Transpennine woes and a moan...

[AndyHudds]

Absolutely on top form this morning, 9 services cancelled from Huddersfield between 5.29am and 8.46am.

 

[gledhill56]

Absolutely on top form this morning, 9 services cancelled from Huddersfield between 5.29am and 8.46am.

I can only see 7 cancelled overall unless your counting Northern cancellations too. You’ve also not specified which direction either.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Huddersfield between 0529 and 0846 on 20/06/2022

Train information at Huddersfield between 0529 and 0846 on 20/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[AndyHudds]

I can only see 7 cancelled overall unless your counting Northern cancellations too. You’ve also not specified which direction either.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Huddersfield between 0529 and 0846 on 20/06/2022

Train information at Huddersfield between 0529 and 0846 on 20/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Apologies, I may have inadvertently included the Northern one too, either that or I can't count anymore. In both directions.

 

[Spartacus]

You can probably count the 0646 From Huddersfield, 1P61 MIA - Redcar, which for some reason started from York on an amended schedule.

 

[AndyHudds]

You can probably count the 0646 From Huddersfield, 1P61 MIA - Redcar, which for some reason started from York on an amended schedule.

I usually catch the 6.46 from Huddersfield in a morning but I was including that one too.

 

[Killingworth]

These are today's pre-planned cancellations.

The withdrawn/cancelled 5.04 from Cleethorpes forms the 7.07 from Sheffield, probably the most popular commuting time train of the day for Manchester. Hopefully the 3 car Northern at 7.14 coped. EMR's 2 car 7.38 was also cancelled!

 

[D6700]

On Friday afternoon, I decided to have an evening out in Scarborough, travelling from York at 17:00. Whilst I prefer to support ticket offices (especially those with good staff, like at York), I really dislike the thin wallpaper size tickets they now issue, so attempted buy from one of the machines, as they still issue "proper" tickets.

However, I was unable to purchase a ticket from the machine because it said one or more of the trains I had chosen required a reservation - but that a reservation wasn't possible! As such, I had to go to the ticket office, where they were able to issue a ticket without any bother. They also asked me if I had checked the time of the last train back, which was several hours earlier than usual. At least the Scarborough route hadn't been completely abandoned on this non-strike day, unlike the routes to Middlesbrough and Newcastle, which, from looking at Realtime Trains, don't appear to have had a TPE service since Monday!

Going back to the main point, had the ticket office been closed, I would have had no ability to purchase a ticket at the station - and could have received a penalty fare, as ticket issuing facilities were available - the machines weren't broken. My ticket was checked on train in both directions.

Having looked at Realtime Trains, I discovered that TPE had made the trains "Reservations Compulsory". Looking further, this appears to have applied to all their routes all week after Monday, including today (Sunday). I hope this is a data error, rather than a deliberate choice. LNER ticket machines require a journey to be associated with a ticket purchase. Failure to successfully buy a ticket will, at best, put people off travelling, but at worst, may criminalise some passengers suffering from industry created problems.

Since some relevant people in TPE read this thread, please take the necessary action to rectify this blunder in the future.

 

[Watershed]

On Friday afternoon, I decided to have an evening out in Scarborough, travelling from York at 17:00. Whilst I prefer to support ticket offices (especially those with good staff, like at York), I really dislike the thin wallpaper size tickets they now issue, so attempted buy from one of the machines, as they still issue "proper" tickets.

However, I was unable to purchase a ticket from the machine because it said one or more of the trains I had chosen required a reservation - but that a reservation wasn't possible! As such, I had to go to the ticket office, where they were able to issue a ticket without any bother. They also asked me if I had checked the time of the last train back, which was several hours earlier than usual. At least the Scarborough route hadn't been completely abandoned on this non-strike day, unlike the routes to Middlesbrough and Newcastle, which, from looking at Realtime Trains, don't appear to have had a TPE service since Monday!

Going back to the main point, had the ticket office been closed, I would have had no ability to purchase a ticket at the station - and could have received a penalty fare, as ticket issuing facilities were available - the machines weren't broken. My ticket was checked on train in both directions.

Having looked at Realtime Trains, I discovered that TPE had made the trains "Reservations Compulsory". Looking further, this appears to have applied to all their routes all week after Monday, including today (Sunday). I hope this is a data error, rather than a deliberate choice. LNER ticket machines require a journey to be associated with a ticket purchase. Failure to successfully buy a ticket will, at best, put people off travelling, but at worst, may criminalise some passengers suffering from industry created problems.

