Time to abolish 1p and 2p coins?

[Bald Rick]

Though it's worth repeating that those people are likely among the and least able to deal with price increases.

It’s also worth repeating that with rounding, on average, there won’t be any.

 

[A Challenge]

It’s also worth repeating that with rounding, on average, there won’t be any.

But more things end in 99p than any other ending?

 

[Bald Rick]

But more things end in 99p than any other ending?

Sure about that? For cash purchases?

 

[radamfi]

Retailers who want to give the illusion of prices being £1 lower than they actually are will convert from £x.99 to £x.95 if 1p and 2p coins are removed and there is no rounding.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Would George the Fifth silver currency still have had actual silver content in it, and so be/have been intrinsically worth considerably more than its original face value?

This did happen, but only in the early 80s, IIRC.

"Silver" coins until 1920 (IIRC) were 92.5% silver, Ag.

From 1920 to 1946 or 47, they were 50% silver, Ag.

From then onwards, they were cupro-nickel.

In the mid-1960s you could still find pre-1920s silver coins now and again, mostly George V and Edward ... was it VII (1903 - 1910)? But on accasion, even Victoria headed coins. It's a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure I found an 1887 Victoria jubilee shilling, and one even earlier, I think. The 1887 Jubilee shilling was in VG condtion. I think the earlier one was very worn.

Rare florins were much rarer, IYSWIM, ditto half-crowns. I'm pretty sure far fewer were minted.

I can remember 1d pennies with Queen Victoria on them but they vanished with decimalisation.

Yes, from, IIRC, 1860. But most were 'old head' pennies from about 1892.

Earlier pennies, I mean, pre 1860, had long been withdrawn.

... The Scottish notes are always a problem - even though they are legal tender in England I know a lot of shops I've used over the years have turned their noses up at them.

Well, I don't know if anything has changed since, but there was an article in the Financial Times about 20 years ago which specifically stated that Scottish notes are not only not legal tender in England - but they are not legal tender in Scotland!

I kid you not.

 

[hexagon789]

I've only skimmed through the thread, so apologies if it's been suggested, but what about at least abolishing the 2p coin first?

That way you cut the costs of manufacture on that denomination but still retain the ability to pay cash in £0.01 increments?

 

[radamfi]

I've only skimmed through the thread, so apologies if it's been suggested, but what about at least abolishing the 2p coin first?

That way you cut the costs of manufacture on that denomination but still retain the ability to pay cash in £0.01 increments?

The Royal Mint have already paused manufacture of the 2p coin for at least 10 years due to excessive stock. Probably by then removing 1p and 2p will not be controversial.

 

[gswindale]

But more things end in 99p than any other ending?

But buy 3 of those things in one shop and you'll pay less by cash.

It's a system that seems to work perfectly well elsewhere, so why not here?

 

[cav1975]

It hasn't been withdrawn, ECB did not introduce a new series €500 along with all other denominations so new €500 notes are no longer being issued, however current notes (and there are a LOT of them) are still in circulation and fully valid.

Unlike British currency, despite being superseded all original series € notes remain valid indefinitely.

The obvious appeal of such high value notes in a major currency to organised crime was brought up at the time of the introduction of the € but certain countries who had a love of large denomination notes (Germany) pushed it through.

I recall travelling to Germany a few years ago and attending a business meeting in a rural area with a Turkish based colleague. His company travel department had issued him with a single €500 note as his foreign currency allowance. I had to pay all his bills (he didn't have a credit card) until he finally managed to get some change by paying his hotel bill. It is the only time that I have seen such a large value banknote.

 

[Bald Rick]

Did a quick survey in a couple of aisles in Sainsbury’s tonight (frozen food, pet food, booze). Then checked my receipt for the weekly shop.

I didnt find a single item priced at anything other than 5p /10p increments, except for loose fruit and veg. No doubt there were some items at other increments I didn’t see (or buy!), but it does show a clear trend.

