Transdev Blazefield

[Deerfold]

It doesn’t really matter. My point is the wage is low and achievable relatively early in one’s career. So why would someone take that amount of money for a job that isn’t easy..

But for most people, it isn't achievable, or they'd be achieving it. I earned about that in the early 2000s with London weighting and a degree.

The difficulty and skills required is more relevant.

 

[JetBlast]

But for most people, it isn't achievable, or they'd be achieving it. I earned about that in the early 2000s with London weighting and a degree.

The difficulty and skills required is more relevant.

Many people are achieving it. If they weren’t they wouldn’t be a shortage of drivers as they could attract more candidates not have a constant advertising campaign.

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

To be fair Keighley have some appalling drivers too, they seem to allocate the worst of them on to the Shuttle.

Only ever had 1 issue with a Keighley driver and it was on the Shuttle. A real nasty sod he was

 

[Goldfish62]

I know at least 1 who is…

There's always going to be the occasional outlier.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

Many people are achieving it. If they weren’t they wouldn’t be a shortage of drivers as they could attract more candidates not have a constant advertising campaign.

There’s a lot of speculation here. You can’t compare industries to one another as they have entirely different businesses structures. It’s like, an engineering machinist is obviously going to be paid a lot more than a bus driver, they’ve trained years to be able do that job. Whereas anyone with a drivers licence can get a job as a bus driver, as long as they pass there PCV test.

Or to compare with retail, there’s so much more profit in those businesses, they can afford to match the same salaries for an otherwise much easier job.

 

[JetBlast]

There’s a lot of speculation here. You can’t compare industries to one another as they have entirely different businesses structures. It’s like, an engineering machinist is obviously going to be paid a lot more than a bus driver, they’ve trained years to be able do that job. Whereas anyone with a drivers licence can get a job as a bus driver, as long as they pass there PCV test.

Or to compare with retail, there’s so much more profit in those businesses, they can afford to match the same salaries for an otherwise much easier job.

That’s my point. People coming out of school can get the equivalent of a bus driver straight away. I was one of them. Left school and got a job in IT - they paid me £25k and trained me up. If people can do that why would you want to be a bus driver? It’s not an easy job for what they pay.

But not matter what I say the Transdev fan boys will defend that poor wage….

 

[Deerfold]

That’s my point. People coming out of school can get the equivalent of a bus driver straight away. I was one of them. Left school and got a job in IT - they paid me £25k and trained me up. If people can do that why would you want to be a bus driver? It’s not an easy job for what they pay.

But not matter what I say the Transdev fan boys will defend that poor wage….

But the point is, there's very few people in Burnley manage that. How many similar positions are there? The average wage in the North West was £29k last year.

 

[JetBlast]

The average wage in the North West was £29k last year.

My point proven. They pay below average wage. This is why there is a shortage of drivers leading to service issues.

 

[Deerfold]

My point proven. They pay below average wage. This is why there is a shortage of drivers leading to service issues.

That wasn't your point earlier.

It doesn’t really matter. My point is the wage is low and achievable relatively early in one’s career. So why would someone take that amount of money for a job that isn’t easy..

That’s my point. People coming out of school can get the equivalent of a bus driver straight away. I was one of them. Left school and got a job in IT - they paid me £25k and trained me up. If people can do that why would you want to be a bus driver? It’s not an easy job for what they pay.

But not matter what I say the Transdev fan boys will defend that poor wage….

I haven't said Transdev's pay is brilliant. I've simply said that most people ion Burnley don't earn the wage you do - and that jobs starting at more than £25k are not plentiful in the area - if they were, the average would be much higher.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

That’s my point. People coming out of school can get the equivalent of a bus driver straight away. I was one of them. Left school and got a job in IT - they paid me £25k and trained me up. If people can do that why would you want to be a bus driver? It’s not an easy job for what they pay.

But not matter what I say the Transdev fan boys will defend that poor wage….

There’s nothing wrong with that statement. The reality is, as someone else has also mentioned, the bus industry just doesn’t make enough money to justify the higher wages. I’m sure they’d love to offer higher salaries but they’d end up going bust, and it’s not just Transdev either, that applies to all operators, from independents like reliance through to the big boys such as GoAhead and First.

 

[JetBlast]

There’s nothing wrong with that statement. The reality is, as someone else has also mentioned, the bus industry just doesn’t make enough money to justify the higher wages. I’m sure they’d love to offer higher salaries but they’d end up going bust, and it’s not just Transdev either, that applies to all operators, from independents like reliance through to the big boys such as GoAhead and First.

