• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

TOD problems

Status
Not open for further replies.

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
3,835
I an always dubious about using Ticket On Departure (TOD), and events today have confirmed my opinion.

I have a work trip next week, booked by my employer through our regular travel agent, with tickets to be collected using the booking reference. I didn't want to leave ticket collection until the last minute, so went to my local station this morning to collect them.

I put the reference into the fast collection machine, which retrieved the journey details correctly. Then, instead of printing the tickets, a message came up on screen telling me it had run out of paper and couldn't issue them. So I tried the other ticket machine, which told me the tickets had already been issued (presumably my attempt at the first machine). I then tried the ticket office, but the clerk there said that unless the tickets had been booked through his TOC (SWR), I would have to go back to the ticket issuer. I did point out that the problem had been caused by SWR's machine running out of paper, but he said he couldn't do anything about that.

I rang my office (where, just to add to the fun, the admin lady who'd arranged the booking was on holiday and her deputy off sick). Our receptionist agreed to go back to the travel agent, but they came back saying I should have gone to the ticket office who could have issued the tickets! I said that I'd tried that without any success, so she said she'd go back to them. I'm currently waiting further news, but it looks likely that we will have to cancel those tickets and get new ones issued. I hope that they can be issued against the original seat reservations, as I'm intending to travel with a group of colleagues.

There are a few points coming out of this (apart from the fact that I've already wasted an hour of a day off trying to sort the mess out):
  • why couldn't the machine tell me it had run out of paper before I'd entered all my details?
  • should the ticket clerk have been able to find the reservation and issue tickets?
  • if this had happened immediately before travel with no time to sort it out, could I have travelled with the printed booking confirmation and explained the circumstances? (I wouldn't want to rely on that though)
It seems very poor that a simple failure of the ticket machine can cause such problems, with basically everybody passing the buck. It confirms my opinion to avoid TOD unless there's absolutely no alternative - in this case posting the tickets would have saved the whole problem.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,233
Location
Bolton
I suspect that your tickets cannot be reprinted if they have been marked as printed by the first machine. I don't know exactly what the fault here is but I have come across this before. The standard response appears to be to ask the customer to buy a new ticket and then refund it.
 

TUC

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2010
Messages
3,566
Another fine example of the bewildering idiocy of a fragmented franchise system?

No, just the idiocy of not designing systems to cope with predictable situations like this, plus unhelpful staff who should at least have offered to ring their supervisor for advice.
 

OwlMan

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2008
Messages
3,206
Location
Bedworth, Warwickshire
THe booking office should have issued the tickets for you under the TOD Isuing - problem resolution processes sections 5 & 6 (see below).

The following clauses contain examples of some common problems that can occur when a customer is collecting ToD tickets from a Self-Service Ticket Vending Machine (SSTVM) and processes for managing them. Local instructions may be issued by some Train Operators which vary or replace some of these processes, in particular in Penalty Fare areas.

1. The customer has no CTR reference or documentation for ToD collection.
a)If a customer has no CTR reference or is unable to provide any documentary evidence to support a claim for a ToD collection then the customer should be told that that they must purchase a new ticket or to contact the seller with whom they made the booking to resolve the problem.

2. SSTVM is working but the customer is unable to recall the booking.
a)Ask the customer for the CTR reference and the payment card used for the purchase and recall the booking (where the customer is unable to present the same card request the purchase of a new ticket).
or
If the ToD seller has set the CTR reference to permit collection using any payment card (Flag 3) then recall the booking with a different payment card (where no payment card is presented but the seller has set the collection to ‘any card’ collection (Flag 3) then subject to photographic identity confirming the name of the customer (e.g. driving licence or similar id as determined by the issuing office owning TOC) the tickets may be issued.)
b)If there is more than one journey booked under a single reference select the ticket/tickets to be issued.
c)Issue the selected tickets.
d)Ask the customer to sign the printed receipt and retain with the shift balance.

