The Southwest trains class 158/9

[Julian Hornby]

Southwest trains operate 159 trains on West of England Main Line and they operate their 158s on the Eastleigh to Romsey Line. Sometimes they send 159 services from Salisbury to Bristol or Portsmouth. These trains are reliable, comfortable and quick. Southwest trains upgraded their fleet so the interior is so much nicer than a typical northern rail 158. Southwest trains use Richmond style seating instead of Chapman (Richmond is a lot nicer). They're fully carpeted and are constantly maintained to a high standard. Please tell me, why can't northern rail achieve this? Not only do Northern rail have the oldest fleet out of all the operators, they rarely clean their trains and don't look after the interiors. If they're going to have older trains the least they can do is take care of their interiors on them.
Thank you for reading,
Julian

 

[DarloRich]

Who will pay for it?

 

[junglejames]

Northern dont have the slack in their fleet, so keeping them spotless isnt as easy. They have very little down time. SWT have loads of slack in their fleet of DMUs, so have plenty of time to keep them spotless.

 

[yorkie]

Please tell me, why can't northern rail achieve this?

They can, but they are not prepared to pay for it!

Well, it would be the leasing companies who pay for it, but they need to recoup that money from the operator.

Also as junglejames says, they'd need more spare stock if they were to undertake a comprehensive refurbishment program.

Not only do Northern rail have the oldest fleet out of all the operators, they rarely clean their trains and don't look after the interiors. If they're going to have older trains the least they can do is take care of their interiors on them.
Thank you for reading,
Julian

People often moan about Northern's trains being "old" but you're right in that it doesn't matter how old a train is, what matters is how well looked after it is, and that it's refurbished to a high standard.

I can think of several older trains that look almost new inside, compared to newer trains that look very tatty indeed.

But there's no prospect of Northern's fleet of 158s being upgraded to the same quality as SWT's 159s at all. It just won't happen.

 

[Mugby]

I travelled on a SWT 159 down to Basingstoke last year and I fully agree they are very comfortable and pleasant to ride in.

If only the Stagecoach EMT 158's were the same, sure they were refurbished to a high standard but the interiors with their very high backed seats and lack of forward vision are not pleasant.

 

[starrymarkb]

While there is slack in the 158 fleet there isn't so much in the 159 fleet (iirc they need 27 out of 30 for daily use)

Where SWT do have the advantage is most of the fleet comes back to Salisbury each night (or at least passes it a few times per day), other operator's fleets tend to be outstationed away from their depots

 

[bnm]

SWT Richmond seating in the 158/159. Far too soft. Promotes poor posture.

 

[Kite159]

The routes SWT use the DMUs on are quite limited compared to other TOCs.

Waterloo to Salisbury/Exeter/Bristol (including any services which terminate at Yeovil) and Salisbury to Romsey loop.

I can imagine the Northern fleet's route coverage is a lot more spread out.

 

[Lrd]

Waterloo to Salisbury/Exeter/Bristol (including any services which terminate at Yeovil) and Salisbury to Romsey loop.

As well as Basingstoke/Winchester - Southampton/Totton, Portsmouth - Eastleigh, Portsmouth - Southampton, Brockenhurst - Lymington.

 

[junglejames]

SWT Richmond seating in the 158/159. Far too soft. Promotes poor posture.

Thats entirely down to individuals. All this stuff about good and bad posture etc is rubbish. Its a simple case of some people find certain seats comfy, whilst others prefer different seats.
I keep hearing how seats with lumbar support are better for you. Well if giving you back ache is better for you, then i suppose it must be true, because thats all i get from lumbar support.

I myself prefer to stay on the train. Not be stuck on a seat which makes me think about jumping off at 100mph.

 

[arty762]

I rode on a 159 from Waterloo to Bath and back in first class , the seats are amazingly comfey and the ride was superb , the next day i rode first class to Portsmouth and back on a 450 then a 444 , ithought that they were more uncomfortabe than the 159.

 

[bnm]

All this stuff about good and bad posture etc is rubbish. Its a simple case of some people find certain seats comfy, whilst others prefer different seats.

Peer reviewed scientific studies are rubbish now are they?

