Todmorden Curve

[Geeves]

Merseyrail 142s all day everyday 364!

 

[Starmill]

Right! We've now got a refurbished tunnel but still, apparently, a speed restriction through it, a reinstalled but not reinstated chord at Todmorden, a new station at Burnley Manchester Road, most of which, including the car park remains fenced off no trains to run the promised Manchester service until December and finally, splendid new buses to run the X43 Nelson to Manchester service. So come on, DfT, Network Rail, Northern Rail and Uncle Tom Cobbleigh; get your b****y fingers out.

When I went through the "new" Holme Tunnel I do have to say I was thoroughly dissapointed with the speed, still below 20 mph and it's also a shorter tunnel than I actually remember which does give question as to what was achived over such a long closure period.

What's up with the new station building and ticket office at Burnley Manchester Road? They aren't finished yet are they? The look as though they'll be great when they are! What doesn't look so great are the platforms!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When I went through the "new" Holme Tunnel I do have to say I was thoroughly dissapointed with the speed, still below 20 mph and it's also a shorter tunnel than I actually remember which does give question as to what was achived over such a long closure period.

Was it not the intention that the line speed through the Holme tunnel would be increased after these remedial works were carried out ?

 

[Starmill]

Was it not the intention that the line speed through the Holme tunnel would be increased after these remedial works were carried out ?

Yes it was:

It was important that this engineering work took place as the ground surrounding the tunnel has moved and the walls of the tunnel have become distorted. Before the work was completed there was a 20 mph speed limit for trains going through the tunnel; the speed limit has now been raised to 45 mph and ensures that train services can continue running along this route.

 

[spongsdad]

When I went through the "new" Holme Tunnel I do have to say I was thoroughly dissapointed with the speed, still below 20 mph and it's also a shorter tunnel than I actually remember which does give question as to what was achived over such a long closure period.

What's up with the new station building and ticket office at Burnley Manchester Road? They aren't finished yet are they? The look as though they'll be great when they are! What doesn't look so great are the platforms!

Regarding BYM station, it all appears to be complete and ready to go. The car park will certainly be very welcome.
This is purely speculation on my part but, as the station is currently unmanned, I wonder whether Northern Rail is hanging back on the full opening, given that the augmented service to Manchester is delayed by 7-8 months.

 

[edwin_m]

Regarding BYM station, it all appears to be complete and ready to go. The car park will certainly be very welcome.
This is purely speculation on my part but, as the station is currently unmanned, I wonder whether Northern Rail is hanging back on the full opening, given that the augmented service to Manchester is delayed by 7-8 months.

According to Modern Railways a funding agreement needs to be signed with Lancashire council before Northern can recruit train crews. Perhaps this also covers station staff?

 

[34D]

Was it not the intention that the line speed through the Holme tunnel would be increased after these remedial works were carried out ?

I wonder, can we assume it is simply bedding in for the new track?

 

[ianhr]

I wonder, can we assume it is simply bedding in for the new track?

I was under the impression that with modern tamping techniques this was less important than it used to be. I wonder if it is just slack in the timetable which will not be tightened up until 17th May?

Or perhaps it is just Northern being perverse!......there has been no improvement in S&C timings after all the investment in pw over the past few years.

 

[Darren R]

It is only a small increase in the speed limit through Holme Tunnel - from 20mph before to (I think) 45mph afterwards. The point-to-point timings in the new WTT that starts in a couple of weeks are exactly the same as before - but in any case the increase in speed would probably only knock a half-minute off the current 7 minutes from Copy Pit to Burnley Manchester Road. The Holme Tunnel works are not an end to the problems associated with the tunnel: the risk of further movement as a result of the geology has not been eliminated and the line speed will always be low as a consequence. The half-minute or so time saving will just be subsumed into the timetable and will help a little with the punctuality of a service that has a lot of pinch-points to pass through on its journey between York and Blackpool North. It might not be much, but as an endless procession of celeb voiceovers keeps telling us, "Every little helps."