3. The Customer has no supporting documentation but does have a CTR reference.
a)Ask the customer for the CTR reference and the payment card used for the purchase and recall the booking (where the customer cannot present the same card request the purchase of a new ticket unless local instructions apply).
or
If the ToD seller has set the CTR reference to permit collection using any payment card (Flag 3) then recall the booking with a different payment card (where no payment card is presented but the seller has set the collection to ‘any card’ collection (Flag 3) then subject to photographic identity confirming the name of the customer (e.g. driving licence or similar id as determined by the issuing office owning TOC) the tickets may be issued).
b)If there is more than one journey booked under a single reference select the ticket/tickets to be issued.
c)Issue the selected tickets.
d)Ask the customer to sign the printed receipt and retain.

4. The customer is trying to collect at a location that is not a ToD issuing location.
a)Ask the customer for evidence (such as the confirmation email they received from their ToD seller) to ascertain whether they were informed that they could collect their ToD at this location.
b)Issue the ticket as in 2 and 3 above, if possible (subject to local instructions).
or
c)Notify the customer of ToD issuing locations where collection can be made.
or
d)If travelling immediately sell the customer a new ticket and advise them to contact their ToD seller about a refund for the uncollected ToD.

5. Some, but not all tickets are printed/part printed.
Duplicate tickets can only be issued if a ToD CTR reference number can be supplied and the CTR successfully recalled for ticketing. Any part printed tickets must be handed over by the customer.
If there is a print failure during ticket printing at the SSTVM, a message will appear on the screen advising the customer to collect their tickets from the Ticket Office.
a)Collect from the customer all the tickets that were printed.
b)If possible, recall the CTR and check the status of the ToD booking using a TIS.
c)If the CTR cannot be recalled by the ticket office TIS, station staff should use the Live Sales Management (LSM) Console to review the status of the ToD booking.
d)If the LSM Console displays the status of the CTR as set to ‘P’ (print failure) the users of some TIS may be able to over-ride this status and re-issue the full set of tickets.
e) If the LSM Console reports the status as ‘Locked’ then;
(a) Users authorised to unlock CTRs should request an ‘Unlock’ using the LSM console.
(b) Users not authorised to unlock CTRs should call the LSM helpdesk. Requests to unlock CTRs will be managed by Smart421’s technical support team. The service is available seven days a week between the hours of 08:00 and 18:00 and can be contacted on 0845 120 5499.
When calling the LSM Helpdesk, station staff must have the following information available in order to proceed.
1. Name
2. Location (Station).
3. Answer to a secret question which has been defined by the TOC.
Unlocking should allow the ToD to be recalled and the tickets issued.
f)Ask the customer to complete Parts 1 & 2 of a ToD Duplicate Tickets Record Form.
g)If possible, check how many tickets were printed, using the SSTVM Supervisor Terminal. Keep evidence of this and submit with the operator’s balance sheet at the end of the shift.
h)If there is more than one journey booked under a single CTR, then the operator must select the ticket/tickets to be issued.
i)Complete Part 3 of the ToD Duplicate Tickets record Form with the details of the tickets issued.
j)Ask the customer to sign the ToD Duplicate Tickets Record Form in Part 4.
k)Provide the authorisation in Part 5.
l)Give the complete set of new tickets to the customer.
m)Mark the part printed tickets as cancelled and attach to the ToD Duplicate Tickets Record form.
n)Retain the ToD Duplicate Tickets Record Form at the TOC central accounting point.

