Time to abolish 1p and 2p coins?

[upasalmon]

2021 marks the 50th anniversary of the introduction of decimal currency (DC) in the UK and Eire. In the three years prior to the change the shilling and two shilling coins were replaced by 5p and 10p coins, and the 10 shilling note replaced by a strange shaped 50p coin. These were exact equivalents and caused no problem. But then on 15 Feb 1971 the ½p (abolished 1984), 1p and 2p copper coins were introduced. Some aggravation might have been avoided if they had a £1 of 100 cents to prevent the confusion of "d" and "p" pennies, but the problem soon largely disappeared as the public grudgingly accepted DC.
Years of inflation have rendered the 1p and 2p coins virtually worthless. Bus and rail fares are.. denominated in 5p and 10p steps. I think the time has come to abolish the 1p and 2p coins, and the Royal Mint has stopped minting 2p coins until 2030, but I can't see them being minted ever again. The argument against rounding is because it usually means rounding UP. To be honest most people wouldn't feel a 4p price rise these days(in 1971 it would have caused uproar). With paperless transactions the pennies aren't noticed. Perhaps for a short term measure supermarkets could offer e.g. £1 per £20 spent off the price.No bus driver or ticket office would be pleased to take even up to 20p in copper which is legal tender maximum.
I have an idea for the abolished coins . Scrap the £5 note and replace it with a blue tinted seven sided coin with a Braille 5 in the centre. This coin would be the same size as the previous 50p coin. These blue £5 coins could be made by melting down the 1p and 2p coins. Any Thoughts?

 

[py_megapixel]

You may find this YouTube video interesting. Though it's from a US perspective, it is the same concept.

I have an idea for the abolished coins . Scrap the £5 note and replace it with a blue tinted seven sided coin with a Braille 5 in the centre. This coin would be the same size as the previous 50p coin. These blue £5 coins could be made by melting down the 1p and 2p coins. Any Thoughts?

I would not be in favour of scrapping the £5 note... in my opinion £5 is too big of a denomination to be a coin, and £5 notes are now gradually starting to be available from cash machines; wouldn't want to undo all that work.

 

[thejuggler]

I can't remember the last time I had change in my pocket. Even before Covid I rarely used cash, now I never do. The £30 in my wallet has been there for well over a month.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I think there are only two incentives to the penny coins.

The first is marketing pricing strategies when a company advertise products at say £19.99 instead of £20. Many people pay electronically these days which wouldn't make a difference, but 1ps would still be needed for cash payments.

The other big consideration is that charities will lose out massively if copper coins are abolished. How easy is it to put 1p change into a collection box when you buy a pint in the pub or buy a loaf of bread in the local shop.

Also the large whiskey bottles filled with copper coins would become a thing of the past!!!!!

CJ

 

[upasalmon]

Well they said the same about the 1d, 3d and 6d coins when they were scrapped and replaced by the ½p, 1p and 2p coins. Also the 50p coin was disliked by those who preferred the 10 shilling note. 'Save the Ten Bob Note" was the cry. I doubt if the £5 of 2020 would purchase the same items as the 10s. note did in 1969. The £5 of today is worth less than the old pound note when it was abolished in the 1980s. Also the fiver is printed on polymer paper as the previous notes were ragged. Because of forgery security features add to the production cost. As for 99p, £1.99 etc 95p and £1.95 could be substituted but I am immune to £99.99 being trumpeted as UNDER £100! - BIG DEAL. Most large stores have some form of loyalty card and perhaps extra points could replace the pennies .

 

[GusB]

I can see them being abolished eventually, but they are actually a handy way of saving for some. All my pocket change goes into a bowl when I get home and I only pick up the silver when I go out again. Eventually the copper and 5p coins go into separate jars and I occasionally take them into town to get them changed. I've seen me having £50-60 of loose change, which has been a godsend on a few occasions.

 

[upasalmon]

P.S 5p and 10p coins aren't worth that much and could replace the copper given to charities. Charity collectors tend to ask for bank details as they want direct debits. Sorry but I'm not divulging mine, I d rather put 50p or £1 in a tin for a worthy cause.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Charities are increasingly using contactless machines for collections, here a few charities use a special contactless machine that will charge £1 or £2 when tapped. IOM Hospice is very fondly regarded here and many corner shops have contactless machines for them.

Australia hasn't had 1c and 2c coins for a very long time. It is swings and roundabouts, you could normally get away with putting 2-3c extra petrol in, for instance, but equally it was inflationary.

But why abolish them? There seems no point unless they cost more than their face value to make and manage, which the Royal Mint says they don't.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

But why abolish them? There seems no point unless they cost more than their face value to make and manage, which the Royal Mint says they don't.

