The rapid decline of Bournemouth’s Yellow Buses network

[Steve_B]

The E400's are still in Bournemouth but might be moving to another bus operator early next week for storage

 

[skyhigh]

There are also at least 4 Wright Geminis shown in the video - are they at Mistral's premises or still in Bournmeouth?

The caption suggests the images and video were taken around 7 months ago.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Some random bits

[...post #289 upthread...]

Thanks Richard. I didn't get the 'Grizzly Network' reference (on the map PDF) when I first saw it, but of course it makes sense now! With that and the other 'GB' references on the PDF timetables I suspect we've seen a little bit 'behind the curtain' on Morebus's project to prepare for the collapse of Yellow Buses, including I dare say the project name!

The timing of the announcement on Friday afternoon re the tendered routes (18, 33 and 36) also makes sense - Morebus were literally waiting to see if they could sign up enough ex-YB drivers so they could staff those services.

Thanks also for the clarity regarding the two companies, Bournemouth Transport Ltd trading as Yellow Buses and Yellow Coaches Ltd. Interesting that the Megabus M3 work sat within Yellow Coaches, whilst the NatEx work sat within YB - but maybe it had to be that way to fulfil NatEx requirements that a contractor cannot also compete with the NX network?

Lastly as you suggest, it seems in the future the most likely operators of yellow liveried bus vehicles on the streets of Bournemouth are going to be Yellow Coaches. Whether they can resuscitate the Yellow Buses name is another matter - I'd think they might have to buy the brand it from the administrators. Regardless, Yellow Coaches not going to be in the business of providing a bus network (though it's possible they could run a tendered service, or at least provide some procurement competition for the council.)

 

[Ken H]

Thanks Richard. I didn't get the 'Grizzly Network' reference (on the map PDF) when I first saw it, but of course it makes sense now! With that and the other 'GB' references on the PDF timetables I suspect we've seen a little bit 'behind the curtain' on Morebus's project to prepare for the collapse of Yellow Buses, including I dare say the project name!

The timing of the announcement on Friday afternoon re the tendered routes (18, 33 and 36) also makes sense - Morebus were literally waiting to see if they could sign up enough ex-YB drivers so they could staff those services.

Thanks also for the clarity regarding the two companies, Bournemouth Transport Ltd trading as Yellow Buses and Yellow Coaches Ltd. Interesting that the Megabus M3 work sat within Yellow Coaches, whilst the NatEx work sat within YB - but maybe it had to be that way to fulfil NatEx requirements that a contractor cannot also compete with the NX network?

Lastly as you suggest, it seems in the future the most likely operators of yellow liveried bus vehicles on the streets of Bournemouth are going to be Yellow Coaches. Whether they can resuscitate the Yellow Buses name is another matter - I'd think they might have to buy the brand it from the administrators. Regardless, Yellow Coaches not going to be in the business of providing a bus network (though it's possible they could run a tendered service, or at least provide some procurement competition for the council.)

If Yellow Coaches try to grab some Bournemouth Transport Ltd work, I assume thats quite legal. Think its called phoenix trading.

 

[PTR 444]

Thanks Richard. I didn't get the 'Grizzly Network' reference (on the map PDF) when I first saw it, but of course it makes sense now! With that and the other 'GB' references on the PDF timetables I suspect we've seen a little bit 'behind the curtain' on Morebus's project to prepare for the collapse of Yellow Buses, including I dare say the project name!

Re Grizzly Network, were More planning to use Buster Bear if they had bought the rights to Yellow Buses?

If this was the case I don’t quite follow why they’d want to name the newly acquired network of routes after a relatively unknown mascot which has only been around for four years. Surely it would have made more sense to have a Yellows sub-brand for the former YB routes (like there currently is a Unibus sub-brand). This is all academic now however due to the current situation.

 

[Adsy125]

Seem to be a lot of deckers on the m1/m2 as well, including at least six of the new 22-plate Uni buses.

Deckers have been running around on m1/m2 for much of the summer I think, I can't comment on that being a change in preparation for this or not though.