6. No tickets are printed.
Example 1
If there is a print failure before printing of the first ticket at the SSTVM, a message will appear on the screen advising the customer to collect their tickets from the Ticket Office.
Duplicate tickets can only be issued if a ToD CTR reference number can be supplied and the CTR successfully recalled for ticketing.
a) If possible, recall the CTR and check the status of the ToD booking using a TIS.
b) If the CTR cannot be recalled by the ticket office TIS station staff should use the Live Sales Management (LSM) Console to review the status of the ToD booking
c) If the LSM Console displays the status of the CTR as set to ‘P’ (print failure) the users of some TIS may be able to over-ride this status and re-issue the full set of tickets.
d) If the LSM Console reports the status as ‘Locked’ then;
(i) Users authoried to unlock CTRs should request an ‘Unlock’ using the LSM console.
(ii) Users not authorised to unlock CTRs should call the LSM helpdesk. Requests to unlock CTRs will be managed by Smart421’s technical support team. The service is available seven days a week between the hours of 08:00 and 18:00 and can be contacted on 0845 120 5499;
When calling the LSM Helpdesk, station staff must have the following information available in order to proceed.
1. Name
2. Location (Station).
3. Answer to a secret question which has been defined by the TOC.
e)Ask the customer to complete Parts 1 & 2 of a ToD Duplicate Tickets Record Form.
f)If possible, check how many tickets were printed, using the SSTVM Supervisor Terminal. Keep evidence of this and submit with the operator’s balance sheet at the end of the shift.
g)If there is more than one journey booked under a single CTR, then the operator must select the ticket/tickets to be issued.
h)Complete Part 3 of the ToD Replacement Tickets Record Form with the details of the tickets issued.
i)Ask the customer to sign the ToD Duplicate Tickets Record Form in Part 4.
j)Provide the authorisation in Part 5.
k)Mark the part printed tickets as cancelled and attach to the ToD Duplicate Tickets Record form.
l)Retain the ToD Duplicate Tickets Record Form at the TOC central accounting point.
Example 2
When a customer alleges that no tickets have been printed, however there is no evidence of SSTVM malfunction.
a) If possible, recall the CTR and check the status of the ToD booking using a TIS.
b) If the CTR cannot be recalled by the ticket office TIS station staff should use the Live Sales Management (LSM) Console to review the status of the ToD booking
c) If the LSM Console displays the status of the CTR as set to ‘P’ (print failure) the users of some TIS may be able to over-ride this status and re-issue the full set of tickets.
d) If the LSM Console reports the status as ‘Locked’ then;
(a) Users authoried to unlock CTRs should request an ‘Unlock’ using the LSM console.
(b) Users not authorised to unlock CTRs should call the LSM helpdesk. Requests to unlock CTRs will be managed by Smart421’s technical support team. The service is available seven days a week between the hours of 08:00 and 18:00 and can be contacted on 0845 120 5499.
When calling the LSM Helpdesk, station staff must have the following information available in order to proceed.
1. Name
2. Location (Station).
3. Answer to a secret question which has been defined by the TOC.
e) Using the LSM Console, check the status of the CTR is ‘fully issued’ then check the issuing location.
f) If the issuing location is a SSTVM at the same location as the ticket office then local instructions for ticketing the passenger must apply. Customers should not be referred back to the ToD seller where the LSM Console or LSM Help Desk is able to confirm that the complete issue of all the tickets has taken place at a SSTVM at the calling location.

7. SSTVM and ticket office machines are unable to recall a ToD booking
This process will enable the customer to travel without being asked to pay again because of a system failure and will protect against any possible financial loss if the fault is due to the seller.
Replacement tickets can only be issued if a ToD CTR reference number can be supplied and the customer's journey details can be verified.
a) Request from the customer proof of purchase i.e. a receipt from the seller including CTR reference number.
b) Where no proof exists, request the purchase of a new ticket. Subject to local instructions the customer may be allowed to travel and collect their ToD tickets at the first opportunity. For issuing locations in Penalty Fare areas local instructions may replace the above processes.
c) If possible, recall the CTR and check the status of the ToD booking using a TIS.
d) If the CTR cannot be recalled by the ticket office TIS, station staff should use the Live Sales Management (LSM) Console to review the status of the ToD booking to ensure it has not already been issued.
(e) If the ToD booking has a status of already being issued, the customer must either;
(i) Buy a new ticket or
(ii) Seek assistance from the TOC customer service department.
(f) If the ToD booking has a status of not already being issued and is available for collection, then ask the customer to fill in Parts 1 and 2 of a Replacement Tickets Record Form.
g) Issue equivalent replacement tickets.
h) Complete Part 3 of the ToD Replacement Tickets Record Form with the details of the tickets issued.
i) Ask the customer to sign the declaration in Part 4.
j) Provide the authorisation in Part 5.
k) The customer may then be given the tickets and must be informed that any seat reservations previously made cannot be recalled owing to the system failure. It must be explained that compensation can be claimed through the Passenger’s Charter if the customer is unable to find any seats upon the train.
l) If the problem is due to incorrect placement of the CTR this will result in the seller bearing the full cost of the replacement tickets.
m) If the problem is due to due to a fault with the issuing TIS or connection to the CTR database, then the issuer is liable for the cost of the replacement tickets. The retailer may retrospectively seek recompense for the replacement tickets issued for which they have been charged.
 
