Transfer of LNER HST 125s to East Midlands Railway (EMR)

[heedfan]

Looks like they have finished now as today 4 red sets are out and a 222 on one diagram.

Can confirm this. Stood down at NL awaiting scrap.

 

[WesternLancer]

Looks like they have finished now as today 4 red sets are out and a 222 on one diagram.

Thanks for update.

Can confirm this. Stood down at NL awaiting scrap.

Sad to hear that, but unsurprising I guess.

 

[spotify95]

Can confirm this. Stood down at NL awaiting scrap.

Sorry to hear this. I'll miss riding these: I always used to get the 07:54 departure from Wellingborough to Leicester (don't know what headcode that would have been) as it was the only HST that stopped at Wellingborough. The HST are superior to the Meridians in comfort and usability; I managed to get a strong 4G connection without a problem in a HST. The same cannot be said for the Meridians and their on board Wi-Fi is abysmal.

Do you know if these HST coaches are going to be bought up and preserved, or whether they will definitely be going to scrap? If the latter, is it possible to obtain parts from their interior, or do they have a complete destruction order on them, prohibiting the reuse of any component?

 

[heedfan]

Do you know if these HST coaches are going to be bought up and preserved, or whether they will definitely be going to scrap? If the latter, is it possible to obtain parts from their interior, or do they have a complete destruction order on them, prohibiting the reuse of any component?

I'm not sure of their exact fate but the majority of the old 'blue' HST coaches from NL have gone straight for scrap.

There will likely be a spare parts market for some of the components but whether this is open to the public I don't know.

 

[43096]

Do you know if these HST coaches are going to be bought up and preserved, or whether they will definitely be going to scrap? If the latter, is it possible to obtain parts from their interior, or do they have a complete destruction order on them, prohibiting the reuse of any component?

125 Group has already acquired three trailers from set NL01 for preservation, with a further three from NL03 to follow.

I’ve no idea if there’s a destruction order on the rest of them, but if they go to Newport for disposal it’s unlikely anything would be salvageable: Sims process them very quickly (within days). More chance if they go to Booths in Rotherham, where trailers have had components recovered (e.g. WSP equipment).

 

[WesternLancer]

Sorry to hear this. I'll miss riding these: I always used to get the 07:54 departure from Wellingborough to Leicester (don't know what headcode that would have been) as it was the only HST that stopped at Wellingborough. The HST are superior to the Meridians in comfort and usability; I managed to get a strong 4G connection without a problem in a HST. The same cannot be said for the Meridians and their on board Wi-Fi is abysmal.

Do you know if these HST coaches are going to be bought up and preserved, or whether they will definitely be going to scrap? If the latter, is it possible to obtain parts from their interior, or do they have a complete destruction order on them, prohibiting the reuse of any component?

You might think there would be a good niche market for IC70 1st class seats to have in your living room / conservatory....
If only for the days of Collectors Corner!

 

[oversteer]

I’ve been fixing up my old Hornby “Intercity” HST set that’s been in a box for 30 years - so the kids could play with it, honest - thought I’d take a look to see where its power cars 43072 and 43051 ended up.

Seems like they are now 43272 and 43251 and relevant to this thread.

Are they still in service or were they just recently withdrawn?

 

[43055]

I’ve been fixing up my old Hornby “Intercity” HST set that’s been in a box for 30 years - so the kids could play with it, honest - thought I’d take a look to see where its power cars 43072 and 43051 ended up.

Seems like they are now 43272 and 43251 and relevant to this thread.

Are they still in service or were they just recently withdrawn?

251 and 272 are still in service.

 

[midland1]

Got a photo of 272 today!

 

[_toommm_]

I believe it’s doing the 18:34 STP to LDS tonight.

 

[oversteer]

Got a photo of 272 today!

So did I

 

[fgwrich]

I’ve been fixing up my old Hornby “Intercity” HST set that’s been in a box for 30 years - so the kids could play with it, honest - thought I’d take a look to see where its power cars 43072 and 43051 ended up.

Seems like they are now 43272 and 43251 and relevant to this thread.

Are they still in service or were they just recently withdrawn?

Luckily for you, 43272 & 274 have rather gone full circle, being ex Midland Mainline power cars, refurbished by East Coast and fitted with MTU engines for East Coast duties, and have since found their way back to the Midland again (somewhat ironically outlasting their former MML colleagues for the next few months).

