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Trains in movies

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Murray J

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it's probably not something most film studios think about, seeing as they quite rightly assumed that most people don't know or don't care if the loco is the wrong colour, or the film is set in the 1800s but uses BR blue mk 2s, although admittedly the latter would probably stick out like a sore thumb.
 
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STEVIEBOY1

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I watched an old film last night "The Lady KIllers" and there was a lot of steam railway scenes in that. I think it was supposed to be North of Kings Cross, although I am not sure of the exact location. It was very good though.
 

RLBH

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it's probably not something most film studios think about, seeing as they quite rightly assumed that most people don't know or don't care if the loco is the wrong colour, or the film is set in the 1800s but uses BR blue mk 2s, although admittedly the latter would probably stick out like a sore thumb.
Studios will generally pick something that feels basically right for the setting, but aren't going to be overly concerned about accuracy unless there's particular reason to do so. Blue Mark 2s in the 1800s would feel wrong, because the blue is widely recognised as 'modern'. Maroon Mark 1s with a Castle on the front wouldn't feel wrong for the Royal Scot in 1939 (say) because you've got old-looking coaches, which can be mostly compartments, behind a big steam locomotive. If they do that, chances are it'll leave from Waterloo and run over the Forth Bridge, all of which is horribly inaccurate but it feels right to the audience.
 

MarlowDonkey

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Studios will generally pick something that feels basically right for the setting, but aren't going to be overly concerned about accuracy unless there's particular reason to do so.

Period dramas do however appear to go to considerable lengths to get the cars and other vehicles more or less right for the period. Also details of interiors and exteriors. So why not with trains? Perhaps there's an assumption that the number of people who would know whether a particular train or engine is correct are fewer than those who would identify a car, lorry or bus as out of place and time.
 

Meerkat

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Period dramas do however appear to go to considerable lengths to get the cars and other vehicles more or less right for the period. Also details of interiors and exteriors. So why not with trains? Perhaps there's an assumption that the number of people who would know whether a particular train or engine is correct are fewer than those who would identify a car, lorry or bus as out of place and time.
Much easier to source and transport. Pick your location/era, an expert will line up suitable stuff and then truck it to your location.
Far less likely that there will be a whole train suitable and running, and it’s probably in an inappropriate location.
Trucking a whole train to the chosen filming location and back is serious hassle let alone the cost.
 

Merthyr Imp

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I watched an old film last night "The Lady KIllers" and there was a lot of steam railway scenes in that. I think it was supposed to be North of Kings Cross, although I am not sure of the exact location. It was very good though.

Yes it was filmed at the southern end of Copenhagen Tunnel (the second tunnel north of Kings Cross) with the house located above the entrance to the tunnel.

A lot of railway footage not used in the film is available on the Video125 DVD 'Steam on 35mm 1 & 2'.
 

Whisky Papa

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It's been an entertaining trawl through this thread, and I quite agree that a minor anachronism or geographical substitution should not diminish enjoyment of a film or tv programme - particularly when many of these play fast and loose with the laws of physics or biology in much more incredible ways! It can be a shame that some productions that have made great efforts to create a period setting are undone by the railway aspect, but as in the many examples discussed upthread, this rarely has any real impact upon its enjoyment.

It is also easy to understand that no TOC is going to want a drama featuring a train crash to involve their brand, and heritage DMUs or MK1 stock on a preserved line is about as near as we are going to get. Silent Witness for one, and I'm sure at least one other British detective tv show in recent years, has had to adopt this approach. The result will be acceptable to the vast majority of the population, who are not only not train enthusiasts, they will not even be regular train users.

One series where trains seemed to play a major role was Crossing Lines, an unintentionally-funny show made for the American market about a pan-European crime agency, who were based in The Hague but managed to reach any corner of Europe by train in a just of a couple of hours. It was filmed almost entirely in Prague, which stood in for every other European city as required, apart from one episode where the lack of a palm-fringed coastline in Prague did actually require a visit to Croatia, which probably blew most of the budget for that series!

In one episode, the villain is identified from his seat number being compared to the passenger manifest which apparently all express trains in Europe have :s. If this might have been just about credible, the scene was shot on the upper deck of one of ČD's City Elefant suburban trains, which very clearly had no seat numbers visible. Surely a better attempt could have been made to get right something integral to the plot?

Finally, the most jaw-dropping moment I've ever had regardng trains on screen. Unable to sleep, I got up early one morning a few months back and, with little on offer, began watching one of the UFO-related "documentaries" that lurk among the digital channels. I forget the details, but the incident involved a US freight train that had (allegedly) come to grief due to an encounter with a UFO. There was a bit of simple CGI showing what was supposed to have happened, then the big reveal of the damged loco...