Last edited:

Joe Paxton

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2017
Messages
2,453
A badly designed TVM is the problem here, rather than the TOD system as such.

Thankfully I haven't yet had an issue with TOD fulfilled tickets. But if I was in the OP's shoes I wouldn't be happy either.

Edit - having seen the replies above, a badly designed TVM (which shouldn't offer to print tickets it cannot) combined with unhelpful ticket office staff (quite possibly with poor training).

A complaint to SWR (copied to RDG?) is in order.
 
Last edited:

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
3,835
To update this, after some correspondence between my office and the travel agency, I received an email telling me to go back to the station, and that SWR had spoken to the station staff and faxed(!) them a copy of the reservation, which would enable them to issue the tickets.

So I headed straight back there to find a different ticket clerk on duty. I explained to her what I wanted, but she knew nothing of any phone call. There was a fax on her machine but it was only a cover sheet and nothing else. Her system was still showing the tickets as having been issued, so she was still reluctant to issue the tickets! I showed her the email with all the information (including a scan of a printout showing the ticket printing failure), and she agreed finally to issue them, having taken a photo of something on her screen, and getting me to sign a paper showing I'd received the tickets. To be fair, she did seem to be really trying to help, and she was apologetic for all the hassle.

So at last I have the tickets, at the cost of quite a bit of several people's time, and a significant part of my day off spent on the phone, on emails, and two trips to the station, all because a printer ran out of paper. I won't be rushing to use TOD again.
 

falcon

Member
Joined
8 Mar 2009
Messages
425
If you use ticket machines to collect tickets you have bought online, ticket office staff are not inclined to help as it is there job that is being done away with due to ticket machines and online purchasing of tickets. They operate under a policy of "if they chose to buy it online and have the tickets issued from a machine then when it goes wrong go back online to sort it out". Otherwise buy your ticket from a person at a station. :lol:
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,554
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
If you use ticket machines to collect tickets you have bought online, ticket office staff are not inclined to help as it is there job that is being done away with due to ticket machines and online purchasing of tickets. They operate under a policy of "if they chose to buy it online and have the tickets issued from a machine then when it goes wrong go back online to sort it out". Otherwise buy your ticket from a person at a station. :lol:

I hope staff are not doing this (and I don't think many actually would, most railway staff are helpful). They are paid to do a job, not only the bits of it they happen to like.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
12,984
If you use ticket machines to collect tickets you have bought online, ticket office staff are not inclined to help as it is there job that is being done away with due to ticket machines and online purchasing of tickets. They operate under a policy of "if they chose to buy it online and have the tickets issued from a machine then when it goes wrong go back online to sort it out". Otherwise buy your ticket from a person at a station. :lol:

What rubbish. Please can you let us know where this policy is written down. If it is staff making up their own rules then they should be reported and dealt with. There is no place for additudes like this on the railway.
 

John @ home

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2008
Messages
5,148
If you use ticket machines to collect tickets you have bought online, ticket office staff are not inclined to help
That is not my experience. Yesterday I used a Northern machine to collect tickets bought online. After 2 (of 12) vouchers had been printed, a message appeared saying that the machine could not complete printing my tickets and that I should seek assistance from the ticket office. I did this. A very efficient ticket clerk printed them for me. The initial tickets were printed at 16:12. The remaining 10 vouchers show that they were printed in the ticket office at 16:14.
 

infobleep

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
12,558
That is not my experience. Yesterday I used a Northern machine to collect tickets bought online. After 2 (of 12) vouchers had been printed, a message appeared saying that the machine could not complete printing my tickets and that I should seek assistance from the ticket office. I did this. A very efficient ticket clerk printed them for me. The initial tickets were printed at 16:12. The remaining 10 vouchers show that they were printed in the ticket office at 16:14.
I wonder if this is one of the new SWR TMVs or older one. Maybe the issue here is the TV didn't start go to the ticket office. Ha fit done so the member of staff would have had less chance to sat nothing to do with me. They may still have tried it on of course.
 