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

According to Modern Railways a funding agreement needs to be signed with Lancashire council before Northern can recruit train crews. Perhaps this also covers station staff?

Have all the monies from the original successful bid project now already been fully allocated between the refurbishment of the Weaver's Triangle project and reinstement of the Todmorden Chord....or is there anything left "in the pot" that could be pot towards this requirement ?

 

[Darren R]

Have all the monies from the original successful bid project now already been fully allocated between the refurbishment of the Weaver's Triangle project and reinstement of the Todmorden Chord....or is there anything left "in the pot" that could be pot towards this requirement ?

I can't give a definitive answer to your question, since I can't remember how large the pot was to begin with. However, I would be very surprised if there is anything left in the kitty for sundry items. There are several projects which have already been completed, several more that are happening now, and a few more that have already been confirmed but the work not yet started. The whole of that side of Burnley town centre is being transformed, including Manchester Road railway station. New public spaces are being created, a new bridge linking the Weavers' Triangle with the town centre, major road and pedestrian improvements, as well as the refurbishment and conservation of many of the historic buildings.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Maybe they'll put on a special 142 for you Paul?

ROTFLOL - only the best for my posh Cheshire friend

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

ROTFLOL - only the best for my posh Cheshire friend

Even Prestbury station is sent some peak-period reminders of what "Newton Heath's Finest" looks like, in order that we can thank our lucky stars that we have an electrified line with Class 323 units as our usual rolling stock....

 

[edwin_m]

Have all the monies from the original successful bid project now already been fully allocated between the refurbishment of the Weaver's Triangle project and reinstement of the Todmorden Chord....or is there anything left "in the pot" that could be pot towards this requirement ?

I would guess Lancashire budgeted for this but the cash now needs to be released to Northern before they can commit to spending it. It may also have been awaiting the franchise extension, since until that point nobody would have known for certain whether the agreement was to be with Northern or someone else.

 

[ianhr]

It is only a small increase in the speed limit through Holme Tunnel - from 20mph before to (I think) 45mph afterwards. The point-to-point timings in the new WTT that starts in a couple of weeks are exactly the same as before - but in any case the increase in speed would probably only knock a half-minute off the current 7 minutes from Copy Pit to Burnley Manchester Road. The Holme Tunnel works are not an end to the problems associated with the tunnel: the risk of further movement as a result of the geology has not been eliminated and the line speed will always be low as a consequence. The half-minute or so time saving will just be subsumed into the timetable and will help a little with the punctuality of a service that has a lot of pinch-points to pass through on its journey between York and Blackpool North. It might not be much, but as an endless procession of celeb voiceovers keeps telling us, "Every little helps."

I find all that quite acceptable Darren. If anyone tries driving this route: Bradford-Halifax-Todmorden-Burnley-etc by road they will find it very slow and tedious.There are unlikely ever to be major road improvements and the limitations are, as you have said geological and geographical, The train service is an attractive option even with low speeds.
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I can't give a definitive answer to your question, since I can't remember how large the pot was to begin with. However, I would be very surprised if there is anything left in the kitty for sundry items. There are several projects which have already been completed, several more that are happening now, and a few more that have already been confirmed but the work not yet started. The whole of that side of Burnley town centre is being transformed, including Manchester Road railway station. New public spaces are being created, a new bridge linking the Weavers' Triangle with the town centre, major road and pedestrian improvements, as well as the refurbishment and conservation of many of the historic buildings.

I would hope that they can find a small amount to improve the pedestrian route between Manchester Rd station and the town centre, from my recollection the crossing of the inner ring road is unpleasant.

 

[chrissawer]

I don't believe the signalling works for the Chord have yet been completed. They were out on the track all last weekend laying cables for it, and the new reversing signal to allow trains to access the curve (or reverse) from the Up Platform at Todmorden is now installed but covered over.

The line through Todmorden was closed all weekend but as of this morning the new signals are still covered up, and the new curve still has a wooden barrier chained across it.

NRE is not showing any closures for next weekend so I wonder when the work will be formally completed.