 

[Bikeman78]

Yes, that was it. I remember using 1 and 2 shilling pieces with George VI on them in the nineties.

I definitely recall using one shilling and two shilling coins when I was growing up. I still have several of each stashed at mum's house. The one shilling coins went out of circulation 31/12/90 whilst the two shilling lasted until 30/6/93.

 

[trebor79]

The OPs post reminded me that the "new" 5p and 10p coins were used interchangeably with old one and two shilling coins until the early 1990's when all of the silver coins were replaced with new, smaller versions. It always struck me as a particularly British anachronism that you could have a coin bearing "5 new pence" and one dated much earlier for "One Shilling" but it was just accepted that they were both worth 5p.

I liked the older coins, I've always thought the replacement versions are a bit cheap and nasty, and in the case of the 5p far too small and fiddly.

I suspect that 1p and 2p coins will remain in circulation indefinitely, as there's no real benefit to abolishing them, but will just drift out of use.

Was it Malta that had a currency divided into cents which were then further divided into thousands? The cents were almost worthless in themselves and the smaller denomination was absolutely worthless. I did managed to get a couple of coins of it in change though!

 

[Trackman]

The OPs post reminded me that the "new" 5p and 10p coins were used interchangeably with old one and two shilling coins until the early 1990's when all of the silver coins were replaced with new, smaller versions. It always struck me as a particularly British anachronism that you could have a coin bearing "5 new pence" and one dated much earlier for "One Shilling" but it was just accepted that they were both worth 5p.

I think schillings minted before 1949 (or it could be 1948) actually had silver in them as my mate collected them.
One of his tricks was to go the local club when they emptied the snooker light meters as they took the old schillings.

 

[David Goddard]

The biggest problem with abolishing the smallest denomination coins will be for the purchase of loose product sold by volume or weight.
Take the petrol pumps the value is based on a cost per litre and you pay for exactly what you put in the car. If copper coins are gone, and a motorist puts in £25.01, will they be forced to pay £25.05?

 

[Bald Rick]

The biggest problem with abolishing the smallest denomination coins will be for the purchase of loose product sold by volume or weight.
Take the petrol pumps the value is based on a cost per litre and you pay for exactly what you put in the car. If copper coins are gone, and a motorist puts in £25.01, will they be forced to pay £25.05?

As discussed above almost everyone will pay £25.01, by card. For those that insist on using cash, they would pay £25.00.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I think schillings minted before 1949 (or it could be 1948) actually had silver in them as my mate collected them.

Think it was pre-1947 British "silver" coinage that had actual silver content, 50% if I rightly recall.

92.5% actual silver content pre-1920.

Not sure about (Austrian?) schillings though!

 

[crablab]

For those that insist on using cash, they would pay £25.00.

Usually it's rounded up?

As you say, most people would pay by card anyway so somewhat of a moot point.

 

[Bald Rick]

Usually it's rounded up?

If the coins were removed, I would expect there to be legislation requiring retailers to round to the nearest 5p, up or down.

 

[crablab]

Yup, from: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/programs/about-canada-revenue-agency-cra/phasing-penny.html

• Amounts ending in 1 cent and 2 cents are rounded down to the nearest 10 cents;
• Amounts ending in 3 cents and 4 cents are rounded up to the nearest 5 cents;
• Amounts ending in 6 cents and 7 cents are rounded down to the nearest 5 cents;
• Amounts ending in 8 cents and 9 cents are rounded up to the nearest 10 cents;
• Amounts ending in 0 cent and 5 cents remain unchanged.

 

[gswindale]

Yup, from: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/programs/about-canada-revenue-agency-cra/phasing-penny.html

That's really badly worded.

What is wrong with simply saying all amounts will be rounded to the nearest multiple of 5 cents?

It seems to be adding unnecessary confusion by switching from rounding to 5 cents to rounding to 10 cents.