Since some relevant people in TPE read this thread, please take the necessary action to rectify this blunder in the future.

The reservations flag doesn't get changed by accident, I'll say that. It's clearly a deliberate decision, probably in an attempt to reduce the attractiveness of the strike service and hence the number of passengers.

However, if the ticket office had been closed you couldn't have been penalised in any way. Firstly, there is a sign at the entrance to York ticket office stating that tickets may be bought onboard trains when the ticket office is closed.

This constitutes permission to board without a ticket, which is one of the circumstances where Penalty Fares cannot be charged. You would have to be sold the appropriate ticket onboard, including any applicable Off-Peak or Railcard discounts.

Furthermore, if the TVM refuses to sell you a ticket to your destination then it's not an opportunity to purchase, is it? Just because there is a TVM doesn't mean it is necessarily possible to buy a ticket; it may not accept the (valid) payment method you have, it might have a fault, or as in this case, it might be hamstrung by being an itinerary based planner and reservations being blocked on a "reservations compulsory" service.

Now of course I still wouldn't eliminate the possibility of wrongly being charged a Penalty Fare or being told you have to pay for an undiscounted Anytime ticket. But in the event this happened you would at least have recourse (in theory)

The least you would have expected, in such a circumstance, would be a national retail brief detailing which TOCs are blocking reservations despite having a "compulsory reservations" flag, meaning it may be impossible to buy a ticket. Of course nothing of the sort has been forthcoming; this demonstrates exactly the kind of careless attitude to customer service and keeping staff informed that the rail industry is notorious for.

 

[sjpowermac]

It's clearly a deliberate decision, probably in an attempt to reduce the attractiveness of the strike service and hence the number of passengers.

I think that even without compulsory reservations TPE had already done a fantastic job of reducing the ‘attractiveness’ of the service on the Scarborough line each day after the strikes by:

1. Reducing it to (broadly) every two hours.
2. Making the last train from York to Scarborough over 90 minutes earlier than usual.
3. Making the last train from Scarborough to York over 2 hours earlier than usual.

As a plus though, at least all but two of the trains were Class 68 hauled

 

[Elecman]

My understanding of this is that the space will be used by Network Rail to replace the demolished square one building outside Piccadilly

Correct

 

[D6700]

The reservations flag doesn't get changed by accident, I'll say that. It's clearly a deliberate decision, probably in an attempt to reduce the attractiveness of the strike service and hence the number of passengers.

However, if the ticket office had been closed you couldn't have been penalised in any way. Firstly, there is a sign at the entrance to York ticket office stating that tickets may be bought onboard trains when the ticket office is closed.

This constitutes permission to board without a ticket, which is one of the circumstances where Penalty Fares cannot be charged. You would have to be sold the appropriate ticket onboard, including any applicable Off-Peak or Railcard discounts.

Furthermore, if the TVM refuses to sell you a ticket to your destination then it's not an opportunity to purchase, is it? Just because there is a TVM doesn't mean it is necessarily possible to buy a ticket; it may not accept the (valid) payment method you have, it might have a fault, or as in this case, it might be hamstrung by being an itinerary based planner and reservations being blocked on a "reservations compulsory" service.

Now of course I still wouldn't eliminate the possibility of wrongly being charged a Penalty Fare or being told you have to pay for an undiscounted Anytime ticket. But in the event this happened you would at least have recourse (in theory)

The least you would have expected, in such a circumstance, would be a national retail brief detailing which TOCs are blocking reservations despite having a "compulsory reservations" flag, meaning it may be impossible to buy a ticket. Of course nothing of the sort has been forthcoming; this demonstrates exactly the kind of careless attitude to customer service and keeping staff informed that the rail industry is notorious for.

It is very disappointing to hear that such a poor action would have been a deliberate act, albeit perhaps done without being aware of all resulting effects. Hopefully, any such operator, will have a serious rethink once they become aware of the problems they are causing to their customers - and will not repeat this blunder.

 

[Watershed]

It is very disappointing to hear that such a poor action would have been a deliberate act, albeit perhaps done without being aware of all resulting effects. Hopefully, any such operator, will have a serious rethink once they become aware of the problems they are causing to their customers - and will not repeat this blunder.

I think you'll have to raise a complaint, and escalate it up quite a few levels, for feedback to make its way to the people who would have made the decision.

 

[Foxcover]

On Friday afternoon, I decided to have an evening out in Scarborough, travelling from York at 17:00. Whilst I prefer to support ticket offices (especially those with good staff, like at York), I really dislike the thin wallpaper size tickets they now issue, so attempted buy from one of the machines, as they still issue "proper" tickets.