 

[DB]

Luckily for you, 43272 & 274 have rather gone full circle, being ex Midland Mainline power cars, refurbished by East Coast and fitted with MTU engines for East Coast duties, and have since found their way back to the Midland again (somewhat ironically outlasting their former MML colleagues for the next few months).

They remained on the Midland until EMT days - 43072 received the full EMR livery, and had the branding changed to East Coast when it moved, but it didn't last long before an engine failure, and it was then taken to Loughborough for MTU fitment and repaint. 43074 was still in MML blue livery when it transferred, and remained in use like that for some time (so far as I recall it was the last power car in that livery), before going to Loughborough for engine change and repaint.

Both power cars are still easily identifiable as they retain the MML-style 3-aspect light clusters, rather than the two-aspect ones fitted by all other operators.

 

[spotify95]

You might think there would be a good niche market for IC70 1st class seats to have in your living room / conservatory....
If only for the days of Collectors Corner!

I didn't think the IC70 Standard Class seats were that bad either (I can't afford 1st), especially the ones with the large tables. There probably would be a good market for secondhand train seating.
There's too much wastage nowadays, we should all be up for reusing whatever we can. The Blue Mk3s from EMT were also recently fitted with LEDs in the vestibule ends - too good to scrap!

 

[fgwrich]

I didn't think the IC70 Standard Class seats were that bad either (I can't afford 1st), especially the ones with the large tables. There probably would be a good market for secondhand train seating.
There's too much wastage nowadays, we should all be up for reusing whatever we can. The Blue Mk3s from EMT were also recently fitted with LEDs in the vestibule ends - too good to scrap!

I fully agree and it's something I find rather frustrating about the Rail Industry. Bizarrely, as the London Transport Museum & TfL have shown, there is a market for reconditioned former railway items, with their Moquette and A Stock Luggage Rack's being some of their best sellers. Aside from a new collectors corner aimed at rail enthusiasts, I to feel people would pay good money for an IC70, or FGW First Class Table etc (I have one, it's more Designer Table than it's ever been!). If the air industry can cut plaines into parts and sell windows panels off, I don't see why the Railways couldn't!

And yes, veering even more off topic, it's one reason why I find it sad seeing the ex FGW / GWR FC Vehicles sent for scrap. That wonderful First Class, thrown in the bin, at less than 3 years old.

 

[DB]

And yes, veering even more off topic, it's one reason why I find it sad seeing the ex FGW / GWR FC Vehicles sent for scrap. That wonderful First Class, thrown in the bin, at less than 3 years old.

A good number of parts of the GWR first-class interiors have appeared on ebay in the past year - various sellers, but in particular there's a bloke in London who appears to buy vanloads of bits from the scrappies.

 

[fgwrich]

A good number of parts of the GWR first-class interiors have appeared on ebay in the past year - various sellers, but in particular there's a bloke in London who appears to buy vanloads of bits from the scrappies.

Indeed, I might have had a few bits from him to up-cycle. Though unfortunately there's a few other internal bit's I would have had. But it's not just the GW HSTs, There's the LNER ones, EMR ones, Ex GC vehicles, Greater Anglia 317s etc all scrapped in the past year. All could yield bits and pieces - There can't be any scrap value in a Chapman Seat, or that much in a IC70 for example (though the bases do have an annoying chunk of metal underneath).

As for the EMT / EMR interiors - Not being a fan of the IC70s, I wouldn't take one except for those ex GC TFs - They were absolutely wonderful!

 

[WesternLancer]

I didn't think the IC70 Standard Class seats were that bad either (I can't afford 1st), especially the ones with the large tables. There probably would be a good market for secondhand train seating.
There's too much wastage nowadays, we should all be up for reusing whatever we can. The Blue Mk3s from EMT were also recently fitted with LEDs in the vestibule ends - too good to scrap!

I quite agree with you ref Std seat too.

And of course for many years MML/EMT weekend 1st upgrade stayed, IIRC, £6, so you could have splashed out on a special occasion! £12 now which is not bad and if you get the time right you could go all the way to / from Leeds for that....

 

[Domh245]

As for the EMT / EMR interiors - Not being a fan of the IC70s, I wouldn't take one except for those ex GC TFs - They were absolutely wonderful!

Whilst the normal IC70s were absolutely terrible as a train seat, I think they'd make quite a good standalone chair - although yes the ex GC TF seats with the more moulded cushions would be nicer still!

 

[WesternLancer]

I wonder if the timetable cuts being reported on the BBC will result in service reductions on MML that will render the HSTs surplus very soon indeed?