 

[CalderRail]

The line through Todmorden was closed all weekend but as of this morning the new signals are still covered up, and the new curve still has a wooden barrier chained across it.

NRE is not showing any closures for next weekend so I wonder when the work will be formally completed.

No idea. I did speak to a couple of track workers when I happened to be at Stansfield Hall footbridge and they confirmed they were laying cables.

Has the official speed restriction on the tunnel been raised yet? They need to have that done for the York <> Blackpool Services revised timetable to work IIRC

 

[mirodo]

Some work going on at the Burnley end of the curve this morning

The new station building at BYM looks to be pretty much complete; just a few contractors hanging around keeping an eye on the place. From what I could see, it looks ready to open.
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@CalderRail Progress through Holme Tunnel was as slow as ever. We were doing 40-45mph on approach and slowed down considerably to pass through.

 

[wasi]

Long as it opens in the end

Ive waited 30 years for it, so im sure another 6 months wont do any harm.

 

[Deerfold]

Long as it opens in the end

Ive waited 30 years for it, so im sure another 6 months wont do any harm.

Al least part of it needs to be open sooner to allow the Todmorden terminators to reverse.

 

[CalderRail]

Progress through Holme Tunnel was as slow as ever. We were doing 40-45mph on approach and slowed down considerably to pass through.

I hope it's only paperwork keeping that from happening. It'd be very bad if the months of works hasn't resolved the problem.

 

[Whistler40145]

I'm hoping it's open for Pathfinder Tours Topper Chopper at the end of the month.

 

[Darren R]

Has the official speed restriction on the tunnel been raised yet? They need to have that done for the York <> Blackpool Services revised timetable to work IIRC

Although the timetable has been recast so the times are different from next Sunday (18th), the point-to-point timings over Copy Pit remain unchanged.

 

[Andrew32]

http://m.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/11208421.Todmorden_curve__No_trains_until_December/

 

[chrissawer]

http://m.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/11208421.Todmorden_curve__No_trains_until_December/

From that article:

A Network Rail spokesman said: “Owing to complications completing the final stages of signalling on the Todmorden Curve, further time is needed to complete the work.

“This will require taking possession of the railway which will mean changes to services in the area. We have worked with Northern Rail to plan for this and the possession will take place over the bank holiday weekend.

 

[Llama]

Holme Tunnel is still shown as 20 both ways (up to date download from NESA dated 11/5).

If the chord isn't open by Monday, Todmorden turnbacks can still turn back using the ground signal at Hall Royd Jn (so long as the new main-main crossover is commissioned) or run empty to Hebden Bridge to turn back there.

 

[Deerfold]

Holme Tunnel is still shown as 20 both ways (up to date download from NESA dated 11/5).

If the chord isn't open by Monday, Todmorden turnbacks can still turn back using the ground signal at Hall Royd Jn (so long as the new main-main crossover is commissioned) or run empty to Hebden Bridge to turn back there.

That's going to be a lot harder with 4tph running in each direction through
HBD than for the early morning service(s) that do it at the moment.

 

[Llama]

It will be workable to turn it back at Hebden Bridge without causing delay so long as it follows the Blackpool-York, and then slots between the Leeds-Bradford-Man Vic stopper and the York-Blackpool. Not a great deal of choice really!

 

[Deerfold]

It will be workable to turn it back at Hebden Bridge without causing delay so long as it follows the Blackpool-York, and then slots between the Leeds-Bradford-Man Vic stopper and the York-Blackpool. Not a great deal of choice really!

Bugger to fit in if things aren't running smoothly though.

 

[Sox]

As above, it's not the civil works that are holding things up it is waiting for another outfit's cast-offs that is delaying the service.

Still, presume the chord will be operationally available for "specials"?

Work to reinstate the 500-metre Todmorden Curve is almost complete but regular rail services are not due to start until at least December because of a lack of rolling stock

http://m.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/11208421.Todmorden_curve__No_trains_until_December/
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Just wondering if there are any conceivable freight uses for the new chord?

Or, is this this part of the network a freight blind alley?