However, I was unable to purchase a ticket from the machine because it said one or more of the trains I had chosen required a reservation - but that a reservation wasn't possible! As such, I had to go to the ticket office, where they were able to issue a ticket without any bother. They also asked me if I had checked the time of the last train back, which was several hours earlier than usual. At least the Scarborough route hadn't been completely abandoned on this non-strike day, unlike the routes to Middlesbrough and Newcastle, which, from looking at Realtime Trains, don't appear to have had a TPE service since Monday!

Going back to the main point, had the ticket office been closed, I would have had no ability to purchase a ticket at the station - and could have received a penalty fare, as ticket issuing facilities were available - the machines weren't broken. My ticket was checked on train in both directions.

Having looked at Realtime Trains, I discovered that TPE had made the trains "Reservations Compulsory". Looking further, this appears to have applied to all their routes all week after Monday, including today (Sunday). I hope this is a data error, rather than a deliberate choice. LNER ticket machines require a journey to be associated with a ticket purchase. Failure to successfully buy a ticket will, at best, put people off travelling, but at worst, may criminalise some passengers suffering from industry created problems.

Since some relevant people in TPE read this thread, please take the necessary action to rectify this blunder in the future.

This was the same on the two Avanti Holyhead-Euston 10 car services on Friday afternoon, showing sold out on Trainline; we were on the 1535 between Chester and Crewe (ex Holyhead) that day, and had a full carriage to ourselves. Having seen the same tactics on TPE a couple of Sundays ago, with a similar outcome, I’d say the tactic destroys, rather than regulates, demand.

 

[flymo]

As a fairly regular user of the TPE services York to Scarborough in the past few weeks I'd say the service is shoddy at the best of times with cancellations making it a lucky dip of your train actually runs or not. Non strike day schedules meant the service was badly affected but don't think anyone really noticed as it's been bad for weeks. The Transdev 843 bus from outside Scarborough station to York and Leeds is doing a roaring trade. Seen a guy on the train last week without a ticket and the guard (or whatever the correct term is) ask for a ticket and after a bit of discussion let the guy buy a ticket on his mobile device rather than issue any penalty. The staff on the trains do actually seem very pleasant, despite all the ongoing disputes but the service itself has been totally unreliable of late. I've got 2 delay repays in and they've both been approved following cancellations.

 

[johntea]

Do services to Redcar Central always start/terminate at Piccadilly on a Saturday?

Was a nice treat departing from Platform 2 rather than the 13/14 chaos, not so nice having a 3 car unit rather than 6 due to the second ‘having an issue’ (again!)

 

[Watershed]

Do services to Redcar Central always start/terminate at Piccadilly on a Saturday?

Was a nice treat departing from Platform 2 rather than the 13/14 chaos, not so nice having a 3 car unit rather than 6 due to the second ‘having an issue’ (again!)

They do when there are engineering works closing the route via Ashton. Which has been lots of weekends in the last year.

 

[childwallblues]

On Tuesday morning I went for the 0812 Liverpool Lime Street to Glasgow Central. It did run but only as far as Preston. The conductor announced that the train would arrive on Platform 3 and passengers for stations to Carlisle should cross to Platform 4 to board the 0903 Avannti service.
Our train arrived at 0900 but on Platform 5 which meant that passengers hoping to get the 0903 would hace to use the footbridge, subway or lift to get across. Needless to say Platform 3 remained unoccupieduntil the arrival of the 0941 to Glasgow Central.

 

[northernchris]

Are the Redcar - Piccadilly's now only allocated a single 185 on Saturdays? May be coincidental but every one I saw today was a solo unit, and rammed too!

 

[Fokx]

Are the Redcar - Piccadilly's now only allocated a single 185 on Saturdays? May be coincidental but every one I saw today was a solo unit, and rammed too!

There are some which are but the majority aren’t.

Due to engineering works trains have ended up in wrong part of network, there’s a driver shortage effecting how many units can come off the depot and general maintenance is having an effect on the number of double sets. Engineering works at Ashton is also causing issues as 185 units are having to turnaround at Piccadilly p1-4 instead of the Airport, which are some of the busiest platforms. If there’s a 4 car Northern unit stabled at any point during the day, a 6 car can’t be accommodated on the platform, but a 3 car can.

 

[northernchris]

@Fokx thanks for the info, reassuring to know they aren't planned to be single units.

 

[johntea]

They really need to declassify first class on weekends when this is the case (if only to/from Leeds) as 3 cars is really only 2 and a half otherwise (not helped by many other services such as Hull being cancelled!)