 

[fgwrich]

Southwest trains operate 159 trains on West of England Main Line and they operate their 158s on the Eastleigh to Romsey Line. Sometimes they send 159 services from Salisbury to Bristol or Portsmouth. These trains are reliable, comfortable and quick. Southwest trains upgraded their fleet so the interior is so much nicer than a typical northern rail 158. Southwest trains use Richmond style seating instead of Chapman (Richmond is a lot nicer). They're fully carpeted and are constantly maintained to a high standard. Please tell me, why can't northern rail achieve this? Not only do Northern rail have the oldest fleet out of all the operators, they rarely clean their trains and don't look after the interiors. If they're going to have older trains the least they can do is take care of their interiors on them.
Thank you for reading,
Julian

Wrong, that accolade IIRC was recently shown as First Great Western, who manages the opposite of what Northern achieves in stock maintenance and cleanliness.

 

[ryan125hst]

People often moan about Northern's trains being "old" but you're right in that it doesn't matter how old a train is, what matters is how well looked after it is, and that it's refurbished to a high standard.

I can think of several older trains that look almost new inside

HST's are a very good example of this. East Coast's HST's have felt like new trains since the refurbishment a few years ago (excluding the vestibules and slam doors- the only evidence that it's an old train).

I'm sure most of Chiltern's commuters have been fooled by the Mark 3's operating there, especially with the plug doors now fitted.

 

[Julian Hornby]

Agreed
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I forgot those XD
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I don't see how a soft seat gives bad posture. I'd rather have a comfortable seat anyday
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Well said.

 

[Aictos]

Only reason why the SWT 158s/159s get such get great praise regarding the cleaniness of the interiors is because they have enough slack in the fleet to be able to take more care with the upkeep of said units - other operators don't have the luxury in that they can easily loan out their trains to other operators like SWT can.

 

[387star]

NO SWT 158/9s have original seating except First Class which are just fine

Richmond seating is quite possibly the most vile seating in the country unless you fancy sitting on springs

 

[junglejames]

Peer reviewed scientific studies are rubbish now are they?

yep, Id say so.
All i know is these uncomfortable but supposedly good for me seats just lead to me aching everywhere, and wondering how easy it is to jump off at 100mph.
But give me a comfortable, but apparently no good for me seat, and i can sit and relax, and never want to leave. Oh, and without feeling a single pain.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

NO SWT 158/9s have original seating except First Class which are just fine

Richmond seating is quite possibly the most vile seating in the country unless you fancy sitting on springs

I have no idea who fits what, to me they are seats. Some comfy, most not so. But the 158s and 159s with SWT definitely are very comfy in my opinion.
Whether that be Richmond seating or Freds of Penzance seating coorporation.

 

[Goatboy]

I love the seats on an SWT 158/159. Very comfortable. Infact the best DMU's in the country. I'd happily sit on one for 9 hours to Scotland in favour of a Voyager..

 

[cjmillsnun]

I love the seats on an SWT 158/159. Very comfortable. Infact the best DMU's in the country. I'd happily sit on one for 9 hours to Scotland in favour of a Voyager..

I'd agree with that. SWT's fleet is generally very well presented and their 158/9s are very nice and comfy. All they really could do with (like any long distance train) is a proper buffet.

And yes I'll go against peer reviewed surveys too. Because every person is different. We're not all the same size and shape. This means that there is no seat that suits everyone. I'm not of average height and therefore find the supposed good posture seats extremely uncomfortable. Mainly because the support is in the wrong places on my back.

I understand my preference doesn't suit other people. There's no easy answer for this.

 

[BestWestern]

I rode on a 159 from Waterloo to Bath and back in first class , the seats are amazingly comfey and the ride was superb , the next day i rode first class to Portsmouth and back on a 450 then a 444 , ithought that they were more uncomfortabe than the 159.

Sadly, as with many recent orders and refurbs, thr Desiro fleet has been fitted with truly abysmal seating, drastically lacking in padding or comfort and cleary not appropriate for the long distance 444 fleet, even if it could argued it's bearable for a short run on a refurbed 455 (uses of the 450 fleet are a whole different discussion of course!). First class seating is obviously better, but that doesn't help the majority!