I was absolutely gobsmacked to be presented with a still of 81 016 with its cab stoved in after the 1982 Linslade accident! Considering the driver was killed, I found this shockingly bad "journalism" in very poor taste.
 

rogercov

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I watched an old film last night "The Lady KIllers" and there was a lot of steam railway scenes in that. I think it was supposed to be North of Kings Cross, although I am not sure of the exact location. It was very good though.
It was the end of Frederica Street (now demolished). There was no house at the end of the street, so they built one for the film. I have indicated the location of the house as a red square on the attached map. The map is the OS 1:2500 revised in 1952. The film was made in 1955.

Note the lines above the tunnel entrance which curve round into a goods & coal depot. These were in the back garden of the house and can be seen in some of the scenes.
ladykillers.jpg
 

STEVIEBOY1

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It was the end of Frederica Street (now demolished). There was no house at the end of the street, so they built one for the film. I have indicated the location of the house as a red square on the attached map. The map is the OS 1:2500 revised in 1952. The film was made in 1955.

Note the lines above the tunnel entrance which curve round into a goods & coal depot. These were in the back garden of the house and can be seen in some of the scenes.
View attachment 72733


Thank you for that, most interesting. :D
 

d9009alycidon

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Just finished binge watching the Netflix series "The Stranger". Set in Manchester there are a couple of railway sequences in the last two episodes, episode 7 features Stockport station and there are plenty of trains and due to changes of camera shots some inconsitancies are thrown up, a 350 EMU suddenly becomes a class 175 DMU in the reverse shot. The characters then board a heritage DMU and find themselves at Ramsbottom on the ELR. In the last eposide there is a chase sequence through the ELR sidings and amongst others classes 37, 47 and 50 are visible. A good watch as a series.
 

sprinterguy

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Just finished binge watching the Netflix series "The Stranger". Set in Manchester there are a couple of railway sequences in the last two episodes, episode 7 features Stockport station and there are plenty of trains and due to changes of camera shots some inconsitancies are thrown up, a 350 EMU suddenly becomes a class 175 DMU in the reverse shot. The characters then board a heritage DMU and find themselves at Ramsbottom on the ELR. In the last eposide there is a chase sequence through the ELR sidings and amongst others classes 37, 47 and 50 are visible. A good watch as a series.
Me and the missus did the same yesterday as it was extremely compelling watching and we really enjoyed the series. I also enjoyed recognising the locations used throughout the series with most of it being shot fairly locally. It was evident that the scenes at Stockport station (Actually in episode 4) had been shot, understandably, over an extended period of time given the range, frequency and disparity of train movements in the background of shots, but the only thing that jarred (Though not to the detriment of the plot) was the sudden juxtaposition of shots of exteriors of shiny modern units and the interior varnished wood panels and dark upholstery of a first gen DMU.

The Transpennine unit was, unless I'm greatly mistaken, a class 185 rather than a 350 - No reason for a 350 to be at Stockport in normal service - and the characters actually drove to Ramsbottom (Renamed to represent a fictional location on the national network, of course) after the male lead disembarked from the heritage unit before it departed after a fruitless search for his missing wife.
 
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MarlowDonkey

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There was a scene in the film "Darkest Hour" that jarred a bit.

It's about Churchill in May 1940. In it he takes a journey on the London Underground to Westminster. Before the trip, he consults the map at the station and it's clearly one of the earlier Beck versions. He then joins a train which is recognisably 1930s or earlier in style. However rather than a District or Circle line carriage, it's the deep tube small diameter version. It could well be a studio mock up anyway so the availability of prototypes is unimportant.

It seems a common error for film makers, there were scenes in the BBC's modern Sherlock Holmes series and one of Bond films, purported showing the sub surface lines at Westminster, running deep tube stock
 

Fawkes Cat

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It seems a common error for film makers, there were scenes in the BBC's modern Sherlock Holmes series and one of Bond films, purported showing the sub surface lines at Westminster, running deep tube stock
Can I run my 'get a sense of proportion' message again? It's a film. It's not real life. It just has to look good enough to drive the plot forward.

It's not just railways that suffer - anyone hoping to learn how to make marmalade from the 'Paddington' films will be sorely disappointed in their value as instructional videos.
 

sprinterguy

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There was a scene in the film "Darkest Hour" that jarred a bit.

It's about Churchill in May 1940. In it he takes a journey on the London Underground to Westminster. Before the trip, he consults the map at the station and it's clearly one of the earlier Beck versions. He then joins a train which is recognisably 1930s or earlier in style. However rather than a District or Circle line carriage, it's the deep tube small diameter version. It could well be a studio mock up anyway so the availability of prototypes is unimportant.