Unofficially I suspect many people just chance it anyway as the guard never seems to make an appearance despite lengthy announcements relating to first class ticket holders and advance ticket restrictions!

 

[Starmill]

It is very disappointing to hear that such a poor action would have been a deliberate act, albeit perhaps done without being aware of all resulting effects. Hopefully, any such operator, will have a serious rethink once they become aware of the problems they are causing to their customers - and will not repeat this blunder.

Exactly the same thing is likely to be happening again tomorrow. The significantly reduced Sunday service is running and trains will appear in the same way in the timetable data used by the ticket machine.

Unfortunately, I think that your hope is rather misplaced. To be honest I also wonder if on a corporate level the company wouldn't just prefer you didn't travel. They'll be receiving their rather large government subsidy either way and it's a hassle for them actually running a useful service.

I would imagine that this will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future on Sundays. When the next strike days are announced it will likely be the same the day after each too.

 

[M60lad]

Quite a number of Sheffield-Piccadilly services were cancelled yesterday which were probably due to a combination of shortage of drivers and shortage of drivers that actually signed the diversion route TPE were having to take yesterday.

For some reason yesterday morning the 2 sets that were meant to form 07:00 Sheffield-Piccadilly service were brought empty from Crofton but then on getting to Sheffield the service and the return service at 08:55 from Piccadilly were cancelled due to an issue with train crew.

 

[Killingworth]

Quite a number of Sheffield-Piccadilly services were cancelled yesterday which were probably due to a combination of shortage of drivers and shortage of drivers that actually signed the diversion route TPE were having to take yesterday.

For some reason yesterday morning the 2 sets that were meant to form 07:00 Sheffield-Piccadilly service were brought empty from Crofton but then on getting to Sheffield the service and the return service at 08:55 from Piccadilly were cancelled due to an issue with train crew.

The blockades on the Hope Valley route for the 5 weekends in July will compound TPEs woes.

 

[Some guy]

The past few Sundays TPE on the west coast have been nothing short of a disgrace. 0 services from Glasgow, only a shuttle from Edinburgh to Carlisle and even worse terminating there services at Lancaster from Manchester meaning Avanti are having to take even more Transpantomine passengers

 

[Halish Railway]

One point about this ‘transpantomine’ as the previous post put it, is that it is likely to deter a lot of people from working for TPE, with frontline employees facing a lot of the brunt of passengers’ frustrations. That makes it much more difficult to reduce driver shortages.

 

[Some guy]

One point about this ‘transpantomine’ as the previous post put it, is that it is likely to deter a lot of people from working for TPE, with frontline employees facing a lot of the brunt of passengers’ frustrations. That makes it much more difficult to reduce driver shortages.

Passengers are enjoying it. Some are purposely buying TPE tickets knowing full of well it will be cancelled and allowed onto Avanti services and will get a refund for it all

 

[trover]

Passengers are enjoying it. Some are purposely buying TPE tickets knowing full of well it will be cancelled and allowed onto Avanti services and will get a refund for it all

Surely people can’t travel and refund the ticket? However, in the past few weeks I was able to save some money by purchasing the relatively cheaper TPE walk-up before cancellations were announced plus submitting a few valid delay repay claims when using an Avanti train after the cancelled TPE train (I don’t need that much flexibility of an Avanti walk-up).

 

[irish_rail]

One point about this ‘transpantomine’ as the previous post put it, is that it is likely to deter a lot of people from working for TPE, with frontline employees facing a lot of the brunt of passengers’ frustrations. That makes it much more difficult to reduce driver shortages.

What's stopping drivers applying is the p*ss poor route cards their traincrew get. If I lived around Liverpool would I really want to move over to TPE to do 2 trips to Leeds every day. No thanks. And its a shame because they could give their drivers decent route cards and folk would be queuing up. It would also help to run the service if more drivers signed more routes. Eg let Liverpool sign upto say Carlisle, and Newcastle .

 

[D6700]

Exactly the same thing is likely to be happening again tomorrow. The significantly reduced Sunday service is running and trains will appear in the same way in the timetable data used by the ticket machine.

Unfortunately, I think that your hope is rather misplaced. To be honest I also wonder if on a corporate level the company wouldn't just prefer you didn't travel. They'll be receiving their rather large government subsidy either way and it's a hassle for them actually running a useful service.

I would imagine that this will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future on Sundays. When the next strike days are announced it will likely be the same the day after each too.

I noticed that - and referred to this Sunday when I took it up with them.