Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[InOban]

Maintenance is checking / repairing what’s there.

Renewal is replacing it (and accounted for differently, as per accounting standards).

you're right of course. But nothing to do with TPU, surely.

 

[Nottingham59]

But nothing to do with TPU

Unfortunately, this government has a tendency to announce capital spending on renewals as if it were actually being spent on upgrading.

 

[td97]

you're right of course. But nothing to do with TPU, surely.

The existing equipment may not be wholly life expired but would not suffice for TPU service specification so therefore needs replacing and comes under TPU funding.
In the same way that the 1990's era OLE out of Paddington was renewed for GWML electrification.

 

[59CosG95]

The existing equipment may not be wholly life expired but would not suffice for TPU service specification so therefore needs replacing and comes under TPU funding.
In the same way that the 1990's era OLE out of Paddington was renewed for GWML electrification.

I can foresee a lot of headspans being replaced with TTCs and portals then. Visually, not everyone's cup of tea, but certainly far more reliable & resilient.

The SICAT equipment that's going in from Colton to Ch. Fenton is visually not far removed from Mark 3 or UK1 (see post-modernised WCML), and (crucially) has 250mm uplift which 125mph running requires.

For more ancillary matters, I'm fairly sure ECPSU 2 is taking care of the boosters from Colton to York (IIRC there's 2 boostered overlaps; one at Copmanthorpe, the other at Dringhouses) - though I could be wrong.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The existing equipment may not be wholly life expired but would not suffice for TPU service specification so therefore needs replacing and comes under TPU funding.
In the same way that the 1990's era OLE out of Paddington was renewed for GWML electrification.

Thanks for that clarification I was wondering. I suppose that section sees some heavy high speed running too so would wear more quickly.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That's WYCA for you

White Rose was originally a Leeds City Council pet project wasn't it? Using funds from the cancelled trolleybus scheme?

To be honest, all three of Cottingley, White Rose and Morley (the town, rather than the present station site) would be better served by a modern tram system, but that's somewhat off-topic.

 

[yorkie]

Can we stick to TPE route upgrade updates in this thread please

Speculation is very welcome in the appropriate forum section, but that doesn't include this thread which is in the Infrastructure & Stations section

Thanks

 

[59CosG95]

The June project tracker is now live for York - Church Fenton. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-co...n-Improvement-Scheme-Project-Tracker-June.pdf
There's more piling to do on the 1st & 2nd (next Tues & next Weds) in the Braegate Lane & Bolton Percy areas, and 3 Sunday nights in a row (6th/13th/20th) around Ulleskelf.
Work to install the outstanding main steelwork looks to be booked for 4 weeks in June too.
Colton & Ulleskelf should expect some more SPS in the next few weeks.

Perhaps most surprisingly of all, the RRAPs at Bolton Percy & Ulleskelf are due for removal near the end of June.

 

[D6130]

I saw the electrification progress for the first time yesterday en route to and from York for the Forum curry and I must say that I was very disappointed to see the hideously ugly and intrusive Great Western-style structures being used. What's wrong with the Italian catenary used in the recent North-Western and Scottish electrification schemes, especially now that it's been certified for higher speeds? Maybe, as someone suggested upthread, they're using up spare equipment ordered for the GW sections which are not now being electrified.

 

[hwl]

I saw the electrification progress for the first time yesterday en route to and from York for the Forum curry and I must say that I was very disappointed to see the hideously ugly and intrusive Great Western-style structures being used. What's wrong with the Italian catenary used in the recent North-Western and Scottish electrification schemes, especially now that it's been certified for higher speeds? Maybe, as someone suggested upthread, they're using up spare equipment ordered for the GW sections which are not now being electrified.

The big stuff is mainly for the tensioning / sectioning etc.

 

[Glenn1969]

Thought the £317m is just for the work that has already started York to Church Fenton

Nothing will happen re Huddersfield- Westtown until mid 2023 due to the time it normally takes to approve a TWAO. I still don't see Stalybridge- Huddersfield being wired before 2030 even though I want it to be

 

[59CosG95]

The big stuff is mainly for the tensioning / sectioning etc.