Maybe if they didn’t spend the money on gimmicks they could give the drivers more money.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Funny how when it comes to Transdev, everyone seems to either be "a fanboy" or "a hater". They truly are the Virgin of buses it seems...

The reality of course is very similar to the other big companies: your opinion will likely vary depending on how well run your local operations are, or even on whether your route is considered a priority. If you live on the Denby Darts route you'll have a good opinion on Transdev, maybe if you live on the Keighley shuttle your opinion will differ.

 

[M803UYA]

There’s nothing wrong with that statement. The reality is, as someone else has also mentioned, the bus industry just doesn’t make enough money to justify the higher wages. I’m sure they’d love to offer higher salaries but they’d end up going bust, and it’s not just Transdev either, that applies to all operators, from independents like reliance through to the big boys such as GoAhead and First.

As I've said before, there's other things to consider besides the pay on offer. What conditions do their drivers work under? Do they have management on at them every 5 minutes? Does their management trust them to get on with the job? Do the buses have CCTV? Does the fleet have Greenroad/Mix boxes onboard monitoring how they're driven? Is the telematics system used to help the drivers, or to fire them? How achievable are the timetables? Is there enough running time on the services, or do you have to chase your tail for 5 and a half hours, get no break and just get abuse off the customers because two buses in front of you aren't running? All those things make a driver leave if they have to deal with them.
I work for a small operator who has 7 Ford Transit minibuses working special needs contracts for West Yorkshire Metro. I'm not paid the highest in the area, but I have an allocated vehicle and allocated contract. I am trusted to get on with the job and if there's a problem I'm to call in. But I'm not constantly on at by the management, and if there's an issue I know I'll be defended with the people paying us to run the contract.
I could earn 'more' working for CT Plus, Arriva or at least four smaller operators in my area. There are reasons the first two constantly advertise for staff - the state of the vehicles operated and the conditions the staff work under. The industry, as a whole needs to revisit how it treats people. That's going to take a long time and the signs do not look promising. For years the attitude has been 'there's the door if you don't like it'.
The combined effort of all the big operators in West Yorkshire to get people into the driving profession is positive, but there is a lot more to do beyond how much people are paid. It is but one part of the problem.

 

[philthetube]

Bearing in mind that the minimum wage for a 22 year old is currently £9.50, even in a low wage area many will be earning more than Transdev pay.

 

[GusB]

We're drifting off-topic with discussion of minimum wage etc. If anyone wishes to discuss how much a 16 year-old could potentially earn, please feel free to start a new thread in General Discussion.

In the meantime, let's stick with discussing Transdev. Thanks.

 

[SCH117X]

Talking about Connexions, they have at very short notice reduced a lot of services this week

Timetable changes from 16th May 2022 - Connexions Buses

Due to the ongoing driver shortages that the bus industry is suffering from, we’ve had to make some difficult decisions in order to try and operate all services that we publish. This means that the 781, 923 and 412 will operate Monday to Friday only (no Saturday Service) Super13 becomes an...

www.connexionsbuses.com

Most services on Saturdays are either withdrawn or reduced, and the X52 no longer runs to Ilkley

So there must also be a driver shortage there as well

And have been for a number of months - they cut a number of services last September (no X6A in Harrogate since) and scrapped Saturday X1s last month.

 

[Swimbar]

And have been for a number of months - they cut a number of services last September (no X6A in Harrogate since) and scrapped Saturday X1s last month.

Better to publish a reduced timetable that you can provide drivers for than having to put out updates daily of services you are not delivering

Sorry, we can't find this page!

www.transdevbus.co.uk

36
Cancelled - Harrogate to Leeds 4.35pm
Leeds to Harrogate 5.15pm 5.45pm

These are peak hour services not running today from Leeds on their 'premier service'

 

[RustySpoons]

Better to publish a reduced timetable that you can provide drivers for than having to put out updates daily of services you are not delivering

Sorry, we can't find this page!

www.transdevbus.co.uk

36
Cancelled - Harrogate to Leeds 4.35pm
Leeds to Harrogate 5.15pm 5.45pm

These are peak hour services not running today from Leeds on their 'premier service'

I wonder if Transdev need to scale back a bit and concentrate on what they can run, rather than what they'd like to run. Give up tendered routes, let other operators run the smaller commercial services again and get back to doing what they do well.

Their seemingly endless recruitment drive obviously isn't working as things still haven't improved, even after taking on hundreds of new drivers and reducing timetables.