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
4,632
And if they'd do, I'd hope that a nicely-worded letter is in order to help them get their job done away even faster then :D

Exactly, with attitudes like this is it any wonder they’re closing some ticket offices. I must admit these sorts of attitudes are very rare from my experience. Most staff are polite and helpful, sometimes sadly incompetent or at least inexperienced but polite.
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
3,835
I wonder if this is one of the new SWR TMVs or older one. Maybe the issue here is the TV didn't start go to the ticket office. Ha fit done so the member of staff would have had less chance to sat nothing to do with me. They may still have tried it on of course.
In the original case that I described at the start of this thread, I tried to use a fast-collection machine inside the ticket office, adjacent to the ticket office window. That's one reason I was miffed that it had been allowed to run out of paper, without it telling me so while I could still use another machine (which I couldn't after the first try failed).

In reply to falcon's point, I do usually buy my tickets from that particular ticket office, as I agree use-it-or-lose-it applies. However, as described in my original post, the tickets I was trying to collect were bought by my employer for a work trip, so I had no say in the source.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
S&B TVMs don't appear to have sensors to detect when paper stock is low, rather you load a reel in and have to enter the number of tickets, less some to allow for misfeeds/errors or whatever. It means the machine may actually stop printing before the tickets have run out, while at other times it can still run out without having taken any notice of the fact it should have been keeping count.

Perhaps the reels of tickets aren't consistent, which maybe doesn't help.

Obviously I don't know what TVM was used in the OPs case, but perhaps they all work in similar archaic ways.
 

Wallsendmag

Established Member
Joined
11 Dec 2014
Messages
5,137
Location
Wallsend or somewhere in GB
S&B TVMs don't appear to have sensors to detect when paper stock is low, rather you load a reel in and have to enter the number of tickets, less some to allow for misfeeds/errors or whatever. It means the machine may actually stop printing before the tickets have run out, while at other times it can still run out without having taken any notice of the fact it should have been keeping count.

Perhaps the reels of tickets aren't consistent, which maybe doesn't help.

Obviously I don't know what TVM was used in the OPs case, but perhaps they all work in similar archaic ways.

Parkeon work exactly the same way. Worldline machines sense that the tickets have run out.
 

falcon

Member
Joined
8 Mar 2009
Messages
425
What rubbish. Please can you let us know where this policy is written down. If it is staff making up their own rules then they should be reported and dealt with. There is no place for additudes like this on the railway.

The union TSSA who represent most ticket office staff are fighting to have a booth with a telephone put into travel centers / ticket offices because they are sick and tired of dealing with tickets sold online by the likes of trainline ect then they are expected to sort it out! Whilst customers who are keeping them in a job are kept waiting.

The proposal is that the person who has bought the tickets online is refferred to the telephone booth to sort thier problem out. 100% genuine.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,725
The union TSSA who represent most ticket office staff are fighting to have a booth with a telephone put into travel centers / ticket offices because they are sick and tired of dealing with tickets sold online by the likes of trainline ect then they are expected to sort it out! Whilst customers who are keeping them in a job are kept waiting.

The proposal is that the person who has bought the tickets online is refferred to the telephone booth to sort thier problem out. 100% genuine.

That sounds like absolute rot to me. How is giving someone a telephone line (they could just use their own phone - most people carry one anyway) going to help a customer actually receive their tickets? Will there be a printer in the booth, with some instructions? Of course not. It doesn't help at all. This is such a ludicrous idea, I can't believe it is even remotely true.

