Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[snowball]

Manchester - Stalybridge folks: you might want to check this website out. https://manchestertostalybridge.co.uk/

From the FAQ on that page:

What key work is taking place in 2021 and beyond?

• We will be OLE piling until the end of this year.
• Later this year, we will begin installing steel masts (which is a less disruptive activity) and we will let you know when this is scheduled to take place.
• Beyond 2021, there will be further associated works in the coming years including signalling upgrades, bridge reconstructions, level crossing improvements and track renewal.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

My big notice was work at Newton Heath. I asked a question on the website “Is NH getting wired?”

 

[snowball]

My big notice was work at Newton Heath. I asked a question on the website “Is NH getting wired?”

I don't think they are using "Newton Heath" in the traditional railway sense, i.e. to mean Newton Heath depot or anywhere very near to that. Non-railway-specific maps tend to have Newton Heath marked in the angle between the Rochdale line and the Stalybridge line. And the map on the page linked by 59CosG95 has Newton Heath marked even further to the east and south than typical non-railway maps - nearer Clayton Bridge. So I think they are using it to mean the next bit of the line towards Stalybridge.

I hope you get an answer soon to settle the matter.

 

[Foggycorner]

On the train to stalybridge on wednesday I noticed that the tube piles had been put in on the UP side of the line from the last mast for the existing wiring to the end of the stone siding at miles platting, easy to spot they have nice bright pink plastic top covers on the tubes, not sure if any were missing and none yet on the other side of the tracks

 

[gimmea50anyday]

As up is towards Guide Bridge, Victoria bound the up becomes the down, so just so we are clear to those who don't know the geography are you referring to the Manchester Victoria bound direction or Guid Bridge direction? Either way I expect what they will do is concentrate on one direction first then come back the other way. Think this is what they did at Church Fenton as that way they were working in the direction of the traffic flow. Of course I could be wrong......

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As up is towards Guide Bridge, Victoria bound the up becomes the down, so just so we are clear to those who don't know the geography are you referring to the Manchester Victoria bound direction or Guid Bridge direction? Either way I expect what they will do is concentrate on one direction first then come back the other way. Think this is what they did at Church Fenton as that way they were working in the direction of the traffic flow. Of course I could be wrong......

Unless it's changed recently, westbound from Stalybridge to Manchester via either route is Up, isn't it?
Indicating the current main line direction, Stalybridge to Guide Bridge is the Up Huddersfield, whereas the Victoria route becomes the Up Ashton and then Up Rochdale Slow after Miles Platting.
Maybe it will change when Stalybridge is remodelled (again!).

 

[jfollows]

Unless it's changed recently, westbound from Stalybridge to Manchester via either route is Up, isn't it?
Indicating the current main line direction, Stalybridge to Guide Bridge is the Up Huddersfield, whereas the Victoria route becomes the Up Ashton and then Up Rochdale Slow after Miles Platting.
Maybe it will change when Stalybridge is remodelled (again!).

In case it's of any interest, a plan from May 2015 attached.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

just checked the sectional appendix, yeah, its “Up” all the way of o Manchester Victoria. It is also up to Guide bridge but changes at Guide Bridge Junction

 

[Foggycorner]

Just to clear things up I was traveling from Man Vic to Stalybridge so the piles had been put in between the end of the present wiring and the top of platting bank just before the junction and the new bridge works and the widened curve to the ashton line

 

[edwin_m]

And I think you're saying the piles in question are just on the east/south side, which is where they would have to be to electrify the two tracks mainly used by trains to and from Stalybridge. As discussed a page or two back, it will be interesting to see if any appear on the other side, as that would indicate electrification of all four tracks.

