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Travel Investigation Limited sent me a letter for a journey in April

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Hi all.

I have just received a letter from TIL about a journey I took in April from Stafford to Birmingham where I had attempted to purchase a ticket on board a train as Trainline wasn’t working.

I had a ticket from Stoke on Trent - Stafford which I Shae managed to purchase so I could board the train as I was running late and I intended to purchase the new ticket and explain to the inspector however when I tried to explain they took my details and refused to issue a ticket to me.

They were accusing me of boarding trains frequently without a ticket despite me explaining that if I didn’t have a ticket I would not have been able to exit at Birmingham new street, the inspector continues to pressure me for my information so I gave them my information and then unexpectedly was given a letter yesterday saying I’m being investigated and that I should provide evidence .

This is my first offence as I always travel with a valid ticket and now I am panicking because I cannot afford to be prosecuted for this as I am a uni student and it will be extremely stressful.

What do I do and what should I expect from this process?
 
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Do you know why they might think you have done this regularly?
The inspector asked me if I had done it regularly and I replied with no I always travel with a valid ticket, i think he may have gotten that from him asking me if I had purchased tickets on board before and I replied I had done that before. I have never been reported though.
 

AlterEgo

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The inspector asked me if I had done it regularly and I replied with no I always travel with a valid ticket, i think he may have gotten that from him asking me if I had purchased tickets on board before and I replied I had done that before. I have never been reported though.
Why do you purchase tickets on board the train? I assume you buy online - is that correct?
 

Hadders

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Welcome to the forum!

I'm going to be quite blunt here but why didn't you purchase a ticket from the ticket office or ticket machine at Stafford? I's be shocked if neither of these options was available when you started your journey. How did you manage to buy a ticket from Stoke on Trent to Stafford but not Stafford to Birmingham? Was your journey from Stafford to Birmingham or Stoke to Birmingham?

Unfortunately travelling on a train without a ticket is a criminal offence and if this ends up in court you will be found guilty, have to pay a fine and court costs and pitentially have a criminal record.

Now that you have received a letter asking fro your version of events it is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) to people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this, and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court, however harsh this may seem.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be around a hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.
 
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Why do you purchase tickets on board the train? I assume you buy online - is that correct?
I usually buy online but in the event of me running late or the barriers being open and I’m running late I ask to purchase on the train or the Trainline app is playing up (I have done this twice in my history of travelling)
 

Hadders

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My point is that I am now really worried over something that was clearly a mistake and I don’t know what to do or what to reply as I have never been through this before. Please could you advise me on what to say? Do I explain my side or will that be more detrimental than helpful? I need the help to make the reply that doesn’t do more damage than what I have already done. I am prepared to pay any out of court settlements but I also know they may not agree with this but how do I try and get the best outcome out of this?
My earlier post suggests what to say in reply to the letter.

You might want to have a read through some of the similar threads on this forum, although there can be no guarantees there has been a number of successful outcomes where this approach has been adopted.
 

Hadders

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I would not give an overly long explanation, it's unlikely to make a difference. You are required to have a ticket before boarding, you passed ticket machines and a ticket office where you could have purchased a ticket so any explanation is likely to hold little weight in I'm being honest.

Feel free to post a draft of your letter here and we will be happy to proof read it.
 

AlterEgo

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To an inspector this looks like a classic case of attempted doughnutting - where you travel A-D but only buy a ticket for A-B and C-D and leave the middle unbought. You bought a ticket only for the very start of the journey and realise you also need a ticket to exit the barriers at New Street. There is no good reason for you deliberately not to have purchased a ticket for your entire journey at Stoke.

Since they have your details now they may decide to look at your online purchase history and you’d better hope they don’t find tickets purchased to Birmingham New Street from a station very close to it else you’re in hotter water than you are already.

@Hadders has posted good advice already.
 
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The only thing they’d find is a later ticket from Birmingham to Coventry as that’s where I was headed after work as I live in Coventry and subsequent tickets from Coventry - Birmingham and from Birmingham - Derby as I headed to my parents house after going back to mine after work. I understand what it looks like hence why I asked to purchase a ticket I will write a letter with the hope of out of court settlement.
 
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I didn’t have time to go to a ticket office/purchase a ticket from a machine as I didn’t have a physical card with me as I rarely travel with my physical card.

Correct me if I’m wrong - but aren’t all TVMs in this part of the country are all fitted with contactless card payment devices that accept Apple Pay/Google Pay or a card issued by a Fintech like Monzo or Starling Bank - which can be used without a physical card - which renders that excuse redundant.

