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Trainsplit - lost card

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chlxewhit

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I paid for tickets to London from Plymouth a few weeks ago using my debit card. Typically, I lost my debit card this morning and am aware I need the card to collect my tickets at the station.

I have contacted TrainSplit through email and Twitter. I am due to leave on Sunday morning. Am I likely to hear from them?

Any other advice? Will the station give me tickets if I have proof of identity etc?

Thank you x
 
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yorkie

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Firstly it might not require the actual card; secondly the ticket office should print the tickets if you provide appropriate ID.

Are you visiting the station tomorrow?

There are representatives from Trainsplit/Raileasy (and their various suppliers) on this forum so I can alert them to this thread tomorrow if you are still concerned; they can set the transaction to any card (if it's not already set to any card), thus avoiding the need to provide ID at the ticket office.
 

chlxewhit

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I've ended up refunding my tickets and booking new ones as I stressed too much. Thank you for your help however!
 

yorkie

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OK. There wasn't a need to do that, but it's your choice.

If you are worried about losing cards (or tickets!) in future, I recommend considering e-tickets; you can save them on any number of electronic devices and/or you can print them, and there are no collection references to worry about and no need to rely on TVMs or ticket offices.

You get one PDF with all relevant tickets for the journey which makes it just as easy as using a through ticket. It also makes things easier when it comes to making Delay Repay claims as you just attach the PDF to the claim, rather than have to photograph tickets.
 

father_jack

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Firstly it might not require the actual card; secondly the ticket office should print the tickets if you provide appropriate ID.

Are you visiting the station tomorrow?

There are representatives from Trainsplit/Raileasy (and their various suppliers) on this forum so I can alert them to this thread tomorrow if you are still concerned; they can set the transaction to any card (if it's not already set to any card), thus avoiding the need to provide ID at the ticket office.
Yorkie why "should" the booking office print the tickets ? If it is set to flag 1 it requires the card to be present end of. Yes if it's flag 3 any card would work as the vendor accepts responsibility for anything untoward surrounding the transaction. No staff member should be expected to make themself an accesory to fraud by defeating the purpose of the payment card being present.
 

strawbrick

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Morning all.

Last year a friend and I did a round-Britain train tour over a period of 9 days. We had something like 25 tickets each (there were a number of split journeys involved) and we kept them in plastic wallets in an A4 folder.

Yorkie has referred to "e-tickets". I have to admit total ignorance of these - any chance of some guidance as to how to get them for our next trip (if of course the Covid-19 regulations ever get withdrawn)?

Thanks.
 

Adam Williams

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Yorkie has referred to "e-tickets". I have to admit total ignorance of these - any chance of some guidance as to how to get them for our next trip (if of course the Covid-19 regulations ever get withdrawn)?

So, with TrainSplit it's an option when you've put the journey in the basket:

Screenshot showing journey fulfilment options on trainsplit.com

There's a similar option in the app too.

These will get compiled into a PDF file for each journey and all tickets necessary will be put in the same file for you (e.g. if I'm going from Birmingham to Newbury, I might have paid for splits for Birmingham to Banbury, Banbury to Oxford etc - all of these will be placed as separate pages in the same PDF so that they're easy to access during ticket inspections).

You can show the PDF on your phone, add the tickets to your Apple Wallet or just print out the PDFs if you want a paper back-up.

Of course, e-tickets aren't unique to TrainSplit - but you'll probably find that some other retailers would e.g. issue you with a separate PDF e-Ticket for each split rather than neatly combining the necessary tickets together.
 

mmh

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Yorkie why "should" the booking office print the tickets ? If it is set to flag 1 it requires the card to be present end of. Yes if it's flag 3 any card would work as the vendor accepts responsibility for anything untoward surrounding the transaction. No staff member should be expected to make themself an accesory to fraud by defeating the purpose of the payment card being present.

Because the passenger has gone to the ticket office with a record of their purchase and the TOD collection code, e.g. their purchase confirmation email, and proof of their identity.

Where's the "fraud," and what do you think should happen?
 

father_jack

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Because the passenger has gone to the ticket office with a record of their purchase and the TOD collection code, e.g. their purchase confirmation email, and proof of their identity.

Where's the "fraud," and what do you think should happen?
Because who's card paid for it ? There is no way of knowing. My card I dropped in the pub last night, your card that your son or daughter "borrowed" from you while you were in the bath after you you told them you weren't paying for their tickets ? The name will of course be correct on the booking.

That is the reason for payment card present for collection (flag 1) or any card present for collection (flag 3). Only if "flag 3" for any card collection is set can the tickets be collected with ID.