My late father-in-law a strong socialist Labour voter said abolishing the 1/2 p was an excuse to put prices up. He would definitely say the same about this. In 1984 there was a Conservative government in office and what do you know there is now. My 2 pennorth

 

[C J Snarzell]

Charities still need the collection boxes and buckets to keep funds rolling in and 1p and 2ps are vital. Card payments are fine but in the grand scheme of things alot of people living on the breadline or pensioners on a state budget can't always afford to donate £1 here or £2 there.

Theres also alot of people wary about divulging their bank details for obvious reasons. People that are a little hard up maybe are still willing to put some lose change of copper into a container to help those more disadvantaged. This should still be encouraged, but it would happen much less if the copper coins were abolished.

CJ

 

[crablab]

My late father-in-law a strong socialist Labour voter said abolishing the 1/2 p was an excuse to put prices up.

Do it at the point RPI/CPI takes effect and then it's just inflation :P

---

In Canada they don't have small change, stuff still works over there. Things are just rounded down/up to the nearest 5. And anyway, most people pay by electronic means so it doesn't matter to them.

 

[C J Snarzell]

The Royal Mint were apparently considering discontinuing the £50 note not so long back. It now appears that they have made a U-turn on this and are going ahead with new polymer £50 note next year.

Unlike 1ps and 2ps, does anyone actually use them anymore? I have never had one in my possession for a long long time and alot of businesses do not accept them.

CJ

 

[mmh]

Unlike 1ps and 2ps, does anyone actually use them anymore? I have never had one in my possession for a long long time and alot of businesses do not accept them.

I think there in a nutshell is why "never trust a policeman" is an unfortunately wise sentiment.

 

[route101]

I think there in a nutshell is why "never trust a policeman" is an unfortunately wise sentiment.

Never come across somewhere that has not accepted them? Why is that>

 

[yorksrob]

2021 marks the 50th anniversary of the introduction of decimal currency (DC) in the UK and Eire. In the three years prior to the change the shilling and two shilling coins were replaced by 5p and 10p coins, and the 10 shilling note replaced by a strange shaped 50p coin. These were exact equivalents and caused no problem. But then on 15 Feb 1971 the ½p (abolished 1984), 1p and 2p copper coins were introduced. Some aggravation might have been avoided if they had a £1 of 100 cents to prevent the confusion of "d" and "p" pennies, but the problem soon largely disappeared as the public grudgingly accepted DC.
Years of inflation have rendered the 1p and 2p coins virtually worthless. Bus and rail fares are.. denominated in 5p and 10p steps. I think the time has come to abolish the 1p and 2p coins, and the Royal Mint has stopped minting 2p coins until 2030, but I can't see them being minted ever again. The argument against rounding is because it usually means rounding UP. To be honest most people wouldn't feel a 4p price rise these days(in 1971 it would have caused uproar). With paperless transactions the pennies aren't noticed. Perhaps for a short term measure supermarkets could offer e.g. £1 per £20 spent off the price.No bus driver or ticket office would be pleased to take even up to 20p in copper which is legal tender maximum.
I have an idea for the abolished coins . Scrap the £5 note and replace it with a blue tinted seven sided coin with a Braille 5 in the centre. This coin would be the same size as the previous 50p coin. These blue £5 coins could be made by melting down the 1p and 2p coins. Any Thoughts?

"D E C E M esimalisation,

We call it, decimalisation,

Decimalisation,

Soon it's gonna be time to change the money round"

As it happens, a lot of the 2 and 1 shilling coins remained in circulation for decades after decimalisation as five and ten pence coins.

 

[tbtc]

I'm surprised nobody seems to be suggesting a middle ground of stopping making 2p coins, letting the current ones circulate but with no replacements... keep making small amounts of replacement 1p coins though

Personally, lockdown has made me realise how little I use cash - and how inconvenient change is - change used to be useful when buses required small denomination coins, but since they've gone contactless the only time I pay cash is when I play five-a-side (which hasn't been for over six months, for obvious reasons!)

Actually abolishing copper coins would mean every price had to rounded to the nearest five pence, which would cause a lot of disruption to the economy (when businesses have plenty of other things to deal with)

As for £50 notes, there's not much legitimate need for them these days, seems odd to be making more of them (but maybe the schtick is that scrapping the current notes will force "black market" operators to start integrating their money in legitimate businesses - I guess that's for a whole other thread though...

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not sure how anyone obtains a fifty pound note as none of the ATM's give them out.

That said, I did do a legitimate £150 cash transaction a couple of weeks ago, buying my football season ticket.

 

[crablab]

I'm not sure how anyone obtains a fifty pound note as none of the ATM's give them out.

I understand that people buying sterling abroad often get large denomination notes.

 

[yorksrob]

I understand that people buying sterling abroad often get large denomination notes.

Ah. I must admit, I don't go abroad that often.

 

[gswindale]

Actually abolishing copper coins would mean every price had to rounded to the nearest five pence, which would cause a lot of disruption to the economy (when businesses have plenty of other things to deal with)

No it wouldn't!

