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Trains departing before schedule

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Giugiaro

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Good morning everyone!

Just a simple question: Has anyone ever noticed a train departing ahead of schedule, or has had the misfortune of being left behind because a train departed before it was due?

Just today my morning train to Ermesinde tried to depart three minutes ahead of schedule, only to be stopped by a red light at the end of the station.
This same train has also left me behind already departing 1:30 minutes before schedule, which really upset me.

In my college years there was also this one driver I came across between Porto and Aveiro that consistently locked the doors early, as to keep passengers from boarding close to, and at, departure time.
He really infuriated me once when changing trains at Porto - Campanhã: The driver close the doors shut 30 seconds before departure and, despite all my pleads, left me behind.
I arrived 45min late to class because of this.
 
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superalbs

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I've had eight minutes early out of Sherborne once. Had a very loooong wait at Yeovil to fix that one up, lol.
 

Gag Halfrunt

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IIRC there was a case recently in Japan where a rail company was fined for a train departing early.
 

Bletchleyite

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Very rare but I did once report a Birmingham area local guard for dispatching about 3-4 minutes early at every station, I suspect he just wasn't looking at his watch. (It wasn't an issue with mine; I was going off the clock on the PIS which was correct and would have been clearly visible to him if he'd looked).

Much more common on buses, where "ragging round to get a longer break" was very much the thing before GPS tracking started catching those drivers out.
 

Giugiaro

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Much more common on buses, where "ragging round to get a longer break" was very much the thing before GPS tracking started catching those drivers out.

That's interesting, because buses in Portugal, at least the ones from STCP, have a tolerance of +/- 5min, the only exception being the departure from the origin.
If you arrive 3 minutes early at an intermediate stop, and the bus never arrives, you can't make a complaint because, technically, if it did pass 4 minutes before schedule, IT WAS STILL ON SCHEDULE!

That is one of the main advantages of rail over road in Portugal. Trains only depart at the exact scheduled time, meaning that you're always safe as long as your arrive just a tad bit early from the target time.
If trains start disregarding departure times, everything just becomes chaotic for passengers.
 

Bletchleyite

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That's interesting, because buses in Portugal, at least the ones from STCP, have a tolerance of +/- 5min, the only exception being the departure from the origin.
If you arrive 3 minutes early at an intermediate stop, and the bus never arrives, you can't make a complaint because, technically, if it did pass 4 minutes before schedule, IT WAS STILL ON SCHEDULE!

UK rules (edit: for buses) are -1 or +5, but there's little actual enforcement on the companies unless it's persistent.
 
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BluePenguin

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Yes, I have been a victim of a train leaving early, complained and was successful.

I’ve noticed various trains attempting to leave early over the years but been prevented from doing so by people putting their suitcase or arms in the doors. It is annoying when running late you get to the top of the stairs to find that your train is already pulling out of the station earlier - when you would have made it if it had left on time
 

Horizon22

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I know this in international transport but yes I've seen it happen several times in the UK. Once I was directly affected at 6am which made me late for my shift having to get a 20-minute later service on a slower route which wasn't much fun. It was also a different TOC, so sent them a tweet as it was always my morning train at on that particular day it inexplicably left 3 minutes early! A few TfL Rail services were also affected by this - mainly after they took over GWR services but seems to be less prevalent now.
 
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hexagon789

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I've noticed a lot of LNER services leaving a minute early over the last year, presumably their compulsory reservations thing is partly behind that?
 

Panceltic

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In Slovenia, local trains usually only wait for the advertised departure times at stations deemed important enough. At simple halts, the train just stops, opens the doors, and leaves - which might be a minute or so early. So it’s more like a bus service :D
 

miklcct

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It happened to me on an international coach which apparently ran more than 20 minutes ahead of schedule causing me to miss it! The scheduled time for that coach was about 70 minutes from the major station to the stop I was going to board it (it was a minor stop in a hamlet which I didn't expect passengers using it under normal circumstances) but local bus routes ran it in about 50 minutes.
 

the sniper

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In my college years there was also this one driver I came across between Porto and Aveiro that consistently locked the doors early, as to keep passengers from boarding close to, and at, departure time.
He really infuriated me once when changing trains at Porto - Campanhã: The driver close the doors shut 30 seconds before departure and, despite all my pleads, left me behind.
I arrived 45min late to class because of this.

In the UK this is pretty standard. It's normally advertised in timetables and there can be station posters stating that 'the doors will close 30 seconds prior to departure time'. In fact Virgin/Avanti West Coast advertise doors closing at Euston 2 minutes prior to departure. As it's advertised reasonably well most people are at least somewhat aware of it. We've had this discussion here before I believe, but if the doors close at the advertised departure time, the train will inevitable depart a little after that, technically late.

As said, random, more significantly early departures do happen, but usually by error.
 
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biko

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I’ve been on a number of trains that left 1 minute before the scheduled departure time in the Netherlands. It mostly happened at a small station before which is a lot of padding in the timetable. Fortunately I was already in the train when I noticed that the stop was shorter than usual.

At another station where I did board, the train also left 1 minute earlier than the timetable but I was at the station 5 minutes before so no problems for me.
 

DanielB

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It does indeed happen in The Netherlands that the guard is a bit early with the departure process, as usually this will start about 30 seconds prior to departure time. So just like the UK. In the past it has happened however that trains closed their doors early as guards thought they saw the departure signal (a white light at the platform indicating the next signal is no longer at danger) come on, where it actually was a reflection of the sun.
To avoid that happening again, the departure signals are now being changed to a flashing white light.

Technically, departing really early is not even possible at major stations as it's not allowed to start the departure process while the signal is stil red. There are exceptions however: Hilversum station actually has countdown clocks next to the departure signals as the very busy Gooilijn requires trains to depart as soon as possible. These clocks count down to the moment the signal will turn green, thus speeding up the departure process.

