Trainsplit - lost card

[londonbridge]

Correct, that is the whole object of the system. Often the customer doesn't know which card they used so you ask them to try all their cards if necessary and they usually come up with the correct one, or the last 4 digits may be on their confirmation to help.

Not with train tickets but I've had similar, I arrived at the box office to collect some theatre tickets, showed my card when asked, the guy looked up the booking then asked "Do you have another card"?, at which I realised I'd shown him the wrong one. Apologised, showed him the correct one, he gave me the tickets and all was well,.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I'm not sure what the purpose of requiring a card is, if it's not to check it is the card used at purchase...

The retailer decides if they need the same card or not for collections. It's imposible to tell before the CTR is entered if it is same card or any card so the same process is used for both.

 

[Joe Paxton]

The retailer decides if they need the same card or not for collections. It's imposible to tell before the CTR is entered if it is same card or any card so the same process is used for both.

If the flag is set for 'same card', I'm guessing that just the last four digits of the card number are used for matching verification? (Or is there also some sort of cardholder surname matching?)

 

[Wallsendmag]

It depends on the TIS.

 

[W-on-Sea]

This happened to me a few months ago, I phoned Trainsplit/Raileasy and they allowed me to pick them up with any card.

 

[Paul Kelly]

It's imposible to tell before the CTR is entered if it is same card or any card so the same process is used for both.

I don't find this a very convincing explanation! Why not ask for the card (if necessary) after the customer has entered the transaction reference, then you avoid the confusion caused by having to insert a card that may be unrelated to the transaction.

 

[Haywain]

I don't find this a very convincing explanation! Why not ask for the card (if necessary) after the customer has entered the transaction reference, then you avoid the confusion caused by having to insert a card that may be unrelated to the transaction.

Probably because doing it the other way round would involve large numbers of same card transactions timing out while people faff around trying to find the card.

 

[father_jack]

Not with train tickets but I've had similar, I arrived at the box office to collect some theatre tickets, showed my card when asked, the guy looked up the booking then asked "Do you have another card"?, at which I realised I'd shown him the wrong one. Apologised, showed him the correct one, he gave me the tickets and all was well,.

Which brings the original point home that why should a railway clerk give out the tickets when it probbaly wouldn't be expected of a box office clerk ?

 

[Wallsendmag]

I don't find this a very convincing explanation! Why not ask for the card (if necessary) after the customer has entered the transaction reference, then you avoid the confusion caused by having to insert a card that may be unrelated to the transaction.

Obviously the several TIS suppliers that all use the same process don't agree.

 

[Haywain]

Obviously the several TIS suppliers that all use the same process don't agree.

They don’t have much choice - they have to meet accreditation standards.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Which brings the original point home that why should a railway clerk give out the tickets when it probbaly wouldn't be expected of a box office clerk ?

I certainly wouldn't be happy to print tickets without the correct card being present, if my machine highlighted that it needed the correct card to be presented. 9/10 it seems as if any card is acceptable, but occasionally my machine insists that it must be the same one used to pay for the tickets. My employer has specifically instructed employees not to override the system in this scenario- I always refuse to issue tickets as per my TOC's instruction and advise the passenger to seek advice from the company they bought their tickets from.

 

[mmh]

I don't find this a very convincing explanation! Why not ask for the card (if necessary) after the customer has entered the transaction reference, then you avoid the confusion caused by having to insert a card that may be unrelated to the transaction.

User experience. Customers are used to cash machines where the card is asked for first. It's also why most automated machines won't complete a transaction until the card is removed, to prevent cards being left behind. Multi-function cash machines usually work on this principle - if you choose to withdraw money you'll have to remove your card for the money to be dispensed and start again if you want another service, whereas if you begin with another service you'll be asked if you want another one. Asking for cash will always end the "session" though.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Customers are used to cash machines where the card is asked for first.

Yes, it would be easier if it actually was asked for first. These days there can easily be several screen presses before you even get to the point where it asks for the card, e.g. on the Wordline large screen machines that GWR have installed at Reading, from memory:

• 1st press to interrupt the screen saver
• 2nd press to say I want to buy tickets
• 3rd press to say I want to collect previously purchased tickets

There is also usually a short delay in response time between each of these presses. I then have to get my wallet out and retrieve the card, insert it, wait for acceptance and then reverse the process, returning my wallet to my pocket for security before I retrieve the scrap of paper on which I've written the booking reference (or my phone to view it in an e-mail). Then type it in, return my phone to my pocket and retrieve my wallet again (where I will store the tickets) while I wait for them to print.

while people faff around trying to find the card

Just my personal experience but finding the booking reference usually involves a lot more "faffing" than finding the card. I retrieve my card several times per day and don't really have to think about doing it. Also as noted above the current process involves a lot of "context switching", from reading and pressing the screen to dealing with card and wallet, then back to the screen again to enter the code and finally back to the wallet to put the tickets away.

I think the key limiting factor for me is I am not comfortable having my card and wallet out of my pocket for any longer than necessary and certainly not while I'm doing a task that involves cognitive distraction (such as entering the booking code). From my point of view a much better sequence of events would be:

• Get the booking code to hand as I walk up to the machine
• Tap at the screen a few times to bring up the screen where I enter the code
• Enter the code which I'll have easily to hand
• Put away the code (phone or paper scrap) and take out my wallet
• Insert the card and then return to wallet, wait for tickets to print (shouldn't happen until card has been removed, to avoid left-behind cards)
• Keep my wallet out while attention is focused on the tickets printing and putting them away (no cognitive distraction involved here)

I don't know if it's just me and the way I do things but I would find the above sequence much more convenient and less cognitively taxing!