It seems a common error for film makers, there were scenes in the BBC's modern Sherlock Holmes series and one of Bond films, purported showing the sub surface lines at Westminster, running deep tube stock
I believe it's been covered previously in this or a similar thread, the tube train scene was filmed using the Mangapps Railway Museum's 59 stock vehicle:
https://www.heritagerailway.co.uk/1...s-to-railway-museum-for-world-war-two-scenes/
Its makers turned to Mangapps Railway Museum in Essex in search of an authentic prewar London Underground Tube train, and owner John Jolly was able to oblige from his collection, albeit with a slight caveat.

“The film company approached another museum for 1938 stock but they were unable to help, and we received a telephone call after someone had told them our 59 stock was similar to the prewar 38 stock they wanted, especially in appearance,”
There's only a limited quantity of suitable Underground stock that has been preserved in an appropriate condition, and a cursory internet search will show that that scene is considered controversial, or at least contrived, for more immediate reasons relating to the plot than the choice of rolling stock.
 
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colchesterken

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I T V. White House Farm about the Bamber murders. he gets a train from Witham. The train was correct if going to Braintree or Maldon a 1 st gen DMU
However they showed Witham as a single track/platform country station
In 1986 it would have been as now electric with 309 86s 312 and I think 321 were coming on stream
Would they let me be their consultant train spotter? Cost would be high tea and bacon sarnies all day!
 

wolfman

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The best and most authentic film I've seen regarding railways is La Bette Humaine.As the title suggests it's french and the tale of a driver going mad. The footplate scenes are superb.
 

WesternLancer

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Can I run my 'get a sense of proportion' message again? It's a film. It's not real life. It just has to look good enough to drive the plot forward.

It's not just railways that suffer - anyone hoping to learn how to make marmalade from the 'Paddington' films will be sorely disappointed in their value as instructional videos.
No but if James Bond got into his Aston and they cut to a scene of him driving the car from the inside, and it was a mini - they would be regarded as a laughing stock...
 

Meerkat

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No but if James Bond got into his Aston and they cut to a scene of him driving the car from the inside, and it was a mini - they would be regarded as a laughing stock...

But if they cut to the interior of a Jaguar most of the audience wouldn’t realise.
And it’s a completely different situation as Aston are very keen to bend over backwards to get the shots of their cars right.
 

WesternLancer

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But if they cut to the interior of a Jaguar most of the audience wouldn’t realise.
And it’s a completely different situation as Aston are very keen to bend over backwards to get the shots of their cars right.
But they would not do that cos they would know they'd get ridiculed (on Top Gear to start with...)
 

Meerkat

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But they would not do that cos they would know they'd get ridiculed (on Top Gear to start with...)
On IMDB there are plenty of postings in the goof section about car continuity errors.
Not just model/year, exterior v interior, fake noise etc issues but cars changing spec during sequences.
 

WesternLancer

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On IMDB there are plenty of postings in the goof section about car continuity errors.
Not just model/year, exterior v interior, fake noise etc issues but cars changing spec during sequences.
reassuring to know!!
 

d9009alycidon

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My wife is an ex nurse and I have lost count of the number of times she has ridiculed a medical scene on films and television, not following proper procedure, wrong equipment etc. The favourite is nurses and doctors wearing makeup in sterile conditons such as an operating theatre.
 

WesternLancer

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My wife is an ex nurse and I have lost count of the number of times she has ridiculed a medical scene on films and television, not following proper procedure, wrong equipment etc. The favourite is nurses and doctors wearing makeup in sterile conditons such as an operating theatre.
ha ha - but are you saying if I went into hospital for an op the staff wouldn't be glammed up? That would be a shock...what about it you go private?
 

Meerkat

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Must be the police, particularly detectives who watch TV and laugh most at the inaccuracies (and probably think “I wish!”)
 

jh64

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The trailer for the new Peter Rabbit film has a Trans-Pennine 185 with a vintage compartment interior, complete with wood panelling and curtains! I definitely agree most stuff in the thread could be considered nit-picking, but getting the right century is a low bar...
 

Meerkat

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The trailer for the new Peter Rabbit film has a Trans-Pennine 185 with a vintage compartment interior, complete with wood panelling and curtains! I definitely agree most stuff in the thread could be considered nit-picking, but getting the right century is a low bar...
It’s got talking rabbits, I don’t think you need to worry about realism!!
 

70014IronDuke

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It’s got talking rabbits, I don’t think you need to worry about realism!!

What's the problem regarding talking rabbits and realism? I talk to them on a re..... ah, there's a man in a white coat at the door, just a minute ...
 

dmkc

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The regional quirks of the first Peter rabbit movie, rail included to keep it on topic, has me rocking back and forward in frustration ever time I see it with the kids.

Pretty sure we aren't in the lake District anymore
 

pdeaves

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It’s got talking rabbits, I don’t think you need to worry about realism!!
Talking rabbits is, for me, effectively an English overdub so we can understand the animals communicating (which they do in real life, just not in human language). Wearing human-type clothes with special holes for ears/tail is a different matter. :)
 
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