From the IKB knowledgebase (the staff information manual, my bold and underline)
2. SSTVM is working but the customer is unable to recall the booking.

a)Ask the customer for the CTR reference and the payment card used for the purchase and recall the booking (where the customer is unable to present the same card request the purchase of a new ticket).

or

If the ToD seller has set the CTR reference to permit collection using any payment card (Flag 3) then recall the booking with a different payment card (where no payment card is presented but the seller has set the collection to "any card" collection (Flag 3) then subject to photographic identity confirming the name of the customer (e.g. driving licence or similar id as determined by the issuing office owning TOC) the tickets may be issued.)
 

yorkie

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Morally they should; I never had any issues with any ticket office I used when doing this, if I had brought the wrong card to the station (I now prefer e-tickets).

Also I am not convinced that the position stated in iKB is actually lawful; I have never experienced a refusal on those grounds and it doesn't seem proportionate to me. Also the ticket office staff can't tell exactly which card was used anyway!
 

father_jack

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Morally they should; I never had any issues with any ticket office I used when doing this, if I had brought the wrong card to the station (I now prefer e-tickets).
I don't disagree at all, the industry needs to be someway supportive of the passenger who has an issue, think it's called customer service !!!

But I can recall an all day meeting where a financial man was telling the gathering how much the TOC had lost in fraud when it defaulted all it's TOD bookings to "any card" collect. Later in the day a customer service man was saying how tickets should always be released !!! I suggested by email that a disclaimer be given to staff that they were not held responsible if a fraud did take place. The response went "can't do that, leaves us open for the staff to commit fraud !!!". (SIGHS...).

Also the ticket office staff can't tell exactly which card was used anyway!

Correct, that is the whole object of the system. Often the customer doesn't know which card they used so you ask them to try all their cards if necessary and they usually come up with the correct one, or the last 4 digits may be on their confirmation to help.
 

Adam Williams

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Because who's card paid for it ? There is no way of knowing. My card I dropped in the pub last night, your card that your son or daughter "borrowed" from you while you were in the bath after you you told them you weren't paying for their tickets ? The name will of course be correct on the booking.

This is rather off-topic now, but I'm not convinced many of these problems hold much (any?) weight in the times of 3-D Secure. Any decent retailer/card issuer combination should be presenting the attacker with a 3-D Secure challenge, so using someone else's card you found in the pub should be less and less of an option.

And if I recall correctly, you can trigger a flag 3 booking simply by paying with PayPal @ some retailers (to which you can just add the card you wanted to use in the first place as a payment method, no?).

And why is it okay to have e-Tickets fulfilled, but not okay to pick up a TOD booking without the physical card in hand?

All of these security measures seem like a relic of the past, and do little else than piss off the customer due to the poor UX they then have to deal with when traveling.
 

father_jack

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And if I recall correctly, you can trigger a flag 3 booking simply by paying with PayPal @ some retailers (to which you can just add the card you wanted to use in the first place as a payment method, no?).
And PayPal are happy to take £1.00 booking fee on top of the £1.50 that the unfortunate customer has probably paid Trainline already.
 

Pete 1981

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Happened to me last year, I just phoned them and they sent me a new reference number that didn't require a card.
 

LA50041

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And PayPal are happy to take £1.00 booking fee on top of the £1.50 that the unfortunate customer has probably paid Trainline already.
I’ve never paid PayPal a booking fee on any tickets from multiple retailers.
Never use Trainline however, so they might
 

crablab

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decent retailer/card issuer combination should be presenting the attacker with a 3-D Secure challenge, so using someone else's card you found in the pub should be less and less of an option.

Absolutely. This is the best way to prevent fraud.

Source: I worked in the industry.

Besides, in the "card lost in pub" scenario that was mentioned above, if someone has used a card they've found on the floor then they can pick the ticket up from the machine with the very same card anyway...

What happens if the customer booked with a virtual/disposable card which has no physical piece of plastic for them to insert?
 

alistairlees

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Absolutely. This is the best way to prevent fraud.

Source: I worked in the industry.

Besides, in the "card lost in pub" scenario that was mentioned above, if someone has used a card they've found on the floor then they can pick the ticket up from the machine with the very same card anyway...

What happens if the customer booked with a virtual/disposable card which has no physical piece of plastic for them to insert?
On your last point, if a customer uses something like Apple Pay, then the collection flag must be set to "any card collect". Virtual cards are often used by corporate accounts, but they will be set to "any card collect" anyway.
 

crablab

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Virtual cards are often used by corporate accounts, but they will be set to "any card collect" anyway.