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Maybe it's just me, but I've taken the offer of a £5 weekend upgrade from Waterloo - Trowbridge once, I wasn't too fond of the seating to be honest, and actually preferred the padded seats in standard, might just be me who finds the first class seats a bit less padded.

The comfy seats is one reason I've taken a liking to riding a 159 to London instead of going up to Bath then across on a HST.

 

[fgwrich]

Maybe it's just me, but I've taken the offer of a £5 weekend upgrade from Waterloo - Trowbridge once, I wasn't too fond of the seating to be honest, and actually preferred the padded seats in standard, might just be me who finds the first class seats a bit less padded.

The comfy seats is one reason I've taken a liking to riding a 159 to London instead of going up to Bath then across on a HST.

I agree, we were offered an upgrade once and without meaning to be rude, turned it down and stayed in Standard - I'm not a fan of those large padded seats in FC either, probably not helped by being right above the bogie either.

 

[al.currie93]

HST's are a very good example of this. East Coast's HST's have felt like new trains since the refurbishment a few years ago (excluding the vestibules and slam doors- the only evidence that it's an old train).

I'm sure most of Chiltern's commuters have been fooled by the Mark 3's operating there, especially with the plug doors now fitted.

I agree with this; I did a test to see if average joe would know that a HST was nearly 30 years older than a Pendolino... some actually said that the HST was newer...

It's all about how they're kept, not age

 

[baza585]

Only reason why the SWT 158s/159s get such get great praise regarding the cleaniness of the interiors is because they have enough slack in the fleet to be able to take more care with the upkeep of said units - other operators don't have the luxury in that they can easily loan out their trains to other operators like SWT can.

Indeed, as a regular traveller on the FGW Cardiff-Pompey service, it is a source of immense frustration that we pass SWT 158s and 159s sat idle in the sidings whilst the FGW service is full and standing. Not just at weekends, but off peak in the week. Whilst no-one denies Salisbury do a great job, their DMUs have an easier life than other certain TOCs that operate 158s IMHO. And it shows.

 

[Goatboy]

Indeed, as a regular traveller on the FGW Cardiff-Pompey service, it is a source of immense frustration that we pass SWT 158s and 159s sat idle in the sidings whilst the FGW service is full and standing. Not just at weekends, but off peak in the week. Whilst no-one denies Salisbury do a great job, their DMUs have an easier life than other certain TOCs that operate 158s IMHO. And it shows.

If you want to pick on the annoying 158 it has to be the clean, comfortable, long distance 158 that goes between Lymington and Brockenhurst all day whilst FGW passengers sit on 150's for 4 hours

 

[Helvellyn]

Indeed, as a regular traveller on the FGW Cardiff-Pompey service, it is a source of immense frustration that we pass SWT 158s and 159s sat idle in the sidings whilst the FGW service is full and standing. Not just at weekends, but off peak in the week. Whilst no-one denies Salisbury do a great job, their DMUs have an easier life than other certain TOCs that operate 158s IMHO. And it shows.

Well off-peak a lot of units come back from Waterloo and sit at Salisbury before heading to Waterloo in the evening. You just have to see how full Clapham is in the day to understand a lot of Desiro trains only make a couple of trips too - that's the nature of the beast when 40% of your passengers arrive at Waterloo between 06:00 and 09:00.

 

[455driver]

If you want to pick on the annoying 158 it has to be the clean, comfortable, long distance 158 that goes between Lymington and Brockenhurst all day whilst FGW passengers sit on 150's for 4 hours

Oh for Gods sake not that old chestnut again!:roll:

 

[cjmillsnun]

Indeed, as a regular traveller on the FGW Cardiff-Pompey service, it is a source of immense frustration that we pass SWT 158s and 159s sat idle in the sidings whilst the FGW service is full and standing. Not just at weekends, but off peak in the week. Whilst no-one denies Salisbury do a great job, their DMUs have an easier life than other certain TOCs that operate 158s IMHO. And it shows.

Not a lot you can do with the route being a commuter route though. At peak times most of the fleet are out.

 

[Parallel]

Not a lot you can do with the route being a commuter route though. At peak times most of the fleet are out.

It's a shame that this stock can't be used to provide more services to Exeter and Bristol though in the off-peak times!