Worth mentioning, perhaps, that the biggest booms (the mono-anchors) have also been used at overlaps/crossovers on the Midland Main Line, the Great Eastern Main Line (& Southend Branch) and the Gospel Oak-Barking Line (at Gospel Oak itself). On multi-track overlaps, they remove the requirement for 'flying tail' wires, as all the tensioning equipment (on inner & outer tracks) can be mounted on the boom; they also do away with the need to have the out-of-running catenary/contact cross the in-running catenary/contact, thereby massively reducing the risk of catenary wire wear & pantograph hookover at those locations.

With the planned linespeed increases (to 125mph IIRC, perhaps higher for HS2 trains when they arrive?), the amount of damage done from dewirements also increases.
Personally, I don't know why the designers have opted for Series 1 masts in near ubiquity between Church Fenton & Colton Jn, but I'd hazard a guess that ease and speed of installation play their part (certainly for the 'hook & pin'/'land & leave' TTCs). The fact that, on a circa 5-mile section of 4-track railway, most of the structures have been installed in 4 months, certainly champions speed IMO!

 

[Brissle Girl]

The fact that, on a circa 5-mile section of 4-track railway, most of the structures have been installed in 4 months, certainly champions speed IMO!

I'm slightly surprised that the commissioning date is not until October 22, with the wires only scheduled to go up in January. Do you think that the project is likely to get ahead of those timescales?

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm slightly surprised that the commissioning date is not until October 22, with the wires only scheduled to go up in January. Do you think that the project is likely to get ahead of those timescales?

It only got announced on Wednesday!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The surprising thing about the NW electrification was the number of different contractors used on the job.
It doesn't seem that it's a job for just one contractor (say Balfour Beatty) - there's probably a whole set of sub-contractors and suppliers doing specialist jobs.
It must take time to line all these contracts up and press "Go".
Maybe it will go more smoothly as they work westwards...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm slightly surprised that the commissioning date is not until October 22, with the wires only scheduled to go up in January. Do you think that the project is likely to get ahead of those timescales?

The longer it takes, the more times HMG can "announce" the investment as if it were new money each time... It'll see them through by-elections for years!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The longer it takes, the more times HMG can "announce" the investment as if it were new money each time... It'll see them through by-elections for years!

That is the cynical view but salami slicing and breaking the work up into sections also reduces risk to DfT and Treasury. I think it is good strategy until the pain and memory of GWML is gone.

 

[BrianW]

That is the cynical view but salami slicing and breaking the work up into sections also reduces risk to DfT and Treasury. I think it is good strategy until the pain and memory of GWML is gone.

Contraversially perhaps, I hope 'the pain and memory of GWML' will be long-remembered. It's a salutary lesson if ever lessons are to be learned, esp the right lessons. As has been observed, 'if we learn anything from history it's that we learn nothing from history'. Another one: 'Fail to plan; plan to fail'. And another, 'there's no Plan B'. If I've said (announced?) it once ... taking ALL my personal belongings ... does THAT one work? Contracts for serial whole 'salamis' with possible extension and break clauses may give more confidence than a small salami slice? Just a thought; any evidence?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Contraversially perhaps, I hope 'the pain and memory of GWML' will be long-remembered. It's a salutary lesson if ever lessons are to be learned, esp the right lessons. As has been observed, 'if we learn anything from history it's that we learn nothing from history'. Another one: 'Fail to plan; plan to fail'. And another, 'there's no Plan B'. If I've said (announced?) it once ... taking ALL my personal belongings ... does THAT one work? Contracts for serial whole 'salamis' with possible extension and break clauses may give more confidence than a small salami slice? Just a thought; any evidence?

Provided EVERYONE takes their share of the blame and learns from it which includes government, DafT, treasury and NR.

 

[Ken H]

given where we are, with the the government having chucked billions at COVID, and the clusterf*ck that was Great Western electrification, I think we have to be thankful for ANY wires going up. Yes I know a rolling programme is more efficient but I think we have to be a tad realistic. But getting Leeds - Church Fenton wired seems to be a no-brainer for early implelementation IMHO.