 

[Glenn1969]

Not sure why the Rochdale lines would be wired? That route is surely out of scope for Transpennine Route Upgrade? I think it will be wired at a much later date

 

[59CosG95]

Not sure why the Rochdale lines would be wired? That route is surely out of scope for Transpennine Route Upgrade? I think it will be wired at a much later date

Depending on the spacing of the tracks, and any signal sighting requirements, portal structures might be installed to span the Rochdale lines too (esp. at crossovers). There's nothing to prevent this being done, but just don't expect cantilevers to be installed over the Rochdales.

 

[edwin_m]

Aren't there crossovers just before Miles Platting, which electric trains could only use if all four tracks were electrified into Victoria?

 

[zwk500]

Aren't there crossovers just before Miles Platting, which electric trains could only use if all four tracks were electrified into Victoria?

Nope, that junction runs the wrong way. Trains from Stalybridge are committed to the southern Pair until Victoria throat.

EDIT: Funnily enough, the quail I've just checked that junction in shows all 4 lines and as far as Newton Heath depot access line (but not the depot itself) as due for electrification in 2016....

 

[Class 170101]

Those may be overrun limits to ensure an electric train wrong routed doesn't end up off the wires or reduces the chances of this happening.

 

[zwk500]

Those may be overrun limits to ensure an electric train wrong routed doesn't end up off the wires or reduces the chances of this happening.

What it may or may not have been is quite apart from the point I was making about them having supposed to have been electrified 5 years ago!

 

[snowball]

Wiring of the two bay platforms at Victoria, and of the tracks for a few hundred yards eastward, far enough to enable an electric train to shunt from any platform to any other, was completed in 2019. The track layout and the extent of the wires can be seen in this cab video of a March 2019 journey from Manchester Airport to York. Departure from Victoria is at 25:56, the wires peter out between 27:20 and 27:30, and the train enters the right-hand curve at Miles Platting at 28:40. The most easterly OLE structure is level with the corner where Bromley Street turns away from running parallel to the line towards Rochdale Road.

Cab video:

Satellite view:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

 

[CAF397]

Had a little trip out to Stalybridge and back today.

Looking out of the windows, I saw the following.

Down Rochdale Fast side - 8 piles (with orange caps) around Collyhurst and Miles Platting Jn. Nothing around the current end of electrification.

Up Rochdale Slow - 14 piles (with caps) around Miles Platting Jn and Collyhurst siding, with a few buried in undergrowth so could be more.

There was also 1 by the current end of electrification on the way down to Bromley St Jn.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looks like 4-track wiring (or 4-track gantries with the Slows wired) up the hill to Miles Platting Jn, then, at least.

 

[59CosG95]

Looks like 4-track wiring (or 4-track gantries with the Slows wired) up the hill to Miles Platting Jn, then, at least.

I thought as much that that's what they'd do. Gives flexibility and deals with any potential signal-sighting issues.

 

[adamedwards]

Will the wiring be phased in or all in one section? I'm thinking the biggest benefit is going electric up the hill, which is being done first. Is there a logical point where the wires are split into a second section on to Stalybridge e.g. at the substation (aka the Great Extension Lead Socket!)

 

[Roger B]

Will the wiring be phased in or all in one section? I'm thinking the biggest benefit is going electric up the hill, which is being done first. Is there a logical point where the wires are split into a second section on to Stalybridge e.g. at the substation (aka the Great Extension Lead Socket!)

Good to hear up the hill is being done first. I hope they're doing down the hill while they're at it - way more expensive to do them separately. And when they're sorted address those on the level.

 

[snowball]

There's a feature on TRU in the June Modern Railways, pp. 62-65. Not much we don't know already except that the realignment at Morley will include relocating the station 200m east. (Edit: maybe there will be a straight section there between left- and right-hand curves????)

Also Cottingley station may close when the White Rose Centre station opens.

There's also an article on the Hope Valley upgrade which I haven't read yet.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Manchester - Stalybridge folks: you might want to check this website out. https://manchestertostalybridge.co.uk/

This got me really interested. Obviously do not want to go into speculative mode and take the thread OT but - the data is published right there on the home page.