Sure, which really defeats the point of asking for a card to be inserted, especially as virtual cards and Google/Apple Pay become much more commonplace ;)
 

Haywain

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On your last point, if a customer uses something like Apple Pay, then the collection flag must be set to "any card collect". Virtual cards are often used by corporate accounts, but they will be set to "any card collect" anyway.
here are many different ways to pay now and the industry may need to find a new way of dealing with this, especially from a fraud prevention perspective, but at present a change would also require all TIS providers to make system changes to the process applied to ToD collection which is an accreditation matter and therefore time consuming and expensive (as you will be aware). For fraud prevention the best approach would be to ensure that all risk is applied at the point of payment and not later, a matter on which you may have a view.
 

crablab

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For fraud prevention the best approach would be to ensure that all risk is applied at the point of payment and not later, a matter on which you may have a view.
Otherwise known as 3DSecure/Verified by Visa/Amex SafeKey
 

Adam Williams

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Sure, which really defeats the point of asking for a card to be inserted, especially as virtual cards and Google/Apple Pay become much more commonplace ;)

You might know this, @crablab - can a merchant tell that e.g. a Monzo virtual card has been used to make a payment (and if so, how does this work for the merchant?)? It seems to me @alistairlees is suggesting that these can (and are) auto-detected by some means, so I guess there must be some method but I can't see anything in a common payment provider's docs.
 

crablab

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can a merchant tell that e.g. a Monzo virtual card has been used to make a payment
Depends on how their acquirer works but in theory, yes. Virtual cards are a different product and use a different BIN.
You wouldn't be allowed to do anything "special" here though, in the case it was a virtual card. All Mastercards must be accepted equally, for example, and maintaining lists of BINs is difficult and just creates more problems down the line (eg. when a new BIN is added).
 

yorkie

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I think this is a thread worth alerting @island to ;)

@chlxewhit it sounds like you are sorted and don't require me to alert anyone at Trainsplit/Raileasy?
 

317 forever

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Firstly it might not require the actual card; secondly the ticket office should print the tickets if you provide appropriate ID.

Are you visiting the station tomorrow?

There are representatives from Trainsplit/Raileasy (and their various suppliers) on this forum so I can alert them to this thread tomorrow if you are still concerned; they can set the transaction to any card (if it's not already set to any card), thus avoiding the need to provide ID at the ticket office.

Certainly at King's Lynn in 2016 they did print off some tickets when I showed them my fast ticket email. They did require me to sing that I collected them from the ticket office.
 

alistairlees

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Certainly at King's Lynn in 2016 they did print off some tickets when I showed them my fast ticket email. They did require me to sing that I collected them from the ticket office.
Booking office staff making up rules again.:D
 

trebor79

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All of these security measures seem like a relic of the past, and do little else than piss off the customer due to the poor UX they then have to deal with when traveling.
Tapping in the collection code on a poorly calibrated screen whilst trying not to drop my wallet and avoid putting my bag down into the puddles is the annoying art from me.
I have a vague memory that many years ago if you paid with some credit cards, you inserted your card in the ticket machine et voila, it spat the tickets out without needing you to tap the reference number in. That was useful
 

father_jack

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Tapping in the collection code on a poorly calibrated screen whilst trying not to drop my wallet and avoid putting my bag down into the puddles is the annoying art from me.
I have a vague memory that many years ago if you paid with some credit cards, you inserted your card in the ticket machine et voila, it spat the tickets out without needing you to tap the reference number in. That was useful
Yes that was excellent !!! But the PCI DSS ( Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard ) changes a few years ago put pay to linking the payment card to whatever software the TVMs use so it's now a no no,
 

Taunton

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I never get this. I buy train tickets for my junior staff with my own card, e-mail them the reference number. They just have to put their own card in at the station, enter PIN, enter reference, and get the tickets. How does that work?

The railway is desperate to move on to Advances. In the time between purchase and travel, cards expire and are replaced (often it seems replaced months before expiry, but you now have a different card). How does it handle that?

Tapping in the collection code on a poorly calibrated screen whilst trying not to drop my wallet and avoid putting my bag down into the puddles is the annoying art from me.
At least that's better than trying to pay £2 for parking in a busy and noisy street where the council has used a pay-by-phone supplier (or changed their supplier, there now seem a huge number) with one you have not used before.
 

crablab

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They just have to put their own card in at the station, enter PIN, enter reference, and get the tickets. How does that work?

You never need to enter the PIN. The TVM isn't performing any operations with the card, just getting the PAN (long card number) and looking it up in a database.
You aren't permitted to store PANs in the clear, so it will get hashed along the way.
I'm not sure what the purpose of requiring a card is, if it's not to check it is the card used at purchase...
 
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