 

[hwl]

Yes I know a rolling programme is more efficient but I think we have to be a tad realistic. But getting Leeds - Church Fenton wired seems to be a no-brainer for early implementation IMHO.

TRU will effectively be a semi-rolling programme on it own and it has to start some where so why not hte easy bit that needs the least other stuff doing?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

TRU will effectively be a semi-rolling programme on it own and it has to start some where so why not hte easy bit that needs the least other stuff doing?

Well the funders, and the public, want to know what they are getting for their money.
Switching TPE bi-modes to electric for 10 more miles than now doesn't seem much return for £xxx million.

 

[Purple Orange]

Well the funders, and the public, want to know what they are getting for their money.
Switching TPE bi-modes to electric for 10 more miles than now doesn't seem much return for £xxx million.

We do know what we’re getting for our money. Less diesel. Money well spent.

 

[Starmill]

We do know what we’re getting for our money. Less diesel. Money well spent.

I think the point being made was that the cost (and the carbon cost) of the diesel saved by one service per hour in each direction for approximately ten miles is really very small, and that's it for the foreseeable future.

The work is key, for the future, of course. But it is not key for what it will deliver in 2022.

It also strikes me that the new fast lines and Huddersfield station being complete in 2028-29 would work out reasonably well for completing the remaining pieces of electrification in time for, or just after, those open. It's not critical to have any wires up anywhere until that job is finished really.

 

[nr758123]

We do know what we’re getting for our money. Less diesel. Money well spent.

We don't know what the completed TRU will look like, and therefore we don't know what outcomes for passengers and communities along the route will be delivered at the end of TRU.

We do know that the four tracking will be hugely disruptive to passengers and communities over a long period, and not just for the communities on that section of route. Stations west of Huddersfield, where there isn't a road alternative or an alternative railhead within easy reach which doesn't involve vastly extended journey times, will be particularly hard hit. As a passenger whose journeys will be hugely disrupted whist Huddersfield station is being rebuilt, I don't think it's unreasonable to know what the end result delivers.

 

[greyman42]

Well the funders, and the public, want to know what they are getting for their money.
Switching TPE bi-modes to electric for 10 more miles than now doesn't seem much return for £xxx million.

There is also the advantage of bi-modes not having to use diesel within the confines of York station.

 

[themiller]

There is also the advantage of bi-modes not having to use diesel within the confines of York station.

Presumably, because the changeover point is removed from the complexity of the station, it’ll be easier to monitor the contact wire for damage from raising and dropping pantographs.

 

[swt_passenger]

Presumably, because the changeover point is removed from the complexity of the station, it’ll be easier to monitor the contact wire for damage from raising and dropping pantographs.

That doesn’t necessarily follow, because changes in a station will normally only occur when stopped, and the perceived problems are caused by changeovers at speed.

Restrictions on changeover location are usually expressed in terms of only limited speeds being allowed, except in certain defined areas, but the pan can be raised or lowered anywhere if stopped.

 

[themiller]

That doesn’t necessarily follow, because changes in a station will normally only occur when stopped, and the perceived problems are caused by changeovers at speed.

Restrictions on changeover location are usually expressed in terms of only limited speeds being allowed, except in certain defined areas, but the pan can be raised or lowered anywhere if stopped.

I’m assuming that the conditions are similar whether at speed or stationary. The driver cuts power before raising or lowering pantograph so the only power being taken from the overhead is hotel power. Or does the driver just ‘bat on’ with whatever power setting he wants?

 

[swt_passenger]

I’m assuming that the conditions are similar whether at speed or stationary. The driver cuts power before raising or lowering pantograph so the only power being taken from the overhead is hotel power. Or does the driver just ‘bat on’ with whatever power setting he wants?

The restrictions are about the physical impact with, and movement of the catenary when the pan rises, not the electrical load as such. On a bi-mode the generators will have the load if the pan is down, and the circuit breaker won’t close until the pan is up.