Transdev Blazefield

[Ashly_Jethro]

Quite.

Serving Whitby must, for all operators, be an utter pain in the ar*e. The, er, taxing, terrain from all sides mean that the buses must get absolutely hammered on the long-distance routes, and let's be honest - there's little traffic other than Goathland and perhaps Ruswarp/Sleights on the 840 before Thornton-le-Dale/Pickering, and the X93 both toward Scarborough and Middlesbrough have similarly few regular stops (I've been on more than one X93 that hasn't stopped between the edges of Scarborough and Robin Hood's Bay).

As a result, the costs of running the routes must be high, and thus the profitability low. Didn't NYCC once partially support existing journeys on the 840? Obviously with that council barely interested in supporting public transport, I'm not surprised the 840 runs at a pretty much minimal level. At least they are 'deckers on the route these days - in the latter days of the B10BLEs/B7RLEs (prior to the route change at Goathland), I remember at least one journey with standees across the moors!

The 843 is, and always has been, the goldmine for Coastliner. Let's just hope that a good summer this year allows more investment in future years.

Well said, it’s a shame some councils seem to have less interest in public transport than others...

I hadn’t thought about the benefits in regards to future investment. It could prove to be interesting indeed.

 

[SCH117X]

2 return workings on a Sunday to connect with Dalesbus would be a good next step. Possibilities at Blubberhouses for the Keighley - Otley - Pateley Bridge (if it ever restarts), at Bolton Abbey and at Skipton.

Doubt there would ever be a connection advertised at Blubberhouses due to the lack of safe crossing points/space for passengers on pretty fast section of the A59. It could probably be done by diverting the 59 off the A59 before westbound services reach Blubberhouses and arrive their from the north so that the services could safely connect somewhere to the north of Blubberhouses (and via versa) with a consequential journey time penalty.

 

[JRT]

Point taken and a good one. I just think there are ways around it. Maybe have a Keighley bus running an X40,and start it from Bradford?

Years ago, Blazefield did run an 841 Keighley–Bradford–Bridlington–Scarborough once a week on summer Saturdays.

 

[bobslack1982]

Years ago, Blazefield did run an 841 Keighley–Bradford–Bridlington–Scarborough once a week on summer Saturdays.

3 hours 45 minutes it took.

 

[Andyh82]

Some tight timings there even for 2001 and that’s even before you factor in time for people to actually pay and board. Keighley to Bingley in just 5 minutes, Bradford to Leeds in 20 mins, at that time of day Filey to Scarborough would probably be heavily congested as well.

 

[johntea]

I've never really understood the appeal of Coastliner myself, over 3 hours Leeds to Scarborough compared to half that on the train (which of course has no varying traffic to worry about!)

Cost savings perhaps, but I would rather pay the extra for the time savings (and if I knew exactly when I was travelling I'm sure advance tickets would bring the journey price roughly in line)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've never really understood the appeal of Coastliner myself, over 3 hours Leeds to Scarborough compared to half that on the train (which of course has no varying traffic to worry about!)

Cost savings perhaps, but I would rather pay the extra for the time savings (and if I knew exactly when I was travelling I'm sure advance tickets would bring the journey price roughly in line)

A lot of people do use the train but what use is the train if you live in Seacroft? Or Tadcaster? Or large parts of York? There’s more to Coastliner than Leeds to Scarborough end to end trips

 

[bobslack1982]

Some tight timings there even for 2001 and that’s even before you factor in time for people to actually pay and board. Keighley to Bingley in just 5 minutes, Bradford to Leeds in 20 mins, at that time of day Filey to Scarborough would probably be heavily congested as well.

Those times are all on a Saturday morning though so I suspect traffic won’t have been much of an issue?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Those times are all on a Saturday morning though so I suspect traffic won’t have been much of an issue?

It's still 4 miles from Keighley to Bingley so that's quite a fast average speed!

 

[Fisherman80]

3 hours 45 minutes it took.

2 hours and 15 minutes between Bradford and Bridlington looks a decent timing!
It may seem I'm moaning about everything Transdev but I'm not. The quality of the vehicles are way superior compared to my local First Bradford buses.

 

[Deerfold]

It's still 4 miles from Keighley to Bingley so that's quite a fast average speed!

And it's timed at 15 minutes in the other direction.

I wonder if it was meant to make sure anyone wanting it was at the stop in plenty of time?

 

[JetBlast]

Is there any news on the new Rochdale Rosso depot?

 

[RustySpoons]

I sense an issue with the new Mellors with both boarding and alighting at Burnley Bus Station. I'd say there may be a similar issue at Nelson too which has the same sort of layout.



The 'bottom' Stand 9 at Burnley Bus Station has a slightly longer platform, but as it's shared across two bays there'll still be issues if the bottom one is in use.