 

[Wychwood93]

This morning we had a normal 23 from Burton to Christchurch - then a Bluestar single #1 through to Boscombe, following a Salisbury Reds 'Park and ride' through Southbourne ( on a #33?). Assorted #1a with UNI buses - by the time I had pointed assorted bits out to the wife it was a 'that's enough'. Having lived around here all our lives it was somewhat strange to see nothing in yellow. Our childhood was rooted in the 38 Bournemouth/Salisbury and the 15 or 15a - one (both?) of the latter started from Christchurch station, where the down side bike area is now. All the best to More and what happens downstream.

 

[James H]

Double deckers are quite common on m1/m2 outside school and university term time - been normal practice for some years

 

[E-Rail]

Double deckers are quite common on m1/m2 outside school and university term time - been normal practice for some years

They've been common since the idiotic decision to replace the B7RLE fleet on the m1/m2 with ridiculous e200 MMCs.

They're also used when available to mitigate the effects of the extensive number of lost journeys on m1/m2 currently.

 

[Snow1964]

Double deckers are quite common on m1/m2 outside school and university term time - been normal practice for some years

If I have got my sums correct, Morebus replacement requires about 35 extra buses.

Seems they have used the new University fleet, some borrowed buses (Salisbury red, blue star etc), some from reserve fleets. However I do wonder where they will get the extra buses from when school and university terms start, and the borrowed buses need to be sent back.

I am guessing most spare buses (in term term) in GoAhead fleet (nationally) are probably at least 10 years old (if not nearer 15 years old) so wonder how they will add to the fleet in longer term.

 

[Surreyman]

I think Andrew Wickham and his management team are to be congratulated on how they have handled this. As other posters have stated, Go South Coast started planning for this several weeks ago.
It's also very fortunate that the schools/colleges are out and as has been mentioned many times, new E400MMC for Unibus had just been delivered.
Wouldn't have thought they would have a problem acquiring extra vehicles for September, if not from within Go Ahead group, then I am sure the likes of Ensign could provide long or short term vehicles.

 

[baza585]

They've been common since the idiotic decision to replace the B7RLE fleet on the m1/m2 with ridiculous e200 MMCs.

They're also used when available to mitigate the effects of the extensive number of lost journeys on m1/m2 currently.

Indeed. Yellow Bus's collapse has given Go South Coast an influx of trained drivers that they desperately needed. They were borrowing drivers from other GA companies (particularly London) and getting c100 trained drivers, even if they don't all stick, has solved that problem.

I guess they will scour Group for buses before September; what they find may only be fit for schools but they can juggle the better stuff around. They do run a lot of schools and college contracts across their patch

I'm not GSC's biggest fan but they have done really well to get services up and running this quickly. Fair play to management and staff concerned.

 

[341o2]

There will be the six vehicles running the New Forest Tour from September 19. Wonder where they will go. One of the blue tour buses was in Swanage earlier this year, and a Bluestar bus in Lymington depot recently. I've seen Morebus buses on Bluestar 6. Once there was a Southern Vectis bus based at Lymington.

It would be nice if the Bournemouth buses could be rebranded, say Bournemouth Reds, and agree that it is strange, Bournemouth holds childhood memories of a school exchange, we came down from London to Southbourne, the Bournemouth children had a holiday in London, and Bournemouth's buses were always yellow

 

[jammy36]

I think Andrew Wickham and his management team are to be congratulated on how they have handled this.

Agreed, whatever the whys and wherefores that led us to this situation, Go South Coast's (GSC) response has been very, very well executed. It must be remembered that Yellow Buses (YB) only entered administration on 29 July with the (public) expectation that a buyer would be found. That GSC have not only established a replacement network, transferred vehicles, and recruited former YB drivers, but also provided paper timetables on buses, had customer service advisors on the ground assisting passengers, ensured (with assistance from the Local Authority) that real time countdown displays were updated, and provided replacement bus stop timetables is an exemplary effort. Plus honouring existing YB tickets for the first week of operation... well done.