If you’ve got a card payment method lodged in the Trainline app - this will normally be linked into Apple Pay/Google Pay.

If not - and you don’t have an Apple Pay/Google Pay or Fintech Card stored on your phone that works contactlessly - how do you pay for everyday stuff whilst out and about as you’ve stated you don’t carry a physical card around.
 
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The only thing they’d find is a later ticket from Birmingham to Coventry as that’s where I was headed after work as I live in Coventry and subsequent tickets from Coventry - Birmingham and from Birmingham - Derby as I headed to my parents house after going back to mine after work. I understand what it looks like hence why I asked to purchase a ticket. But I will write my response and go from therw
 

Brissle Girl

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This clearly raised suspicions by the inspector of a doughnutting offence, and from my reading of the explanation given, I think there will be a few eyebrows raised by those investigating too that will make it difficult to persuade them otherwise. As has been noted, if you continue to suggest that it was a genuine mistake, and a pattern of short journeys is found on Trainline's records, you may find the investigation widens beyond the one offence.

As a final point, maybe a life skill to learn is to always carry two methods of payment with you when travelling around, especially if the only one is a phone. You never know when you might lose it, find it dead, or some other problem, and be in a pickle with no means to get back home.
 

AlterEgo

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The only thing they’d find is a later ticket from Birmingham to Coventry as that’s where I was headed after work as I live in Coventry and subsequent tickets from Coventry - Birmingham and from Birmingham - Derby as I headed to my parents house after going back to mine after work. I understand what it looks like hence why I asked to purchase a ticket. But I will write my response and go from therw
The problem is, why would you not buy a ticket for the whole journey at the first opportunity? It’s more expensive to split your tickets in the way you did, hence the inspector suspecting at the very least that you were not going to pay unless challenged.
 
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Correct me if I’m wrong - but aren’t all TVMs in this part of the country are all fitted with contactless card payment devices that accept Apple Pay/Google Pay or a card issued by a Fintech like Monzo or Starling Bank - which can be used without a physical card - which renders that excuse redundant.

If you’ve got a card payment method lodged in the Trainline app - this will normally be linked into Apple Pay/Google Pay.

If not - and you don’t have an Apple Pay/Google Pay or Fintech Card stored on your phone that works contactlessly - how do you pay for everyday stuff whilst out and about as you’ve stated you don’t carry a physical card around.
The problem is, why would you not buy a ticket for the whole journey at the first opportunity? It’s more expensive to split your tickets in the way you did, hence the inspector suspecting at the very least that you were not going to pay unless challenged.
My tickets to Coventry were for after work which was a later trip and my trip back was because I have to connect in Birmingham new street to go to derby which the tickets can be easily explained as I was heading back to my parents house after work. At time it is cheaper to split the tickets to derby. I understand the suspicion. I asked on this thread on what to do and how to respond as this has never happened to me before
 

AlterEgo

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My tickets to Coventry were for after work which was a later trip and my trip back was because I have to connect in Birmingham new street to go to derby which the tickets can be easily explained as I was heading back to my parents house after work. At time it is cheaper to split the tickets to derby. I understand the suspicion. I asked on this thread on what to do and how to respond as this has never happened to me before
We have to understand your situation before advising whether it is possible to mount a defence or provide mitigation. I’m not sure where the Derby thing comes into it - my question is, why, when you were travelling from Stoke to Birmingham for work, did you buy only a Stoke to Stafford ticket and not one to Birmingham? That is the entire crux of the matter.

Where people just say “ah I didn’t buy a ticket I didn’t have time” the disposal is relatively straightforward, but where a passenger has deliberately purchased a ticket for part of their journey - taking advantage of an opportunity to pay - but not the whole of it, this raises additional questions and the inspectors will be suspicious of more than just “no ticket” but habitual misuse. Doughnutting is the most elementary method of fare evasion and often goes undetected for some time.

Ultimately it is for the railway to gather evidence to prove you did commit the offences rather than the onus on you to prove your innocence. Nonetheless it is helpful for us to indicate what sort of offences an inspector might reasonably suspect when confronted with the evidence.
 
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We have to understand your situation before advising whether it is possible to mount a defence or provide mitigation. I’m not sure where the Derby thing comes into it - my question is, why, when you were travelling from Stoke to Birmingham for work, did you buy only a Stoke to Stafford ticket and not one to Birmingham? That is the entire crux of the matter.

