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TPE services allocated for Double units

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Jamesrob637

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Does anybody know, or at least have a link to, which TPE services are scheduled for double 185s? I know there is one a day in each direction from Sheffield to Manchester Airport at peak times for Manchester commuters, which is a rare bit of sense lol, and I think I saw a double going past Deansgate around 21:00 on Monday, however this could have been empty stock at that time of night, or it was a "double" but the rear set was locked out of use.
 
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_toommm_

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IIRC the first service off Cleethorpes (05:04) is a double 185. This then forms the 08:53 off the Airport, and I believe one set then will detach at Cleethorpes.
 

TH172341

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The 0738 from Hull to Manchester Piccadilly and the 1647 Piccadilly to Hull are both booked six car Class 185s. The front unit detaches off the 0738 when it gets to Piccadilly around 940ish and then goes off to Ardwick. That same unit then couples later at Piccadilly to the unit arriving at 1638 from Hull the 1647 departure after coming ECS from Ardwick depot.
 

Jamesrob637

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The 0738 from Hull to Manchester Piccadilly and the 1647 Piccadilly to Hull are both booked six car Class 185s. The front unit detaches off the 0738 when it gets to Piccadilly around 940ish and then goes off to Ardwick. That same unit then couples later at Piccadilly to the unit arriving at 1638 from Hull the 1647 departure after coming ECS from Ardwick depot.

That makes more sense for Leeds commuters than for Manchester commuters, which I guess is/was its intention.
 

TH172341

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That makes more sense for Leeds commuters than for Manchester commuters, which I guess is/was its intention.

Yes exactly; provides a welcome boast of capacity into and from Leeds. Both are busy at the Manchester end, the 1647 popular with workers who are finishing slightly earlier especially.
 

SteveyBee131

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IIRC the first service off Cleethorpes (05:04) is a double 185. This then forms the 08:53 off the Airport, and I believe one set then will detach at Cleethorpes.
That's the plan. The set which detaches then attaches to the 13:26 Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport, which if all goes to plan, returns as the 16:53 Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes, still in 6 car formation. They then detach again at Cleethorpes, the rear unit working back on it's own, the front one staying in Cleethorpes for the night.
 

Jamesrob637

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The 16:47 off manchester is often not a 6 though!

Today being a classic case in point! The afternoon Cleethorpes to MAN Airport and return look to be scheduled 6 today - nothing on Journey Check to suggest otherwise.

No double 350s at the moment as one is out of traffic - a different one to if I had written this a week or two ago!

Will any 397s be double? 5 from Liverpool and 5 from Manchester combining at Preston DB/SBB-style?

Will any 802s be double? Maybe combining and splitting at York?

I can't see any 68s/Mk5s running as doubles as they're 6 vehicles each once you factor in the locomotive. But it may yet occur even if only at times of festivals etc and not every door opens at most stations. A couple of coaches per set and you'll be good to go.
 

driver9000

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Will any 397s be double? 5 from Liverpool and 5 from Manchester combining at Preston DB/SBB-style?

Will any 802s be double? Maybe combining and splitting at York?

I can't see any 68s/Mk5s running as doubles as they're 6 vehicles each once you factor in the locomotive. But it may yet occur even if only at times of festivals etc and not every door opens at most stations. A couple of coaches per set and you'll be good to go.

No plans for double set running of the Nova fleets that I know of. The WCML Liverpool to Glasgow services have their own paths (as can be seen on RTT) separate from the existing services. The new fleet can't run into Manchester Airport as 10 coach trains as they won't fit in the platform which hold a maximum of 8.
 

js1000

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Aye. Platform capacity at Manchester Airport is a constraining factor. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a couple more Northern (even a TPE service) services terminating and reversing at Wilmslow once the 5 coach TPE trains are in service.
 

Jamesrob637

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A friend of mine has seen "a lot more coupled TPE sets" passing Stockport of late.

As far as I know, the following are booked doubles past Stockport (though Journey Check has often said otherwise of late!):
The one to the Airport passing around ten to eight am
The one from the Airport passing around half past nine am
The one to the Airport passing around ten to four pm
The one from the Airport passing around half past five pm

Any changes on this front? I wouldn't have thought so what with no new trains in service at the time of writing (albeit not far off)
But said friend does work antisocial hours so maybe a couple of early-morning/late-evening services are doubles albeit the back unit is out of service?
 

Jamesrob637

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Yet again the afternoon Cleethorpes is 3 instead of 6 today. This is becoming almost chronic. I used to catch the 17:20 Piccadilly to Stockport (the 6-car Cleethorpes) when my local to Heaton Chapel had been cancelled - was quicker to do this and run round than wait for the next stopper to Heaton Chapel which would've been packed to the gunnels anyway, plus some air-con was welcome on warmer days.
I feel for those who use it on a daily basis right now.
 

hooky3

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with the introduction of the Mark 5A’s imminent surely there’s a good chance we’ll start to see more services doubled up? I’m sure there would even be passengers who’d prefer a Double 185 to a single 350.
 

Chester1

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with the introduction of the Mark 5A’s imminent surely there’s a good chance we’ll start to see more services doubled up? I’m sure there would even be passengers who’d prefer a Double 185 to a single 350.