If you have some evidence, provide it.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
12,984
The union would do better advising its members to offer excellent customer service to people when dealing with online ticketing issues. If people get excellent service they will realise it's a good place to go to buy tickets rather than just use them to sort out problems.

I get excellent service at VTEC's Stevenage office, consequently I use them frequently. I once had an issue at the GTR office next door over a plusbus ticket - I won't use them again which is a shame as I'm sure there are excellent staff who work there.
 

Wallsendmag

Established Member
Joined
11 Dec 2014
Messages
5,137
Location
Wallsend or somewhere in GB
The union would do better advising its members to offer excellent customer service to people when dealing with online ticketing issues. If people get excellent service they will realise it's a good place to go to buy tickets rather than just use them to sort out problems.

I get excellent service at VTEC's Stevenage office, consequently I use them frequently. I once had an issue at the GTR office next door over a plusbus ticket - I won't use them again which is a shame as I'm sure there are excellent staff who work there.
I’m amazed every time I have to go there, Nigel and the others seem to know everyone by their first name. Excellent team.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
12,984
I’m amazed every time I have to go there, Nigel and the others seem to know everyone by their first name. Excellent team.

Absolutely agree. Nigel and the team are excellent, I just wished they opened a bit later and on Sundays but I do hope they office continues to trade - be such a shame if it ever closed.
 

causton

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
5,504
Location
Somewhere between WY372 and MV7
As someone 'behind the glass' :lol: I will keep this short and sweet (or at least try):
  • As said before by jon0844, S&B machines do not keep a very accurate record of their ticket stock as it relies on guessing how much is on the roll and then it seems to have trouble counting. So you either check the machines every couple of hours, throw away a roll with a good few hundred tickets on it or if you forget about it and it has miscounted, suddenly it keeps printing tickets that aren't there.
  • After the way the Trainline is pitched against ticket offices, I can see why staff are reluctant to deal with these issues in the way falcon has said, as we cannot actually help in most situations. Many people come up with tickets they could have bought from us (walk-up rates) for the same price, where they have made some simple error (wrong date etc) where it would be simple to fix if it was issued locally, but we have to send them back to the original retailer which annoys them. From people losing their references and most being entered as I Customer, Address Incomplete with no personal details to find their trip, many tickets shown as Ticketed with the location as printed from Trainline themselves (when their phone is clearly stating on the app that they can use this code to pick up the ticket from the station) there are many possible errors and not a lot of help we can give when it goes wrong, short of issuing an authority to travel on our own TOC services.
  • When the Print Failed system actually works, it works well, and it is one click to reissue tickets, but the original TVM/issuing place has to properly recognise there was a print error!
  • I have read instructions like the ones OwlMan has posted before but have no idea what LSM is, let alone have access to it, or the 'secret password' or any idea how I would start unlocking a ToD reference. The closest is the retail support number for Trainline which after about 45 minutes of being on hold has successfully issued new ToD references in some occasions (I forget the specific reason, whether it was misprints or something else)
(That wasn't short nor sweet.)
 

Gareth Marston

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2010
Messages
6,231
Location
Newtown Montgomeryshire
TOD Collection from a staff point of view they can be a pain.

In theory the punter has booked their tickets, the ones they want, all they have to do is key in the reference insert the bank card and off they go with a warm glow and their tickets/seat reservations. It does away with needing staff etc etc.

The reality is far different.
Punter forgets reference number.
Punter then faffs about with mobile phone
Punter queries why bank card is needed.
Punter then wants to ask questions about ticket/journey.
all this then consumes more time than the average customer who rocks up and asks for a ticket.
Once tickets are handed over we then get.
Where's the seat reservations?
Where the printout with the train times?
Can I use these tickets next week as well? ( there a CD-R with today's date).
These are the wrong tickets you've made a mistake.
They then cause a queue for people wanting to buy on day.

And remember this is all suppose to make buying tickets easier allegedly.
 