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

I sense an issue with the new Mellors with both boarding and alighting at Burnley Bus Station. I'd say there may be a similar issue at Nelson too which has the same sort of layout.

View attachment 95321

The 'bottom' Stand 9 at Burnley Bus Station has a slightly longer platform, but as it's shared across two bays there'll still be issues if the bottom one is in use.

Oh dear oh dear. I normally shrug off things like this and say it'll be reyt, but this is quite bad. No chance for wheelchair users to board and even able bodied passengers will stuggle, especially if there's a bus on the next stand.

 

[GusB]

Oh dear oh dear. I normally shrug off things like this and say it'll be reyt, but this is quite bad. No chance for wheelchair users to board and even able bodied passengers will stuggle, especially if there's a bus on the next stand.

I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist if I were you. There's enough room at the front of the bus for it to pull forward enough that the door is aligned with the kerb.

 

[Man of Kent]

I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist if I were you. There's enough room at the front of the bus for it to pull forward enough that the door is aligned with the kerb.

Unfortunately the view from the driving seat says there isn't. It is becoming a common problem at an increasing number of bus stations, which were not designed with such buses in mind. I've not encountered a Mellor, but the door on a smaller 17 seat Sprinter converted by EVM is 2m from the front of the bus, with a door opening of 1.3m. The stand is typically 3.1m long, and drivers generally stop 0.3m to 0.6m from the front of the stand, reducing the available length to less than 2.8m, hence resulting in the situation illustrated here. (The measurements were obtained while advising on the design of a new bus station).

 

[SCH117X]

A potential solution at Burnley would be change to using one of the on street bus layby stops adjacent .

 

[Roilshead]

Potential solution at Burnley would be change to using one of the on street bus layby stops adjacent .

Or just for drivers to line up the rear of the door with the edge of the adjacent bay, agreed it looks tight and there wouldn't be much room for error so would have to be done at a creepl.

 

[Andyh82]

Potential solution at Burnley would be change to using one of the on street bus layby stops adjacent .

They could very slightly rebuild the stand if it really is an issue These services only use two bays, it wouldn’t be the biggest job in the world to move a few barriers and put down a few block paving bricks

 

[Fisherman80]

Unfortunately the view from the driving seat says there isn't. It is becoming a common problem at an increasing number of bus stations, which were not designed with such buses in mind. I've not encountered a Mellor, but the door on a smaller 17 seat Sprinter converted by EVM is 2m from the front of the bus, with a door opening of 1.3m. The stand is typically 3.1m long, and drivers generally stop 0.3m to 0.6m from the front of the stand, reducing the available length to less than 2.8m, hence resulting in the situation illustrated here. (The measurements were obtained while advising on the design of a new bus station).

Does the same problem exist at Keighley bus station?

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist if I were you. There's enough room at the front of the bus for it to pull forward enough that the door is aligned with the kerb.

It really doesn't look like there is, especially to easily get an electric wheelchair on board.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

They could very slightly rebuild the stand if it really is an issue These services only use two bays, it wouldn’t be the biggest job in the world to move a few barriers and put down a few block paving bricks

That’s a fair point. Besides, Burnley station could do with a bit of TLC, especially in the toilets… They could re-pave to match the CharterWalk and extend the bottom 2 stands at the same time. And let’s not forget the neglected tower clock…

 

[RustySpoons]

I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist if I were you. There's enough room at the front of the bus for it to pull forward enough that the door is aligned with the kerb.

I think even if the bus is as close to the front barrier as possible it'd still be tricky to get a wheelchair lined up and on the bus.

If it's something that's only come to light since they've been delivered then it's a pretty shocking oversight. You'd have hoped they'd have used a demo bus or one of the Keighley Jets that have been spotted buzzing around over the last couple of months to make sure they'd fit in the bus station and make the stand modifications before they entered service. As it is it isn't really fit for purpose as it'll only fit on one bay at Burnley, and if that bay is being used (there's two bays to each stand) then it'll be awkward for even able bodied passengers to get on and off, as per the picture.

Getting drivers to practically kiss the barrier with the front of the bus is just asking for trouble. Unlike a regular bus where the driver pretty much sits over the front bumper the Mercs are essentially vans, it's very difficult to judge where the front of the bonnet it.

 

[Dusty_Bin]

I think even if the bus is as close to the front barrier as possible it'd still be tricky to get a wheelchair lined up and on the bus.

If it's something that's only come to light since they've been delivered then it's a pretty shocking oversight. You'd have hoped they'd have used a demo bus or one of the Keighley Jets that have been spotted buzzing around over the last couple of months to make sure they'd fit in the bus station and make the stand modifications before they entered service. As it is it isn't really fit for purpose as it'll only fit on one bay at Burnley, and if that bay is being used (there's two bays to each stand) then it'll be awkward for even able bodied passengers to get on and off, as per the picture.

