Time to abolish 1p and 2p coins?

[Trackman]

Horrible.........I don't think Rangers fans endeared themselves to well with the people of Manchester. One word springs to mind - carnage!

CJ

One of the darkest nights.
I went to Picc the morning after, it was like a mass shooting- bodies everywhere on the floor.
I wonder if they really did turn off that big screen deliberately?

Back on OT slightly - When did BR start to round up to 5p?

 

[hexagon789]

Back on OT slightly - When did BR start to round up to 5p?

Late 1980s I think.

 

[lyndhurst25]

What we really need is a 99p coin, along with a £9 note.

 

[crablab]

I guess we'd better start issuing chequebooks to everyone too then...

 

[C J Snarzell]

What we really need is a 99p coin, along with a £9 note.

Reminds me of the episode of Bottom when the Eddie Hitler character is making counterfeit money. He designs a £27 note with 90s newsreader Sue Carpenter on it.

CJ

 

[xotGD]

Ive seen Greggs with notices saying they dont accept £50 notes. When i worked in retail it was usually trademen who payed in £50 and £100 notes.

I usually save the pennies and use it as spending money for a trip.

If someone tries to pay you with a £100 note then it is definitely dodgy!

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes, time for them to go. And 5p while we’re at it - it’s worth rather less than a 1/2p was at decimalisation.

The cost of minting, sorting, paying in, moving and so on of all this metal must be quite significant, and completely unnecessary.

Whilst the mint announced no new 2p or £2 coins for the next decade, I’d be surprised if much else is minted from here on in.

 

[najaB]

If someone tries to pay you with a £100 note then it is definitely dodgy!

They are pretty rare - I've been back in the UK for 15 years and only ever had one on two occasions.

 

[Bald Rick]

They are pretty rare - I've been back in the UK for 15 years and only ever had one on two occasions.

If someone tries to pay you with a £100 note then it is definitely dodgy!

To avoid confusion - it’s worth pointing out that there is a £100 note in Scotland.

 

[najaB]

Yes, time for them to go. And 5p while we’re at it - it’s worth rather less than a 1/2p was at decimalisation.

The cost of minting, sorting, paying in, moving and so on of all this metal must be quite significant, and completely unnecessary.

I can see the argument for the 1p and 2p going but the 5p is too big a denomination to go as it would mean all prices would need to end in a multiple of 10p. That would be too inflationary to be done in one go.

To avoid confusion - it’s worth pointing out that there is a £100 note in Scotland.

Thanks for that, I forgot that they aren't circulated in England. We also have £1 notes still (though they are even more rare).

 

[Bald Rick]

I can see the argument for the 1p and 2p going but the 5p is too big a denomination to go as it would mean all prices would need to end in a multiple of 10p. That would be too inflationary to be done in one go.

As has been said upthread - no it wouldn’t. Prices can be demoninated however you want*. It’s what the total to pay becomes that is important. And round up / down as necessary, with a universal formula, if paying cash.

The only people who would ever need to worry are those buying small value items in low numbers, in cash. Which, I would contend, is a very small percentage of domestic transactions.

* as can be seen in all petrol stations.

 

[radamfi]

Yes, time for them to go. And 5p while we’re at it - it’s worth rather less than a 1/2p was at decimalisation.

There is a precedent for this. The smallest coin in Norway and Sweden is 1 krone, worth 8.5p and 8.8p respectively. Obviously Sweden is well known for the lack of use of cash in general.

 

[najaB]

The only people who would ever need to worry are those buying small value items in low numbers, in cash. Which, I would contend, is a very small percentage of domestic transactions.

They will, however, generally be the poorest in society.

 

[Bald Rick]

They will, however, generally be the poorest in society.

Maybe so, but that they won’t lose out with a mandated rounding system.

And in theory, everyone in society wins through avoiding the cost of minting, transporting, and processing 100,000 tonnes of metal around the economy.

 

[route101]

I can see the argument for the 1p and 2p going but the 5p is too big a denomination to go as it would mean all prices would need to end in a multiple of 10p. That would be too inflationary to be done in one go.
Thanks for that, I forgot that they aren't circulated in England. We also have £1 notes still (though they are even more rare).

Not seen a £1 note in about ten years, i used to get them quite often in corner shops as change, which made me suspicious .

 

[najaB]

Maybe so, but that they won’t lose out with a mandated rounding system.

If prices stay the same and are rounded, maybe not. But I can easily see Tesco (et. al.) making the 13p tin of value beans 20p and so forth.

 

[route101]

If prices stay the same and are rounded, maybe not. But I can easily see Tesco (et. al.) making the 13p tin of value beans 20p and so forth.

One supermarkey im sure has already done , Sainsburys , a lot of things rounded to nearest 5p.

 

[Bald Rick]

If prices stay the same and are rounded, maybe not. But I can easily see Tesco (et. al.) making the 13p tin of value beans 20p and so forth.

Why would they? By value I’d be surprised if Tesco’s revenue wasn’t well over 90% electronic. Aldi and Lidl will keep them all honest.