If this current lock down goes to March as seems to be expected, and the trains were due out of service in May anyway, they presumably only need to adjust the timetable and then retain that until May planned timetable changes anyway (which I would think would be likely although post vaccination traffic levels - esp for leisure - would seem hard to predict right now)

I rather imagine many routes with 30 minutes or higher frequencies could manage with half of the services taken out - eg EMT Nottingham trains operate with only hourly stoppers using 222s only for example.

 

[DDB]

How long are they expected to need the Class 180s for is it until the new trains are delivered? Maybe they will keep the HSTs in service until May as allowed, to buy the depot more time to give the 180s a thorough going over?

 

[WesternLancer]

How long are they expected to need the Class 180s for is it until the new trains are delivered? Maybe they will keep the HSTs in service until May as allowed, to buy the depot more time to give the 180s a thorough going over?

What you mean those 180s still not in full and fine fettle....

But yes, I think the idea was that when the 800s come in 2022 or 23 all the 222 and 180s would then go - ie a complete new Inter City bi-mode fleet (the HSTs having already gone in May 2021 - a delay from the intended Dec 2020 end for HSTs)

 

[Flashbangwhirl]

Any idea which HST power cars still remain active and in service with EMR as of this week please.

 

[WesternLancer]

Any idea which HST power cars still remain active and in service with EMR as of this week please.

Post #869 is prob a good start for a list

 

[Flashbangwhirl]

Thanks, greatly appreciated.

 

[DannyMich2018]

I wonder if the timetable cuts being reported on the BBC will result in service reductions on MML that will render the HSTs surplus very soon indeed?

If this current lock down goes to March as seems to be expected, and the trains were due out of service in May anyway, they presumably only need to adjust the timetable and then retain that until May planned timetable changes anyway (which I would think would be likely although post vaccination traffic levels - esp for leisure - would seem hard to predict right now)

I rather imagine many routes with 30 minutes or higher frequencies could manage with half of the services taken out - eg EMT Nottingham trains operate with only hourly stoppers using 222s only for example.

Yes as reported elsewhere talks of 50-60% cuts on many routes due to "Lockdown 3". It's pointless running nearly empty trains, wasting fuel and staff resources when a much reduced service can run just as well. When EMR moves to a reduced timetable and the 180s work better could easily remove the last few HSTs.

 

[43055]

I wonder if the timetable cuts being reported on the BBC will result in service reductions on MML that will render the HSTs surplus very soon indeed?

If this current lock down goes to March as seems to be expected, and the trains were due out of service in May anyway, they presumably only need to adjust the timetable and then retain that until May planned timetable changes anyway (which I would think would be likely although post vaccination traffic levels - esp for leisure - would seem hard to predict right now)

I rather imagine many routes with 30 minutes or higher frequencies could manage with half of the services taken out - eg EMT Nottingham trains operate with only hourly stoppers using 222s only for example.

Yes as reported elsewhere talks of 50-60% cuts on many routes due to "Lockdown 3". It's pointless running nearly empty trains, wasting fuel and staff resources when a much reduced service can run just as well. When EMR moves to a reduced timetable and the 180s work better could easily remove the last few HSTs.

It probably depends on if EMR will continue to Leeds in the reduced timetable and if there is any intention to return to the current timetable before May. Last year they continued with 1st service a day to/from Leeds to keep rotating the HSTs between Leeds, Derby and London on a 3 day cycle.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes as reported elsewhere talks of 50-60% cuts on many routes due to "Lockdown 3". It's pointless running nearly empty trains, wasting fuel and staff resources when a much reduced service can run just as well. When EMR moves to a reduced timetable and the 180s work better could easily remove the last few HSTs.

Staff might actually be better protected running trains than in the mess room... the cost won’t be any different.

 

[43096]

Staff might actually be better protected running trains than in the mess room... the cost won’t be any different.

And taxpayers would be better protected if some staff were furloughed.

 

[bramling]

And taxpayers would be better protected if some staff were furloughed.

Surely that’s simply moving cost from one place to another?

At least with the current situation the industry is well placed for the passenger resurgence which will happen (it’s a case of to what extent rather than whether it happens).

Staff might actually be better protected running trains than in the mess room... the cost won’t be any different.

This is what makes me think any ramp-down is being a little over played. There isn’t a massive cost saving in not running the trains. Staff availability is another matter of course, and that would certainly inform any cuts. I’m amazed the various operators are doing as well as they are in that regard to be honest.