 

[Andyh82]

I’m surprised Transdev haven’t done a Platinum Jubilee bus as yet. It’s not like them to miss an opportunity, especially as lacklustre operators like Arriva have done some

 

[northernchris]

Their seemingly endless recruitment drive obviously isn't working as things still haven't improved, even after taking on hundreds of new drivers and reducing timetables.

Indeed, it makes you wonder if the problems are staff retention or they are just struggling to recruit. I thought by now the cancellations would have been reducing, but certainly at Keighley things are no better than they were last autumn, and Harrogate seem to cancel a high percentage of the short 36 workings suggesting they are also in a similar position.

 

[Ken H]

Indeed, it makes you wonder if the problems are staff retention or they are just struggling to recruit. I thought by now the cancellations would have been reducing, but certainly at Keighley things are no better than they were last autumn, and Harrogate seem to cancel a high percentage of the short 36 workings suggesting they are also in a similar position.

Have they got DVLA permission to do their own driver tests yet - i know that was stuck during Covid? Is there still a backlog of drivers awaiting a test?
I do know they have some retired drivers driving on odd days in Keighley and Harrogate. Spose it helps a bit...

 

[RustySpoons]

The electric Citaro is back in Harrogate. I recall Alex Hornby stating it's had a few battery upgrades so they've got it back to reevaluate it.

It's been doing a stint on the 7 into Leeds today. No idea if it's doing a full duty as a conventional diesel engined bus would or just doing a return journey before needing a recharge. If it's the latter then I'd say the tech isn't quite there yet!

---

Indeed, it makes you wonder if the problems are staff retention or they are just struggling to recruit. I thought by now the cancellations would have been reducing, but certainly at Keighley things are no better than they were last autumn, and Harrogate seem to cancel a high percentage of the short 36 workings suggesting they are also in a similar position.

It's a bit of both. As has been posted in the past the starting pay isn't exactly great, and there is a long ladder to climb before you get to an acceptable rate of pay... Then there's the ongoing (and more serious) issue of existing staff leaving as well as the new recruits jumping ship after a few months.

The level of services being dropped is still unacceptable and posting a daily list of dropped services seems to be the acceptable norm. It's a poor solution to something that shouldn't be happening.

And yes, I'm fully aware that Arriva, First, etc are also dropping services. But this is a Transdev thread and aside from First's 590/592 (which have never let me down) I've not had any experience with other operators.

 

[northernchris]

The level of services being dropped is still unacceptable and posting a daily list of dropped services seems to be the acceptable norm. It's a poor solution to something that shouldn't be happening.

And yes, I'm fully aware that Arriva, First, etc are also dropping services. But this is a Transdev thread and aside from First's 590/592 (which have never let me down) I've not had any experience with other operators.

Indeed, I've learnt that Saturdays are to be avoided on the 662 as there's frequent cancellations, with the buses left running usually busy and late. I do have some sympathy with Transdev as it isn't a problem of their making but they really need to improve the communication. First and Arriva usually manage to update the next bus display screens at bus stops of cancellations, Transdev are still hit and miss as to whether they bother, and even their app often shows info for journeys cancelled hours previously but nothing for current cancellations. And to add to the fun, Keighley have a nasty habit of leaving timing points early, so it can be difficult to work out if the bus has already gone, not running or still on its way

 

[RustySpoons]

There's another disappointing amount of journeys dropped in Burnley again today, including the last X43 back from Manchester. As the social media and service updates are apparently not run locally I'm sure there'll be even more dropped services that aren't announced.

Service Updates

To help you plan ahead and avoid disruption, we will be updating this page with any cancellations in advance. These cancellations are subject to change and may be reinstated so please check back before you travel. Don't forget, you can still track your bus in real time with live departures on the Transdev Go app

Saturday 4th June

5
Rose Grove to Harle Syke 10.30am 11.50am 1.10pm 2.30pm 3.50pm 5.10pm 6.30pm
Harle Syke to Rose Grove 11.10am 12.30pm 1.50pm 3.10pm 4.30pm 6pm

67
Clitheroe to Nelson 9.48am 1.48pm 5.23pm
Nelson to Clitheroe 6.30pm

66
Nelson to Clitheroe 12.15pm 4.15pm

68
Nelson to Colne 10.55am 2.55pm
Colne to Nelson 11.25am 3.35pm

X43
Burnley to Manchester 11.05am 2.05pm 5.10pm 9.10pm
Manchester to Burnley 9.35am 12.35pm 3.35pm 6.35pm 11.30pm

Also notice that at the time of posting the last journey time is apparently 11.30pm rather than 11pm. If you're going to massively inconvenience your passengers on a Saturday night at least proof read your posts and get the details right.

