The big driver for NPR is indeed city-to-city journey times rather than capacity (the opposite of HS2 where reduced journey times are merely a side-effect of a capacity-driven scheme); the capacity uplift provided by NPR is far in excess of what is really required (which could to a large extent probably be solved simply by lengthening existing trains on the existing route).
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Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates
- Thread starter GRALISTAIR
- Start date
The big driver for NPR is indeed city-to-city journey times rather than capacity (the opposite of HS2 where reduced journey times are merely a side-effect of a capacity-driven scheme); the capacity uplift provided by NPR is far in excess of what is really required (which could to a large extent probably be solved simply by lengthening existing trains on the existing route).
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R
RailUK Forums
I think it's two decisions that have to be taken together if there's to be any hope of future-proofing (which is not something we are very good at). If the decision is to build NPR within a reasonable timescale (whether via Bradford or not), then the future role for the Huddersfield route (and Calder Valley, come to that) is as an inter-urban line and a freight carrier, as the need for high-speed transits between Manchester and Leeds (as part of a fast route across country from Liverpool to Newastle and Hull) will be fully catered for by NPR. Modernisation of the Huddersfield line for both speed and capacity can then be adjusted accordingly. But if NPR is not to be built, or is just something for 30 or 40 years ahead, then the Huddersfield line will need to be the fast route between Manchester and Leeds as well as an inter-urban route with some freight (assuming most of that could run via the Calder Valley). That would mean a much more extensive and expensive upgrading of the Huddersfield line. What would be daft would be to decide on only a limited improvement of the Hudderfield line and then shortly afterwards decide on no NPR (or to spend a huge amount on the Huddersfield route and then within the next five years decide to build NPR). But I suspect that's what is most likely to happen.
Purple Orange
On Moderation
We’re probably 15 years away from a new stretch of line opening between Leeds & Manchester. I reckon we will have a decision that backs NPR, but it will be a partial new build through east Manchester rather than a completely new line, sequenced with the opening of the Manchester HS2 station.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
I assume we may hear something Wednesday in the Budget?
Purple Orange
On Moderation
Hopefully. Yet that would also mean the Integrated Rail Plan would also need to be published too.
59CosG95
Established Member
After a substantial fallow period, the Progressometer is back - albeit only for the East side now! There will be a "West" & "Central" part for each division of the work - "East" covers Leeds to York, "Central" covers Standedge - Huddersfield - Leeds, and West covers Man Vic - Stalybridge - Standedge.
TransPennine Wiring East Progressometer Post 1.1 - accurate to 01/03/21, updated 02/03.
Route announced as 'to be wired' in CP6: Church Fenton - Colton Jct.
All mileages from Manchester Victoria unless stated otherwise. Bridge mileages are approximated where noted.
1. Neville Hill East Jct (HUL4 18m 25ch) to Micklefield Jct (HUL4 10m 64ch; CFM 15m 63ch) - TBC. Expected to be electrified.
2. Micklefield Jct (HUL4 10m 64ch; CFM 15m 63ch) to Church Fenton North Jct (NOC/CFM 10m 36ch) - TBC. Expected to be electrified.
3. Church Fenton North Jct (NOC/CFM 10m 36ch) to Colton Jct (NOC 5m 41ch/ECM4 182m 79ch)
Electrification work underway.
Southern limit of OLE confirmed to be short of Church Fenton Stn itself due to
a) HS2 Phase 2b works; and
b) the Common Ln Underbridge/Rose Lane UWC situation (i.e. "Steventon with S&C")
With completion scheduled for October 2022; steelwork up in May 2021 & wires up in Jan 2022.
S1 Monobooms up over Colton S ladder. 8 S1 TTCs (3 boomed) and a UKMS Std portal also up; TTCs only up over the Normanton lines at present.
4 S1 TTCs up (3 boomed) on the Normanton side south of Colton Ln O/B. A lone S1 Monoboom leg is up on the Leeds side, presumably awaiting its comrade & boom. No steelwork south of Bolton Percy as of yet.
All piles presumed installed - Further contingency shifts have been booked due to poor weather precluding final piling work at Church Fenton, Ulleskelf & Bolton Percy. These are on the 27th of Feb (done) & the 6th of March.
Track Sectioning Cabin to be built in Church Fenton.
Compounds established at:
Church Fenton;
Ulleskelf;
Bolton Percy (Oxton Lane);
Braegate Lane;
Earfit (Eartfitts?) Lane;
Copmanthorpe (Moor Lane);
Tadcaster Road, Copmanthorpe (by A64); and Dringhouses (Model Railway).
(N.B. All dates are subject to alteration, whether due to COVID-19 or otherwise)
Do let me know if I've missed anything!
TransPennine Wiring East Progressometer Post 1.1 - accurate to 01/03/21, updated 02/03.
Route announced as 'to be wired' in CP6: Church Fenton - Colton Jct.
All mileages from Manchester Victoria unless stated otherwise. Bridge mileages are approximated where noted.
1. Neville Hill East Jct (HUL4 18m 25ch) to Micklefield Jct (HUL4 10m 64ch; CFM 15m 63ch) - TBC. Expected to be electrified.
2. Micklefield Jct (HUL4 10m 64ch; CFM 15m 63ch) to Church Fenton North Jct (NOC/CFM 10m 36ch) - TBC. Expected to be electrified.
3. Church Fenton North Jct (NOC/CFM 10m 36ch) to Colton Jct (NOC 5m 41ch/ECM4 182m 79ch)
Electrification work underway.