Gareth Marston

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2010
Messages
6,231
Location
Newtown Montgomeryshire
As someone 'behind the glass' :lol: I will keep this short and sweet (or at least try):
  • As said before by jon0844, S&B machines do not keep a very accurate record of their ticket stock as it relies on guessing how much is on the roll and then it seems to have trouble counting. So you either check the machines every couple of hours, throw away a roll with a good few hundred tickets on it or if you forget about it and it has miscounted, suddenly it keeps printing tickets that aren't there.
  • After the way the Trainline is pitched against ticket offices, I can see why staff are reluctant to deal with these issues in the way falcon has said, as we cannot actually help in most situations. Many people come up with tickets they could have bought from us (walk-up rates) for the same price, where they have made some simple error (wrong date etc) where it would be simple to fix if it was issued locally, but we have to send them back to the original retailer which annoys them. From people losing their references and most being entered as I Customer, Address Incomplete with no personal details to find their trip, many tickets shown as Ticketed with the location as printed from Trainline themselves (when their phone is clearly stating on the app that they can use this code to pick up the ticket from the station) there are many possible errors and not a lot of help we can give when it goes wrong, short of issuing an authority to travel on our own TOC services.
  • When the Print Failed system actually works, it works well, and it is one click to reissue tickets, but the original TVM/issuing place has to properly recognise there was a print error!
  • I have read instructions like the ones OwlMan has posted before but have no idea what LSM is, let alone have access to it, or the 'secret password' or any idea how I would start unlocking a ToD reference. The closest is the retail support number for Trainline which after about 45 minutes of being on hold has successfully issued new ToD references in some occasions (I forget the specific reason, whether it was misprints or something else)
(That wasn't short nor sweet.)

It's very rare we actually get a ticket out without a collection reference number. Had a bloke today who just brought his PayPal receipt.

There's no TVM here so I can't comment on technical issues regarding them issuing or not. I can imagine if there was one it would just be a ball ache of trying to see what we could or could not do which would have been dealt with quicker if the person had bought at the counter.
 

pemma

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
31,474
Location
Knutsford
The union TSSA who represent most ticket office staff are fighting to have a booth with a telephone put into travel centers / ticket offices because they are sick and tired of dealing with tickets sold online by the likes of trainline ect then they are expected to sort it out! Whilst customers who are keeping them in a job are kept waiting.

The proposal is that the person who has bought the tickets online is refferred to the telephone booth to sort thier problem out. 100% genuine.

So what about at stations which only have a limited service? Does the TSSA think the ticket office staff should refuse to do it when there's no queue and the next train is 40-50 minutes away?

If the TSSA are really concerned about keeping ticket office staff in jobs should they not be campaigning for TOCs to advertise TOD is available from ticket offices, instead of encouraging everyone with TOD references to go to a TVM?
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,554
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Time to install TVMs and close the ticket offices, then. There is no point in having them if they won’t do the customer service things a TVM can’t.

The benefit of a ticket office is accurate and professional advice and service, especially when things go wrong. If the staff won’t do that, there is no point whatsoever in having them.
 

falcon

Member
Joined
8 Mar 2009
Messages
425
Just seen ticket office staff today turn a couple who bought tickets using and 'app' so they were cheaper.The 'app' did not work when they got to the railway station so they went to the ticket office for assistance.The member of ticket office said they could do nothing as they had chosen to buy via an 'app'.The couple concerned had to buy new tickets at full price. The station staff were approached by the couple but they took the same line as the ticket office. 'app' is nothing to do with us.
 

falcon

Member
Joined
8 Mar 2009
Messages
425
Time to install TVMs and close the ticket offices, then. There is no point in having them if they won’t do the customer service things a TVM can’t.

The benefit of a ticket office is accurate and professional advice and service, especially when things go wrong. If the staff won’t do that, there is no point whatsoever in having them.
It does not work like that. The pubilc need ticket offices it would not be possible to shut ticket offices because staff did not deal with internet / tech issues that are doing away with their jobs. TSSA are dead against this new technology that is doing away with their jobs. 10% 15% off tickets bought online then people want the ticket office to sort any ticket problem out. When one sees this attitued administered on some unsuspecting member of the public it is quite embarrassing! at the same time one can see the point TSSA are making.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top