Where people just say “ah I didn’t buy a ticket I didn’t have time” the disposal is relatively straightforward, but where a passenger has deliberately purchased a ticket for part of their journey - taking advantage of an opportunity to pay - but not the whole of it, this raises additional questions and the inspectors will be suspicious of more than just “no ticket” but habitual misuse. Doughnutting is the most elementary method of fare evasion and often goes undetected for some time.

Ultimately it is for the railway to gather evidence to prove you did commit the offences rather than the onus on you to prove your innocence. Nonetheless it is helpful for us to indicate what sort of offences an inspector might reasonably suspect when confronted with the evidence.
Oh okay I now understand. Yes I did purchase from Stoke to Stafford, I bought the ticket quickly and didn’t have time to stop to go to the ticket office or the ticket machine which was my mistake as I should have allowed time for that so I could have purchased a ticket for the whole journey but since I did not I assumed it was okay to purchase a ticket on the train which obviously was not which is where my problem lies. Do I explain this to the TIL or just apologise and say I will never do it again?
 

AlterEgo

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I think it is better to explain you thought you could buy a ticket on the train. @Hadders’ advice is the standard advice for these situations and you are best off following it. You have committed the offence but there’s a good chance it’ll be settled without court action.
 

island

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I just purchased a ticket with the intention of buying the rest of the ticket on board.
Nobody does this. It is equally fast to buy a ticket from A to B as to buy one from A to D.
I didn’t have time to go to a ticket office/purchase a ticket from a machine as I didn’t have a physical card with me as I rarely travel with my physical card.
Unfortunately, choosing to arrive at the station without enough time to buy a ticket does not grant an excuse to join the train without a valid ticket.
My point is that I am now really worried over something that was clearly a mistake
You must understand that to the train company and to a neutral reader, this is not "clearly a mistake" at all. Normal travellers buy one ticket, for the full length of their journey, and do this at the first opportunity. They do not buy a ticket to the next stop and "buy the rest of the ticket on board" and they do not carry several different tickets for random incomplete subsets of their journeys.
Correct me if I’m wrong - but aren’t all TVMs in this part of the country are all fitted with contactless card payment devices that accept Apple Pay/Google Pay or a card issued by a Fintech like Monzo or Starling Bank - which can be used without a physical card - which renders that excuse redundant.
Not all ticket machines have contactless payment facilities and not all of the said facilities work – so that specific point might be valid.

I concur with Hadders' advice on the next steps to take this forward – it should of course go without saying that going forward you must ensure you buy your ticket before boarding, and have the means to do so with you rather than quibbling about what machines you do and don't want to use.
 
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Nobody does this. It is equally fast to buy a ticket from A to B as to buy one from A to D.

Unfortunately, choosing to arrive at the station without enough time to buy a ticket does not grant an excuse to join the train without a valid ticket.

You must understand that to the train company and to a neutral reader, this is not "clearly a mistake" at all. Normal travellers buy one ticket, for the full length of their journey, and do this at the first opportunity. They do not buy a ticket to the next stop and "buy the rest of the ticket on board" and they do not carry several different tickets for random incomplete subsets of their journeys.

Not all ticket machines have contactless payment facilities and not all of the said facilities work – so that specific point might be valid.

I concur with Hadders' advice on the next steps to take this forward – it should of course go without saying that going forward you must ensure you buy your ticket before boarding, and have the means to do so with you rather than quibbling about what machines you do and don't want to use.
I just want to assess my options and see what the likelyhood is of going to court so I can prepare myself for that. This is really giving me anxiety because I am panicking and did not expect this. I understand how it to the investigators.
 

AlterEgo

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I just want to assess my options and see what the likelyhood is of going to court so I can prepare myself for that. This is really giving me anxiety because I am panicking and did not expect this. I understand how it to the investigators.
I think the prognosis is pretty good for an out of court settlement. It’s a relatively simple case and following the advice re: writing a letter in response should yield a good result.
 

30907

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What type of ticket (Anytime, Offpeak, Advance) did you try to buy from Stoke to Birmingham, and which train did you travel on?
Did you try to buy it at the ticket machine, or only online (sorry if you've already answered and I've missed it).
Not being nosey, there may be an explanation for why you couldn't buy the ticket you wanted.
 

Fawkes Cat

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Not being nosey, there may be an explanation for why you couldn't buy the ticket you wanted.
This is key. If there isn’t a good reason why you didn’t buy a ticket for your whole journey, then the railway will conclude that the reason you only bought a ticket for part of the journey was to avoid having to pay for the whole trip.

And it will help us understand what happened if you can explain why you did what you did - which should help us to give better advice.
 
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