Getting drivers to practically kiss the barrier with the front of the bus is just asking for trouble. Unlike a regular bus where the driver pretty much sits over the front bumper the Mercs are essentially vans, it's very difficult to judge where the front of the bonnet it.

It’s not an oversight, it’s a flaw with the design of the bus station and has been raised with Lancashire County Council who are responsible. The operators pay departure fees to use the facility, it is for the local authority to ensure the station is accessible.

 

[RustySpoons]

It’s not an oversight, it’s a flaw with the design of the bus station and has been raised with Lancashire County Council who are responsible. The operators pay departure fees to use the facility, it is for the local authority to ensure the station is accessible.

It's an interesting one. When the bus station was built buses of this type didn't even exist. Pretty much every bus had the door in front of the front wheels, and even the breadvans that were buzzing around had the doors pretty much right behind the front axle.

20 years ago no one will have forseen the design on the Mellor Strata so it won't have been taken into consideration. Indeed, if it wasn't for Transdev going for the Mellors it still wouldn't have been a problem. So should Transdev help fund the work needed they've chosen the Mellors over a more conventional minibus, or should the council because a bus they've specified for their services doesn't 'fit' on their bus stands. Or should they both fund the work?

If it's the council you'd think they'd have cottoned on when Pilkingtons and Preston Bus got similar vehicles and 'future proofed' the bus stations... Although this is LCC we're talking about...

 

[JetBlast]

It's an interesting one. When the bus station was built buses of this type didn't even exist. Pretty much every bus had the door in front of the front wheels, and even the breadvans that were buzzing around had the doors pretty much right behind the front axle.

20 years ago no one will have forseen the design on the Mellor Strata so it won't have been taken into consideration. Indeed, if it wasn't for Transdev going for the Mellors it still wouldn't have been a problem. So should Transdev help fund the work needed they've chosen the Mellors over a more conventional minibus, or should the council because a bus they've specified for their services doesn't 'fit' on their bus stands. Or should they both fund the work?

If it's the council you'd think they'd have cottoned on when Pilkingtons and Preston Bus got similar vehicles and 'future proofed' the bus stations... Although this is LCC we're talking about...

If Transdev pay to use the station they shouldn’t pay for any costs.

You wouldn’t expect to personally contribute to a modification of a car park so your car can fit.

 

[markymark2000]

If Transdev pay to use the station they shouldn’t pay for any costs.

You wouldn’t expect to personally contribute to a modification of a car park so your car can fit.

There are pros and cons to this thought process though. While Transdev shouldn't have to pay for the cost of amendments, it is in their best interests so as quite simply, the council could just ban the buses from the bus station (as I believe Merseytravel and TFGM have done for dual door buses because they aren't suitable for the bus stations). This would maybe mean reduced usage and it would reflect badly on both Transdev and the council for not having all the buses in the bus station.

When all said and done, Transdev shouldn't have ordered buses which may not fit into the bus station. The only defence for this is if the council specified the buses to be used.

With all that in mind, I would say the cost should be halved. The council isn't at fault but they do manage the facility. Transdev are at fault but it would reflect very badly on them if the buses had to run from elsewhere in the towns and not link up to the rest of their network.



As for your final comment, it depends. If you can't fit your car into a car park, you simply don't park there. If there was no where else to park though and if it was the only car park close by and/or it would be hugely beneficial to you (perhaps saving you time, money or general resources elsewhere), you may be willing to put some money to make your life easier and as it is a specific 'you' problem and if you want a resolution, you should be liable to pay for at least some part of it. Here, there are commercial benefits to Transdev to keep the buses together.
I've seen it happen in my home town where Arriva run very close to the bus station but for a long time, many distance routes passed by and didn't stop so Arriva could save on the fees). This ended up with people being forced to walk about 15 minutes to the closest usable bus stop and it put a lot of people off travelling on their buses because of the walk. Those who used the buses did so because they had to, not generally through choice. If Transdev want to grow patronage, the way to do that is keeping buses in an interchange and so with the commercial benefits to them, I think 1/2 and 1/2 would be the best compromise.

 

[JetBlast]

I see your point but surely part of running a service is to adapt and improve? I can't think of any business (I know a bus station isn't a business as such) that has survived without adapting to customer demand and evolve.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

Plans have been made to extend all the stands at Nelson and for adaptations to be made to stand 9 at Burnley

 

[gc4946]

A lot of people do use the train but what use is the train if you live in Seacroft? Or Tadcaster? Or large parts of York? There’s more to Coastliner than Leeds to Scarborough end to end trips

Travelling on Coastliner from locations along York Road in Leeds to/from York works out about the same time compared with the train because the buses go right into the centre of York.