Is it time for more service reductions so they can get to a level of service they can actually run? Pointing people towards the app (which isn't the least bit helpful for spotting cancelled services) and offering to pay taxi fares to inconvenienced passengers is not an acceptable solution.

 

[158756]

There's another disappointing amount of journeys dropped in Burnley again today, including the last X43 back from Manchester. As the social media and service updates are apparently not run locally I'm sure there'll be even more dropped services that aren't announced.

Service Updates

Also notice that at the time of posting the last journey time is apparently 11.30pm rather than 11pm. If you're going to massively inconvenience your passengers on a Saturday night at least proof read your posts and get the details right.

Is it time for more service reductions so they can get to a level of service they can actually run? Pointing people towards the app (which isn't the least bit helpful for spotting cancelled services) and offering to pay taxi fares to inconvenienced passengers is not an acceptable solution.

What do you cut though? There are no frequent services - the short Mainline journeys are already gone outside the peaks, nothing else operates at better than 20 minute intervals. Any further cuts on top of those already implemented will make what remains much less appealing to customers (especially those who actually pay), getting into the realms of just giving up and acknowledging that part of the business is gone. The X43 does seem to be among the favourites for cancellations, but throwing the towel in on that would be a big decision.

 

[asw22]

Indeed, I've learnt that Saturdays are to be avoided on the 662 as there's frequent cancellations, with the buses left running usually busy and late. I do have some sympathy with Transdev as it isn't a problem of their making but they really need to improve the communication. First and Arriva usually manage to update the next bus display screens at bus stops of cancellations, Transdev are still hit and miss as to whether they bother, and even their app often shows info for journeys cancelled hours previously but nothing for current cancellations. And to add to the fun, Keighley have a nasty habit of leaving timing points early, so it can be difficult to work out if the bus has already gone, not running or still on its way

The 662 (and its predecessors 662 to 669 in the 1990s) experiences varying levels of traffic congestion. When I used to catch this route in the 1990s and early 2010s, there could often be gaps of 20 to 30 minutes at times in the 1990s (in the 10 minute frequency). The bypass being opened and some bus lanes has helped but parts of the route still seem to suffer from congestion particularly around Saltaire and Manningham Lane on a bad day.

Having said that, I struggle to think of ever being delayed by more than 30 minutes when using their buses. My experience of using First Leeds buses (2010 to 2020) and Northern (2002 to present) is different however, where on several occasions I have been delayed by 60+ minutes due to either breakdowns, cancellations and no-shows.

 

[northernchris]

The 662 (and its predecessors 662 to 669 in the 1990s) experiences varying levels of traffic congestion. When I used to catch this route in the 1990s and early 2010s, there could often be gaps of 20 to 30 minutes at times in the 1990s (in the 10 minute frequency). The bypass being opened and some bus lanes has helped but parts of the route still seem to suffer from congestion particularly around Saltaire and Manningham Lane on a bad day.

Having said that, I struggle to think of ever being delayed by more than 30 minutes when using their buses. My experience of using First Leeds buses (2010 to 2020) and Northern (2002 to present) is different however, where on several occasions I have been delayed by 60+ minutes due to either breakdowns, cancellations and no-shows.

The 662 does have its fair share of congestion, especially with the various schools along the route, but it doesn't excuse the high level of cancellations or Transdev's failure to communicate. This afternoon they were 2 662 boards not running, along with a bus missing on the K7 and K9, yet the app and website were showing no disruptions.

First Leeds and Northern are far from perfect, but they don't market themselves as amazing, and don't seem to have some of their top management using social media to criticise others for issues themselves are guilty of. Transdev do well at vehicle presentation (Shuttles aside as they look quite grubby now) but their service delivery and customer service doesn't live up to the hype.

 

[adh144004]

Transdev (Keighley Bus Company) are currently running the MB eCitaro demonstrator on the 662 Shuttle between Keighley and Bradford. Is this route expected to switch to an electric fleet in the (near) future?

 

[asw22]

Transdev (Keighley Bus Company) are currently running the MB eCitaro demonstrator on the 662 Shuttle between Keighley and Bradford. Is this route expected to switch to an electric fleet in the (near) future?

Yes, part pf the ZEBRA funding - page 11 of the attached suggests 662 + the airport services A1, A2 and A3

https://www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/media/8305/zebra-fbc-redacted.pdf

Harrogate should also get ZEBRA vehicles for the 36 and 7.

 

[LancasterRed]

Sadly you'll just have to take my word for it but Transdev are out training in Fylde today. I didn't realise it was them until it was long gone