Unfortunately not yet. The 350s are subleased from WMR who want them all back for the December timetable change. It's likely that 185s freed up by Mark Vs and 802s will need to be used to run some WCML services. I think Modern Railways reported that only 2 x 397s will be in service by December.
 

childwallblues

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with the introduction of the Mark 5A’s imminent surely there’s a good chance we’ll start to see more services doubled up? I’m sure there would even be passengers who’d prefer a Double 185 to a single 350.
One x Mk5 set is reported as going into service tomorrow morning on the 0556 LIV-SCA if the info is correct.
 

Bovverboy

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I don't know how many double 185s are normally in use on a Friday, but I saw the following today, Friday 23/8/19.
185143+185115: 1817 Manchester Airport - York (5L departure)
185106+185131: 1947 Manchester Airport - Middlesbrough (12L departure)
 

Trainfan2019

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Yet again the afternoon Cleethorpes is 3 instead of 6 today. This is becoming almost chronic. I used to catch the 17:20 Piccadilly to Stockport (the 6-car Cleethorpes) when my local to Heaton Chapel had been cancelled - was quicker to do this and run round than wait for the next stopper to Heaton Chapel which would've been packed to the gunnels anyway, plus some air-con was welcome on warmer days.
I feel for those who use it on a daily basis right now.

This is why I avoid TPE unless absolutely desperate between Sheffield and Manchester - constant overcrowding and 6-car trains so rare. Give me a northern pacer any day on this route!
 

andyrhodges

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This week (or last, cannot remember)I saw a double up TPE in Preston station on a Tuesday morning, what I assume to be a double 350 working Manchester Airport to Glasgow at about 8.00am.
 

J-P_L

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I don't know how many double 185s are normally in use on a Friday, but I saw the following today, Friday 23/8/19.
185143+185115: 1817 Manchester Airport - York (5L departure)
185106+185131: 1947 Manchester Airport - Middlesbrough (12L departure)

There are very few 6 car sets on the North route, no regular booked diagrams apart from a couple of early morning ones which split en route and the 1647 Piccadilly to Hull.

There was significant disruption due to a broken rail in Morley Tunnel yesterday. In significant disruption, there tends to be more ad-hoc 6 cars due to crew and unit displacement, especially with problems on the line through Dewsbury as only certain crews sign the diversion through Wakefield and Normanton.
 

Trainfan2019

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I saw a 3 car TPE 185 going into Piccadilly lunchtime today, platform 3 I think. Absolutely packed down all the aisles with standing passengers.
 

Class455

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I had a pair of 185's on a lunchtime Manchester Airport to Middlesbrough service back in March I believe, however the rear 3 coaches detached at Leeds and I don't know where they ended up going in the end.
 

Jamesrob637

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Is the Leeds to Huddersfield stopper going 6-car? I think that only needs 6 in weekday peaks and maybe during the Leeds festival and/or Huddersfield and Leeds home matches. I was on it Bank Holiday Saturday early-afternoon as I needed Batley and it was far from full both to and from Batley despite Huddersfield playing at home (they lost 2-0 to Reading :'()

Unless TPE plan to sell a shed load of £1-2 Advances on these services !!
 

brompton rail

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I notice the first Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport service was 3 car instead of 6 again today. Just be warned if you are catching 17.18 from Piccadilly to Sheffield this evening - sardines would have a better ride!
 

Jamesrob637

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I notice the first Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport service was 3 car instead of 6 again today. Just be warned if you are catching 17.18 from Piccadilly to Sheffield this evening - sardines would have a better ride!

And again today according to Journey check!
 

Jamesrob637

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So have any services been strengthened to 6-car following the introduction of the Nova 3s? I see the 07:38 Hull to Piccadilly is short-formed today - worse for Leeds commuters though as it arrives there at 08:40 whereas it's only suitable for 10am starts in Manchester.
 

BHXDMT

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So have any services been strengthened to 6-car following the introduction of the Nova 3s? I see the 07:38 Hull to Piccadilly is short-formed today - worse for Leeds commuters though as it arrives there at 08:40 whereas it's only suitable for 10am starts in Manchester.

No. That won't happen until the 397s and 802s come online, so we're talking no additional 6 cars til probably mid-late November at best.
 

37201xoIM

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TPE management have promised "stakeholders" that 185s freed up by Mk5A sets coming on stream will firstly be used to re-strengthen the 185 diagrams that have been de-strengthened since December 2017, i.e. before any 185s are used for anything else... but how soon that will happen I don't know, and how that fits with the 350 / 397 situation on the WCML is a good question too!
 

Mugby

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I was in Grimsby on Wednesday afternoon and I noted the 1326 Cleethorpes - Man. Airport was 2 doubled up 185s, both in use.

Is this a usual working?
 

rg177

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I was in Grimsby on Wednesday afternoon and I noted the 1326 Cleethorpes - Man. Airport was 2 doubled up 185s, both in use.

Is this a usual working?

And while the front three were rammed on departure from Sheffield on Wednesday, I managed to have the entire rear carriage to myself...!
 
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