With buses I've recently actually filed several complaints as my bus to work arrived ~ 3 minutes early at a stop just 4 minutes after the first stop of the route. And knowing the city, that's technically impossible without leaving early from the first stop.
 

furnessvale

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In the UK this is pretty standard. It's normally advertised in timetables and there can be station posters stating that 'the doors will close 30 prior to departure time'. In fact Virgin/Avanti West Coast advertise doors closing at Euston 2 minutes prior to departure. As it's advertised reasonably well most people are at least somewhat aware of it. We've had this discussion here before I believe, but if the doors close at the advertised departure time, the train will inevitable depart a little after that, technically late.

As said, random, more significantly early departures do happen, but usually by error.
And I have said before that the doors should be available to passengers up to the advertised departure time.

If TOCs wish to build in servicing time, then advertise the train as departing a minute earlier. That way, the passenger can have no complaint.
 

miklcct

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And I have said before that the doors should be available to passengers up to the advertised departure time.

If TOCs wish to build in servicing time, then advertise the train as departing a minute earlier. That way, the passenger can have no complaint.
In airlines it's standard that gate closes 20 minutes before departure. Maybe let's change this as well?
 

TheSeeker

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It's happened to me a few times at my station here in Belgium. The annoying thing is that the same IC train will regularly wait five minutes in Brussels Midi for a change of crew before heading to Antwerp.
 

zero

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That's interesting, because buses in Portugal, at least the ones from STCP, have a tolerance of +/- 5min, the only exception being the departure from the origin.
If you arrive 3 minutes early at an intermediate stop, and the bus never arrives, you can't make a complaint because, technically, if it did pass 4 minutes before schedule, IT WAS STILL ON SCHEDULE!

That is one of the main advantages of rail over road in Portugal. Trains only depart at the exact scheduled time, meaning that you're always safe as long as your arrive just a tad bit early from the target time.
If trains start disregarding departure times, everything just becomes chaotic for passengers.

If you know the bus can leave 5 minutes early then you just have to be at the stop 5 minutes early... this was the case for the local buses when I was a child in Australia.

In airlines it's standard that gate closes 20 minutes before departure. Maybe let's change this as well?

In practice it depends. If lots of people have not turned up with 10 minutes to go they will wait, if it's just you and you have no checked luggage then they may close at 30 minutes (they did reopen the door for me though).
 

30907

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In airlines it's standard that gate closes 20 minutes before departure. Maybe let's change this as well?
Most planes take rather longer to board than most trains - but this thread was about trains leaving before booked time rather than closing doors 30sec (or 1min) early.
 

TravelDream

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In practice it depends. If lots of people have not turned up with 10 minutes to go they will wait, if it's just you and you have no checked luggage then they may close at 30 minutes (they did reopen the door for me though).

Flights are quite different to trains or buses though.
After the gate is closes, two copies of the boarded manifest have to be printed and then signed by the dispatcher who has to take them onboard and verify it with the captain who also has to sign them. That'll take some time at the best of times.
Many airlines allow people to check-in bags up to 45 minutes pre-departure time so the last bags are also being put on usually.

I have seen some dirty tricks like final boarding calls before boarding has even started at some larger airports, but I have never seen a flight close early.
Airlines will be especially reticent to close if you have checked luggage as the plane can't leave with your luggage onboard under law. Modern technology does help now though as often the airline knows exactly which luggage bin your suitcase is in speeding up the search.
This doesn't apply to the low cost airlines as often because they are almost always still putting luggage on when the flight closes so the cargo doors are still open. They also carry far fewer bags than mainline airlines making the search easier.
 

Halish Railway

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The earliest I’ve ever left a station is 3 minutes early. This happened at Leyland when my train arrived in 3 minutes early, thus the guard must have opened and closed the doors without checking his/her watch. It’s very common for a Liverpool Lime Street to Blackpool North service to arrive in 3 minutes early despite leaving Euxton on time.

The only time I’ve ever missed a train as a result of it being early is when a Bradford to Skipton train left Shipley at xx:17 1/2 instead of the timetabled xx:19. I ran for the train off of a late running Ilkley to Bradford train and I would have made it if it had left at its advertised departure time.
 

miklcct

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The only time I’ve ever missed a train as a result of it being early is when a Bradford to Skipton train left Shipley at xx:17 1/2 instead of the timetabled xx:19. I ran for the train off of a late running Ilkley to Bradford train and I would have made it if it had left at its advertised departure time.
Did you get Delay Repay as a result of this?
 

Halish Railway

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Did you get Delay Repay as a result of this?
I didn’t bother as it didn’t mess up any plans; I just caught the Skipton train (originating at Leeds) that left 19 minutes later. I suppose that the wait gave me an excuse to go to Costa and get a drink which I would have done in Skipton anyway.

Had this occurred on a Sunday or on a less frequently served line then it would have been a completely different matter.
 

T-Karmel

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In Poland you can only close the doors and depart the train at the departure time, so it never happened to me over there.

Here in the UK it is a standard that doors may close 30s before departure, for some TOCs or stations it's even more than this (like 40s, 60s or 2 mins).

When I worked for a TOC which had 30s rule and I was on board member of staff yet the driver was operating doors, I had a driver who once closed the doors 90s before departure from the origin station and 2 mins from the next station.

At the TOC I currently work for, where the rule is also 30s, as a passenger, going to work it closed doors 100s before departure once and made me miss it because of that.

Another time, on my day off, I was walking to the station which is far away, and updated train status on the app to see if there's no delay or cancellation to find out it left origin and all intermediate stops... 20 mins early. Apparently they needed to vacate a platform.
 
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