 

[mmh]

Yes, it would be easier if it actually was asked for first. These days there can easily be several screen presses before you even get to the point where it asks for the card, e.g. on the Wordline large screen machines that GWR have installed at Reading, from memory:

• 1st press to interrupt the screen saver
• 2nd press to say I want to buy tickets
• 3rd press to say I want to collect previously purchased tickets

That's inevitable with a multi-function machine though. For a ticket machine, until you've said you want to collect tickets it can't ask for a card. The alternative would be to have different machines for collection. In early days at least some of the London Terminals had them. They can be promoted / signposted as a benefit for the passenger but in reality that's not why they had them - they were cheaper. At most stations it'd be completely impractical.

 

[35B]

That's inevitable with a multi-function machine though. For a ticket machine, until you've said you want to collect tickets it can't ask for a card. The alternative would be to have different machines for collection. In early days at least some of the London Terminals had them. They can be promoted / signposted as a benefit for the passenger but in reality that's not why they had them - they were cheaper. At most stations it'd be completely impractical.

Funny, I've used machines where the choice of purchase or collect is on the first screen (so possibly one press to close screensaver), and the rest has been a very straightforward, cashpoint like, flow. Simple screen design, and straightforward menus.

 

[mmh]

Funny, I've used machines where the choice of purchase or collect is on the first screen (so possibly one press to close screensaver), and the rest has been a very straightforward, cashpoint like, flow. Simple screen design, and straightforward menus.

Indeed, it's the first choice on all machines I've ever used. I don't see how it could be otherwise. But it can't ask you for a card until you've said what you want to do.

 

[crablab]

I guess the argument is that it would be an inconvenience to enter the booking reference and then discover you don't have the right card to complete the process.

I would say it's a worse user experience to require everyone to enter the card if (as some people have mentioned above) most of the time it's "any card" and therefore a entering a card is not required.

Indeed, wouldn't it make *more* sense for the TVM to ask you for the booking reference and then ask for the card the ticket was booked with, if required.
As opposed to asking for the card the ticket was booked for *without* knowing whether it's actually required. A key principle of UX design is keeping the user informed and giving them accurate information.

 

[35B]

I guess the argument is that it would be an inconvenience to enter the booking reference and then discover you don't have the right card to complete the process.

I would say it's a worse user experience to require everyone to enter the card if (as some people have mentioned above) most of the time it's "any card" and therefore a entering a card is not required.

Indeed, wouldn't it make *more* sense for the TVM to ask you for the booking reference and then ask for the card the ticket was booked with, if required.
As opposed to asking for the card the ticket was booked for *without* knowing whether it's actually required. A key principle of UX design is keeping the user informed and giving them accurate information.

From a security theatre point of view, creating the belief that the right card must be used, and is an entry point to the transaction, works rather well for me. It tells me, as a lay user, that the system is validating the transaction against the card I've entered, and therefore mitigating against the possibility of someone stealing my ticket(s).

 

[crablab]

The issue being it is entirely unnecessary security theatre.

- Anyone intent on exploiting the system will already know how this works and will succeed.
- People chancing their luck and using a card they found on the floor to buy train tickets online aren't being very clever (when they could just use the card at a POS up to the SCA limits) and 3DS is the optimal solution as it prevents the transaction from completing in the first place. Regardless, you can't prevent them collecting tickets anyway as they have the card.
- And those that use stolen card details without a physical card should still be prevented via existing anti-fraud mechanisms, plus 3DS from completing the transaction.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Yes, it would be easier if it actually was asked for first. These days there can easily be several screen presses before you even get to the point where it asks for the card, e.g. on the Wordline large screen machines that GWR have installed at Reading, from memory:

• 1st press to interrupt the screen saver
• 2nd press to say I want to buy tickets
• 3rd press to say I want to collect previously purchased tickets

There is also usually a short delay in response time between each of these presses. I then have to get my wallet out and retrieve the card, insert it, wait for acceptance and then reverse the process, returning my wallet to my pocket for security before I retrieve the scrap of paper on which I've written the booking reference (or my phone to view it in an e-mail). Then type it in, return my phone to my pocket and retrieve my wallet again (where I will store the tickets) while I wait for them to print.

Just my personal experience but finding the booking reference usually involves a lot more "faffing" than finding the card. I retrieve my card several times per day and don't really have to think about doing it. Also as noted above the current process involves a lot of "context switching", from reading and pressing the screen to dealing with card and wallet, then back to the screen again to enter the code and finally back to the wallet to put the tickets away.

I think the key limiting factor for me is I am not comfortable having my card and wallet out of my pocket for any longer than necessary and certainly not while I'm doing a task that involves cognitive distraction (such as entering the booking code). From my point of view a much better sequence of events would be:

• Get the booking code to hand as I walk up to the machine
• Tap at the screen a few times to bring up the screen where I enter the code
• Enter the code which I'll have easily to hand
• Put away the code (phone or paper scrap) and take out my wallet
• Insert the card and then return to wallet, wait for tickets to print (shouldn't happen until card has been removed, to avoid left-behind cards)
• Keep my wallet out while attention is focused on the tickets printing and putting them away (no cognitive distraction involved here)

I don't know if it's just me and the way I do things but I would find the above sequence much more convenient and less cognitively taxing!

In that case use your phone.

 

[maniacmartin]

My ideal TVM design would have a message that is part of the screensaver that said something like "Insert card to collect prebooked ticket or press screen to buy ticket"
If you press accidetally, still have a button for ToD, but if you insert a card when the screensaver is on, the machine should be able to detect that and go to ToD with no button presses at all.

 

[MikeWh]

If you press accidetally, still have a button for ToD,

Which would also be needed if there's a queue and the TVM doesn't have time to go back to screensaver.