As stated elsewhere in this thread, Canada doesn't have any low value coinage. Prices there are still quoted as $x.xx and are not restricted to multiples of 5 cents. Pay for something by card there and you will pay the exact amount (I'm sure I've still got receipts showing this). It is only when you pay by cash that it gets interesting - buy one item at $9.99 and it'll cost you $10. Buy 3 of them and it'll cost $29.95 as it is the total that gets rounded, not the individual items.

"D E C E M esimalisation,

We call it, decimalisation,

Decimalisation,

Soon it's gonna be time to change the money round"

As it happens, a lot of the 2 and 1 shilling coins remained in circulation for decades after decimalisation as five and ten pence coins.

I believe they only left circulation when the decision was made to shrink the size of the coins - I certainly remember as a child in the late 80s/early 90s buying things with coins with a portrait of George V(?) on!

 

[yorksrob]

No it wouldn't!

As stated elsewhere in this thread, Canada doesn't have any low value coinage. Prices there are still quoted as $x.xx and are not restricted to multiples of 5 cents. Pay for something by card there and you will pay the exact amount (I'm sure I've still got receipts showing this). It is only when you pay by cash that it gets interesting - buy one item at $9.99 and it'll cost you $10. Buy 3 of them and it'll cost $29.95 as it is the total that gets rounded, not the individual items.


I believe they only left circulation when the decision was made to shrink the size of the coins - I certainly remember as a child in the late 80s/early 90s buying things with coins with a portrait of George V(?) on!

Yes, that was it. I remember using 1 and 2 shilling pieces with George VI on them in the nineties.

 

[Andrew S]

I'm sure there are some countries where retail prices are stated as down to the individual 0.01 amount, but coins smaller than 0.05 or 0.10 units don't exist, so the total bill is rounded up or down to the nearest 0.10. There is a legal rounding formula to use, and till systems are set to account for the +/- amounts.

It actually wouldn't be that difficult to align prices over time to a 5p or 10p smallest unit. M&S already do that, in fact, so that they don't need small copper coins in their till floats. Many bars and restaurants also do.

In normal times I work in theatre box offices, and we've never needed smaller units than £1 and 50p coins in the floats for around the last 10 or so years, as all ticket prices are whole pounds or £XX.50.

 

[Gloster]

It was said that one of the reasons for having prices ending in 99p (and before that ending in ?/11d) was that it forced sales staff to ring the sum up and open the till on most sales as customers usually paid with a simple combination of notes or coins. The staff could not then just slip the payment into their pockets. Barcodes and readers probably make that more difficult nowadays.

 

[upasalmon]

I can remember 1d pennies with Queen Victoria on them but they vanished with decimalisation.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I believe they only left circulation when the decision was made to shrink the size of the coins - I certainly remember as a child in the late 80s/early 90s buying things with coins with a portrait of George V(?) on!

Would George the Fifth silver currency still have had actual silver content in it, and so be/have been intrinsically worth considerably more than its original face value?

 

[GusB]

I believe they only left circulation when the decision was made to shrink the size of the coins - I certainly remember as a child in the late 80s/early 90s buying things with coins with a portrait of George V(?)

I think the old shillings and florins were gradually removed from circulation prior to the introduction of the smaller 5p and 10p coins, but there must have been a fair number around for them to have lasted so long after decimalisation. I've got a few sitting in an old piggy bank somewhere.
I would guess that banks would remove them as they were received, but there must be a fair amount of coinage that never sees a bank once it's issued.

 

[Sean Davidson]

They should be just made smaller, 2p coins are heavy, make up ten one pound bags for the bank to find out.
I was once told by a scrap expert that a ton of pennies is worth more at the scrap yard than the bank.

 

[Flange Squeal]

I'm not sure how anyone obtains a fifty pound note as none of the ATM's give them out.

My grandparents really don't get on with technology beyond a basic television with Freeview and a washing machine (it wasn't that long ago they got rid of their twin tub!). Therefore they periodically go to the bank and withdraw a few months worth of cash out at a time from the cashier, and usually come back with £50 notes. God knows how they spend them though - I once got given one for my birthday and it was a nightmare trying to spend it anywhere!

As for the original question, I'd be up for losing 1p and 2p coins, but think the £5 note still has its place. That said, until this week I hadn't touched cash at all since March. All that had been in my wallet since lockdown was a fiver and a few coins. That proved a bad move when I walked into a chippy I'd not been to the other day to pick up the family dinner though, when I found they were 'cash only'! Thankfully there was a cashpoint round the corner.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The half crown did of course disappear immediately

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Royal Mint were apparently considering discontinuing the £50 note not so long back. It now appears that they have made a U-turn on this and are going ahead with new polymer £50 note next year.

I still notice that certain of our local shops, including our local chemist, have notices stating that £50 notes are not accepted. Anyone else seen such notices?