 

[PTR 444]

So with Morebus now running most of YB’s former routes in the exact same number as they did, is the company planning to undergo a full recast/rationalisation of bus services within the Bournemouth & Poole conurbation in the short to medium term? I wonder if some routes in Poole will begin to receive suffixes to keep as many easy to remember single digit routes as possible (for example, renumbering the Poole - Wimborne 4 as the 3a to allow the higher number to be retained for the Bournemouth - Castlepoint route), while ensuring that no number is repeated twice within the conurbation on separate corridors.

 

[duncanp]

So with Morebus now running most of YB’s former routes in the exact same number as they did, is the company planning to undergo a full recast/rationalisation of bus services within the Bournemouth & Poole conurbation in the short to medium term? I wonder if some routes in Poole will begin to receive suffixes to keep as many easy to remember single digit routes as possible (for example, renumbering the Poole - Wimborne 4 as the 3a to allow the higher number to be retained for the Bournemouth - Castlepoint route), while ensuring that no number is repeated twice within the conurbation on separate corridors.

I would imagine a service revision is quite likely later on this year.

They will have to balance demand with the number of staff available, and perhaps eliminate over provision of services on sections of route where there was direct competition with Yellow Buses.

 

[Dai Corner]

Roger French (retired bus company manager, now blogger) went to Bournemouth yesterday and writes about the transfer of work here. https://busandtrainuser.com/2022/08/07/more-more-in-bournemouth/

This paragraph sums it up I think

The whole exercise is a text book example of dealing with the unusual circumstances faced by the Go South Coast team. Bournemouth’s residents and former Yellow Buses staff are very lucky to have had the Go South Coast team’s unwavering commitment to make the new arrangements work with little or no disruption.

 

[PTR 444]

I would imagine a service revision is quite likely later on this year.

They will have to balance demand with the number of staff available, and perhaps eliminate over provision of services on sections of route where there was direct competition with Yellow Buses.

It will be interesting to see which numbers are used. The only ones between 1 and 20 which aren’t taken by Morebus are 7*, 12 and 19, so they might have to resort to using prefixes, suffixes or less memorable higher numbers.

Saying that though, Morebus may do some crazy things to keep things rationalised, such as diverting the ex-YB 5/5a to Poole along the Morebus 14 route and giving the whole route the latter number to distinguish it from the other 5 to Canford Heath.

* Although there is already a 7A, 7B and 7C, so may not be used for this reason.

 

[Andyh82]

There will be the six vehicles running the New Forest Tour from September 19. Wonder where they will go. One of the blue tour buses was in Swanage earlier this year, and a Bluestar bus in Lymington depot recently. I've seen Morebus buses on Bluestar 6. Once there was a Southern Vectis bus based at Lymington.

It would be nice if the Bournemouth buses could be rebranded, say Bournemouth Reds, and agree that it is strange, Bournemouth holds childhood memories of a school exchange, we came down from London to Southbourne, the Bournemouth children had a holiday in London, and Bournemouth's buses were always yellow

I’ve never liked the fleetname “more”, what is it supposed to signify?

 

[Adsy125]

I’ve never liked the fleetname “more”, what is it supposed to signify?

The originally had some branding on the buses along the lines of "more frequent", "more comfortable" etc etc, that's all been dropped now but I think the brand stays on because it's well recognised now.

 

[PTR 444]

The originally had some branding on the buses along the lines of "more frequent", "more comfortable" etc etc, that's all been dropped now but I think the brand stays on because it's well recognised now.

When the More brand was introduced in 2004, it was confined to the high frequency m1/m2 routes which were launched at the same time. It wasn’t until 2012 when the Dorset side of Wilts & Dorset was rebranded to More to distinguish it from its Salisbury operations.

 

[BenS123]

The originally had some branding on the buses along the lines of "more frequent", "more comfortable" etc etc, that's all been dropped now but I think the brand stays on because it's well recognised now.

Yesterday there was a sign saying "more seats upstairs" on one of the buses, must have been from the same time!

