; it is just that local (Dutch, French, English respectively) versions have been standardised for formal and official, and often common, use in other languages - not only for these three, but more generally (but not universally). There is always a problem for places in bilingual areas, or where there is an alternate language in common use; or where the 'standard' local language has changed (and English took its common form from the 'old' language)

In 1962, heading for a ferry from Dunkerque, would you followed signs for the boat to Douvres or Dover?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

In 1962, heading for a ferry from Dunkerque, would you followed signs for the boat to Douvres or Dover?

Or to England or Angleterre?

 

[Union St]

Thank you gents for your perceptive comments, as usual. The car is a problem. First, however, I have decided to use the Calais/Dover route to return. But I will mention the Night Ferry as part of his internal discussion. The car: he has had a "French" car stolen in England and flown over on the CAB. That makes sense. I think it also makes sense to have both UK and French/Belgium plates as well. For his originally planned three day excursion I think the French plates would be a good choice. Would anyone recognize the driver on the wrong side? Maybe, but I feel sure it would have been a better cover than an English-tagged car. But he definitely needs the English plates to cross the border (since he is English), and for returning back across the Channel, if they will take the car. Would a Peugeot be better? Possibly, but the whole situation has been rushed, so he only required a French car, no specifics. (Me and the editor can take care of the language confusion).