473 piles
8 months project
(7m deep - but not relevant for this comment)
60 metres apart approximately
project length 8 miles.

So first of all I googled to be sure the distance between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge even though I already knew it because of years of Peak and Generator bashing in the 1970s and 1980s. Then I did the mathematics on the published data.
Manchester to Stalybridge project

number of piles 473
metres between piles (stated) 60
total distance metres 28320 = 60 x (473-1) metres
but piles needed both sides of line so divide by 2 = 14160 metres
Both sides miles 8.799 miles

Now of course there are 4 track section and anchor terminators etc. But this looks like conclusive proof the whole section is getting piled and if you are doing that then it is going to get sparked up.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The logical thing to do (but since when did that apply?) would be to wire up to the electric feeding point at Heyrod, which is a mile beyond Stalybridge station and tunnel.
They might choose to finish just east of the station/west of the tunnel, but then that might not make the east end crossovers usable for electric trains.
There is no real point in wiring any less.
I suppose there's a "do minimum" solution to wire only into the west end bay platforms, but that won't help fast trains switching modes.
There are definitely more positive noises about full TP electrification now.

 

[snowball]

The logical thing to do (but since when did that apply?)

Informed Sources first law...

would be to wire up to the electric feeding point at Heyrod, which is a mile beyond Stalybridge station and tunnel.
They might choose to finish just east of the station/west of the tunnel, but then that might not make the east end crossovers usable for electric trains.
There is no real point in wiring any less.
I suppose there's a "do minimum" solution to wire only into the west end bay platforms, but that won't help fast trains switching modes.
There are definitely more positive noises about full TP electrification now.

I seem to remember reading in a couple of places recently that Stalybridge Tunnel is a bit of a nightmare, in terms of being the main loading gauge bottleneck on the route. I suppose as long as it remains unwired, the evil day of deciding what to do about it remains put off.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Informed Sources first law...


I seem to remember reading in a couple of places recently that Stalybridge Tunnel is a bit of a nightmare, in terms of being the main loading gauge bottleneck on the route. I suppose as long as it remains unwired, the evil day of deciding what to do about it remains put off.

I've heard differing things about Standedge with regard to wiring- those that say the tunnel itself is the problem (i.e. it's difficult even as tunnels in general go) seem to be predominantly politicians or accountants. The Engineer's perspective seems to be that the tunnel itself shouldn't be any harder than any other two-track tunnel, other than the extra complication that comes by default due to the length- and that the houses at Mossley are a bigger puzzle to solve.

 

[snowball]

I've heard differing things about Standedge with regard to wiring- those that say the tunnel itself is the problem (i.e. it's difficult even as tunnels in general go) seem to be predominantly politicians or accountants. The Engineer's perspective seems to be that the tunnel itself shouldn't be any harder than any other two-track tunnel, other than the extra complication that comes by default due to the length- and that the houses at Mossley are a bigger puzzle to solve.

Note my post was about Stalybridge tunnel, not Standedge.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Note my post was about Stalybridge tunnel, not Standedge.

Oops! I think my brain just auto-completed it as Standedge.

I assume that Stalybridge tunnel doesn't have the complication of a canal tunnel being adjacent and at a lower level, so track-lowering should in theory be less troublesome?

 

[edwin_m]

I seem to remember reading in a couple of places recently that Stalybridge Tunnel is a bit of a nightmare, in terms of being the main loading gauge bottleneck on the route. I suppose as long as it remains unwired, the evil day of deciding what to do about it remains put off.

I've just seen this in June's Modern Railways.

Oops! I think my brain just auto-completed it as Standedge.

I assume that Stalybridge tunnel doesn't have the complication of a canal tunnel being adjacent and at a lower level, so track-lowering should in theory be less troublesome?

It does lead almost directly off a viaduct though, and has the disused Micklehurst Loop portal very close by.