 

[317 forever]

Although there are more More buses in Bournemouth than last week, there are fewer buses there in total compared to last week.

 

[Surreyman]

Although there are more More buses in Bournemouth than last week, there are fewer buses there in total compared to last week.

Please Sir, I want more!!

 

[geoffk]

When the dust has settled on this, the Bournemouth & Poole conurbation would surely best be served by one bus operator, since Wilts & Dorset (now Morebus) would have been barred from bidding for Yellow Buses by the Monopolies & Mergers Commission (now the Competition & Markets Authority). The CMA evidently understands nothing about transport, since competition is between public transport and the car, not between bus companies, and has been since before 1986. With such a small share of the local transport market, no bus operator can possibly be said to have a monopoly.

In the end, since no buyer for Yellow Buses was found, Morebus was able to register some or all of their routes without CMA interference. Stagecoach did just this a few years ago when First withdrew from north Devon. The downside for the YB staff is that TUPE does not apply in these circumstances, although their drivers have been encouraged to join Morebus with a £3,000 "golden hello".

The Competition authorities expect two bus operators running along the same road to compete in the same way as supermarkets do, with Tesco and Morrison’s competing on price for customers. But of course buses are nothing like supermarkets. I can do all my shopping at Tesco or all of it at Morrison’s but to use public transport I may need to use more than one operator and if that's made inconvenient by two buses turning up together and charging different fares then I won't bother. Arguably the CMA and its predecessors have done more harm to bus services over the last 36 years (is it really that long?), by its insistence on ideological purity, than any other organisation.

Surely this is not the same CMA which is not interested in the closure of small town banks - a situation which eliminates choice in banking services. Come to think of it, why is there only one CMA? Surely there should be two of them in competition!

 

[Roger1973]

The downside for the YB staff is that TUPE does not apply in these circumstances, although their drivers have been encouraged to join Morebus with a £3,000 "golden hello".

and would (if they had more than 2 years' service in) be entitled to a redundancy payment, even if this is paid from the government fund for circumstances where companies are insolvent.

why is there only one CMA? Surely there should be two of them in competition!

At one time it was a Monster Raving Loony Party manifesto commitment to establish a second Monopolies Commission.

 

[37114]

I think Andrew Wickham and his management team are to be congratulated on how they have handled this. As other posters have stated, Go South Coast started planning for this several weeks ago.
It's also very fortunate that the schools/colleges are out and as has been mentioned many times, new E400MMC for Unibus had just been delivered.
Wouldn't have thought they would have a problem acquiring extra vehicles for September, if not from within Go Ahead group, then I am sure the likes of Ensign could provide long or short term vehicles.

I would have thought the ex Johnsons leased Enviro 400mmcs that YB had and are now for sale would be of interest bearing in mind they are a type extensively used by More and are already in the right location.

 

[Surreyman]

I would have thought the ex Johnsons leased Enviro 400mmcs that YB had and are now for sale would be of interest bearing in mind they are a type extensively used by More and are already in the right location.

With both Yellow Bus & HCT - Yorkshire closing down, there will be plenty of vehicles available, I see the 'owned' part of Yellow buses fleet is now being auctioned on-line.
The leased part of the fleet will also be available.
I imagine that More/Go-South Coast will, if at all possible, try to minimise expenditure and only acquire extra vehicles if absolutely necessary.
Better to buy new Euro 6 to your own spec and allocate/cascade as best you see fit.
There are no plans (that I am aware of) to bring in an LEZ/CAZ (or general Euro 6 commitment)in the Poole/Bournemouth/Christchurch conurbation, which takes the pressure off compared to some areas.

 

[SW Buses]

Is anyone able to list what routes are now run from Go South Coast’s Bournemouth depot?

Thanks.

 

[Dorsetbus]

Is anyone able to list what routes are now run from Go South Coast’s Bournemouth depot?

Thanks.

All of the yellow routes 13,m1,m2 u1,u2,u3,u4 and I belive some 16/17.