Southern limit of OLE confirmed to be short of Church Fenton Stn itself due to
a) HS2 Phase 2b works; and
b) the Common Ln Underbridge/Rose Lane UWC situation (i.e. "Steventon with S&C")
With completion scheduled for October 2022; steelwork up in May 2021 & wires up in Jan 2022.
S1 Monobooms up over Colton S ladder. 8 S1 TTCs (3 boomed) and a UKMS Std portal also up; TTCs only up over the Normanton lines at present.
4 S1 TTCs up (3 boomed) on the Normanton side south of Colton Ln O/B. A lone S1 Monoboom leg is up on the Leeds side, presumably awaiting its comrade & boom. No steelwork south of Bolton Percy as of yet.
Track Sectioning Cabin to be built in Church Fenton.
Compounds established at:
Church Fenton;
Ulleskelf;
Bolton Percy (Oxton Lane);
Braegate Lane;
Earfit (Eartfitts?) Lane;
Copmanthorpe (Moor Lane);
Tadcaster Road, Copmanthorpe (by A64); and Dringhouses (Model Railway).
(N.B. All dates are subject to alteration, whether due to COVID-19 or otherwise)
Do let me know if I've missed anything!
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All piles presumed installed.
Excellent update thanks, with regard to piling being complete, there are two piles sat on their side in the space between the Normanton lines where the platforms of Bolton Percy station were located. Also when I last looked there were no piles in the area of the platforms at Ulleskelf Station. Can they use a triple cantilever from the west side of the line to cover both Leeds and the Down Normanton?
quantinghome
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Jun 2013
- Messages
- 2,264
It depends what capacity we're talking about. Sure, we could nearly double intercity capacity by lengthening transpennine trains from 5 to 9 cars, but this would do nothing for local services. The Huddersfield line has great local commuter potential - better than the Airedale and Wharfedale lines. But you can't run Metro-level frequencies (4tph) on the stoppers without putting the long distance trains... somewhere else... Some may argue that 4-tracking all the way between Leeds and Manchester would work, but then you may as well build a new line.
Anyway, if the purpose is to create a massive travel to work area along the M62 corridor then how do you know what is really required in terms of capacity? NPR is aiming to produce a revolution in travel patterns in the same way the M62 did. Imagine if instead of building that, we'd decided that the A58 and A62 would have enough capacity if we added a few bypasses.
There has certainly been prevarication at many levels about TRU and NPR, which is highly lamentable.
However, even with the most favourable progress imaginable, it is unlikely that much use could have been made of the unforeseeable drop in current passenger numbers.
One only has to look at the limited use NR has been able to make of this period for more mundane renewal or enhancement projects. Really it's only repair projects (after landslips or flooding etc.) that lines have been closed for longer to compress work.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Thank you very much. It really is appreciated the hard work you put into this.
Legolash2o
Member
- Joined
- 27 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 601
Is the electrification between York and Leeds confirmed to happen?
59CosG95
Established Member
Not officially AFAIK, but it would be madness not to do so, especially as (to my knowledge) the EC PSU2 SFC feeder at Hambleton Jn
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Just 59cosG59's 3. Church Fenton - Colton Jn as part of the Grayling era minimum scope.
1 and 2. Watch what the Chancellor says tomorrow.
Legolash2o
Member
- Joined
- 27 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 601
Thanks for letting know. I'll leave it un-proposed on my maps.
Class 170101
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2014
- Messages
- 7,933
Any scope for further east beyond Selby?
59CosG95
Established Member
Afraid not - the document and diagram I obtained the info from shows a TSC in the Selby area and that's it. No further scope east to Hull.
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
Which further compounds how short sighted the electrification work still remains. A gap in wiring east of selby and with that, two fleets of trains either requiring significant running on diesel under the wires or electric trains lugging around gensets for the purpose of covering a small gap. Hull is the new uckfield...
As long as what is designed so far does not preclude wires east of Selby at a later stage, then I fail to see the problem.
59CosG95
Established Member
Amen to that.
Has the work to Hambleton feeder been completed?
59CosG95
Established Member
No, it's ongoing as part of PSU2. They haven't even installed the new ASG building as the SFC comes first!
superkev
Established Member
Re yesterday budget. Sad that there was no mention of an funding for any transpennine or any other electrification or indeed any shovel ready railway works.
Sadly I think that I agree with the article in this months modern railways that the Dept of twirps (DFt) has convinced Snapps to wait for some future technology rather than do anymore electrification.
K
Sadly I think that I agree with the article in this months modern railways that the Dept of twirps (DFt) has convinced Snapps to wait for some future technology rather than do anymore electrification.
K
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Last year we were told they were waiting for various infrastructure plans to be published, this year it seems to that the National Infrastructure Bank will have to be set up before anything happens. They are just kicking the can down the road (see also Williams review and National Bus Strategy)
Glenn1969
Established Member
And the Integrated Rail Plan has again been delayed. It is now due "in the next 3 months". Which takes you to June
Purple Orange
On Moderation
Has that just been announced? Or is it the announcement made at the start of the year?
Glenn1969
Established Member
I believe it has just been announced
Purple Orange
On Moderation
Do you have a link? I can only find articles referencing Q1 this year.
Glenn1969
Established Member
It was buried in a piece I read on a TfN newsletter I subscribe to that came this week
Having just got another newsletter from TfN they are saying the expect the Integrated Rail Plan to be published at the end of March
Having just got another newsletter from TfN they are saying the expect the Integrated Rail Plan to be published at the end of March
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