But it is mostly only supermarkets and corner shops that have to worry about this anyway. Most other shops - particularly those that do a lot more cash (takeaways, coffees shops, pubs etc) are already at 5p and even 10p increments.

 

[najaB]

Why would they? By value I’d be surprised if Tesco’s revenue was t well over 90% electronic.

Every little helps (their bottom line).

 

[Bald Rick]

Every little helps (their bottom line).

And removing the need to deliver and count lots of metal would help enormously!

 

[Journeyman]

I still notice that certain of our local shops, including our local chemist, have notices stating that £50 notes are not accepted. Anyone else seen such notices?

Yeah, they're everywhere because forgeries are so common. I wonder if the new polymer ones will solve that problem, although as others have said, you can only get them at banks, which must surely limit their circulation.

 

[RuralRambler]

Most of Tesco prices are already 5p or 10p. Very rare to see a £1.38 or a 79p these days. Mostly on fresh fruit/veg/meat that's priced by weight.

 

[xotGD]

To avoid confusion - it’s worth pointing out that there is a £100 note in Scotland.

Well there's something I never knew. Every day a school day.

 

[GusB]

As a former checkout operator, I've seen a few £100 notes in my time, but they were fairly rare and we were instructed to call a supervisor (also for £50s which were an almost everyday occurrence) who would then check the note carefully before we accepted it.

 

[Flying Snail]

If prices stay the same and are rounded, maybe not. But I can easily see Tesco (et. al.) making the 13p tin of value beans 20p and so forth.

Rounding has been policy here (Ireland) for 5 years and is also used in some other €uro countries. Prices are rounded both ways, 1,2,6,7c rounded down, 3,4,8,9c rounded up. It works well and there was no obvious price increases, although that was probably more to do with the competition from the German supermarkets who really turned the tables on Tesco and the two Irish chains who were very expensive beforehand. I wouldn't be surprised if the big players have calculated how to gain more than they lose from rounding but they are at that constantly with everything anyway.

Looking at my grocery bills, it is not the case that most products are priced to 5/10c, by far the most common price across Tesco, Aldi and Lidl is x.x9, the lure of making stuff seem cheaper wins, the same as always.

Rounding is voluntary, all the chains opted in pretty quickly only some random indy shops still give 1, 2c coins in change these days. It has made a huge difference in the amount of useless shrapnel going around though. My mother was an avid collector due to never paying with lower than 50c coins, she went from filling jars with the stuff to barely ever bring them home.

Discussion of the fifty pound note reminds me that the five hundred euro note was withdrawn a few years ago - large denominations of currency can cause problems

It hasn't been withdrawn, ECB did not introduce a new series €500 along with all other denominations so new €500 notes are no longer being issued, however current notes (and there are a LOT of them) are still in circulation and fully valid.

Unlike British currency, despite being superseded all original series € notes remain valid indefinitely.

The obvious appeal of such high value notes in a major currency to organised crime was brought up at the time of the introduction of the € but certain countries who had a love of large denomination notes (Germany) pushed it through.

I just think that there'd be too many people upset in the UK if you tried to force people without debit cards to pay more for products than people with cards - it'd be a two tier system that penalises the poorest in society who'd end up paying higher prices.

Or are you saying that someone with a card would pay $29.97 for three items (i.e. three times the actual price) but someone paying cash would get it marginally cheaper (since the shop would round the seven down to the nearest five)?

That's exactly haw it works here and nobody has been thrown into the workhouse as a result, it is really not a big deal for anyone bar a handful of professional moaners, even that lot seem to have lost interest after a year or so.

 

[radamfi]

Rounding has been policy here (Ireland) for 5 years and is also used in some other €uro countries. Prices are rounded both ways, 1,2,6,7c rounded down, 3,4,8,9c rounded up.

If you are really tight, you can pay the least by paying by card for prices that are rounded up and in cash for prices that are rounded down. Does anyone do that?

 

[Bald Rick]

No doub

If you are really tight, you can pay the least by paying by card for prices that are rounded up and in cash for prices that are rounded down. Does anyone do that?

No doubt some people do, but honestly, why bother?!

 

[Bevan Price]

Back in 1971, rounding was supposed to be "fair" after UK decimalisation, but in practice led to a lot of price increases.
For example, bus fares at 8d. or 9d. often changed to 4p (equal to 9.6d ), although 3½p would have been a more "honest" adjustment from 8d.

(Inflation over the years has made 1971 prices seem very cheap.)

 

[Bald Rick]

Back in 1971, rounding was supposed to be "fair" after UK decimalisation, but in practice led to a lot of price increases.
For example, bus fares at 8d. or 9d. often changed to 4p (equal to 9.6d ), although 3½p would have been a more "honest" adjustment from 8d.

(Inflation over the years has made 1971 prices seem very cheap.)

No doubt.

The difference is... How many people paid for the bus with a contactless card in 1971?

Rounding would only be needed for cash payments. Which is, frankly, a minority of people.

 

[najaB]

Rounding would only be needed for cash payments. Which is, frankly, a minority of people.

Though it's worth repeating that those people are likely among the and least able to deal with price increases.