Trivia: Longest delay between rolling stock being ordered and entry-into-service (and reasons why).

[RailWonderer]

I was wondering, long delivery to service times tend to happen when the order is very large and comes from a manufacturer that already has backorders and is dealing with unreliability from previous orders.
Are there examples of long order to service times? The average tends to be 2 1/2 years through manual research, so I would consider 'long' be above that timeframe.

 

[edwin_m]

Didn't the North Eastern Railway order a prototype locomotive for its East Coast electrification scheme, that was kept in a shed for a few decades then scrapped?

 

[superalbs]

Looking across to Europe, the DB 102 and 'NIM Express' passenger stock from Škoda, which was ordered in June 2013, and might enter service eventually, but it still hasn't. Apparently due to poor reliability.

 

[swt_passenger]

Weren’t the original 458/0s about 6 or 7 years from ordering in 1996/7 to all fully in service? Even then they were considered for off leasing as early as 2004, mainly because reliability was hopeless, and numbers in use gradually reduced, and it wasn’t until about 2007 that they finally became a settled part of the SWT fleet?

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Some individual cars of class 345 units must be in with a shout for this unfortunate accolade. AFAIK all are built, but some still wait marshalling into 7 car units to bring them up to 9 car units.

Some 317s spent considerable time in store when new as crews were unhappy about working them.

 

[talltim]

The prototype EM1 was built in 1941, but it wasn;t until 1950 that the production series started being built.

 

[Journeyman]

The prototype EM1 was built in 1941, but it wasn;t until 1950 that the production series started being built.

I think that must be about the longest gap - the loco was loaned to Dutch Railways in the immediate post-war period, both helping them out with a loco shortage and gaining useful experience before the production build.

 

[Spartacus]

I think that must be about the longest gap - the loco was loaned to Dutch Railways in the immediate post-war period, both helping them out with a loco shortage and gaining useful experience before the production build.

Think it was 1952 that the first section was energised too, making the gap between initial ordering of the EM1s in 1939 and entry into service around 12 years, although the order was temporarily cancelled/put on hold between 1939 and 1948.

 

[Wivenswold]

317/1s were delivered between September 1981 and December 1982 and entered service from April 1983 with the last of the batch entering service by the end of that year. So nothing compared to some of the Aventras currently parked up at Old Dalby/Worksop/Derby Works. 345001/2 were completed in 2016, though the latter is now finally at Old Oak Common.

 

[43096]

The Danish IC4 units (those AnsaldoBreda ones...) took 8 years from order to first set in service.

 

[Journeyman]

Think it was 1952 that the first section was energised too, making the gap between initial ordering of the EM1s in 1939 and entry into service around 12 years, although the order was temporarily cancelled/put on hold between 1939 and 1948.

Yup. The electrification wasn't complete until 1954 as well, so a lot of locos were idle until then.

A lot of the Southern 4-SUBs were planned to be built from 1939 onwards, but after the first few were built, war stopped production, and the final batches didn't enter service until 1951, although plans had changed quite a lot by then.

 

[RailWonderer]

Weren’t the original 458/0s about 6 or 7 years from ordering in 1996/7 to all fully in service? Even then they were considered for off leasing as early as 2004, mainly because reliability was hopeless, and numbers in use gradually reduced, and it wasn’t until about 2007 that they finally became a settled part of the SWT fleet?

4 years from ordering to the first one entering service, although as soon as all were ready for service, they were withdrawn again before SWT worked on them enough to turn them around, so 11 years until complete service.
The 720 Aventras are already at 4 1/2 years the way things are going now, probably the only UK train in the postwar era to have such a large gap. On the continent there have been larger gaps.

 

[Speed43125]

The Danish IC4 units (those AnsaldoBreda ones...) took 8 years from order to first set in service.

And weren't they a roaring success?

V250s for NS seem to have been a similarly brilliant case as well... being first ordered in 2004 and not entering service until late 2012, if extremely shorlived. You could argue that they only settled down in squadron service this year.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

The Danish IC4 units (those AnsaldoBreda ones...) took 8 years from order to first set in service.

There's one in Libya, a gift from Berlusconi to Gaddaffi, complete with a little circle of track to make a nice 1:1 scale trainset. The Danish were quite upset when they found out about that.

If/when Libya has a functional railway again maybe it'll be pressed back into service?

 

[alangla]

Nightstar....
Actually, in all seriousness, how long was it between the Nightstar 92s being built & actually earning some money?

 

[Journeyman]

Nightstar....
Actually, in all seriousness, how long was it between the Nightstar 92s being built & actually earning some money?

Similarly, the Regional Eurostars took a long time to enter service, some with GNER, some with SNCF.

 

[Speed43125]

There's one in Libya, a gift from Berlusconi to Gaddaffi, complete with a little circle of track to make a nice 1:1 scale trainset. The Danish were quite upset when they found out about that.

If/when Libya has a functional railway again maybe it'll be pressed back into service?

That would probably be like trying to get 370003 back into service

 

[norbitonflyer]

Didn't the North Eastern Railway order a prototype locomotive for its East Coast electrification scheme, that was kept in a shed for a few decades then scrapped?

Unlucky 13 was ordered by the North eastern Railway in 1920 for its York to Newcastle electrification scheme, and completed in 1922, after which it ran some trails on the Newport Shildon line. After the Grouping, the LNER canned the electrification scheme, but kept the loco, exhibiting it at the S&DR centenary in 1925. It was renumbered 6999 in the 1946 renumbering, and by BR as 26600. Although some of the Newport/Shildon locos (Nos 3-12), mothballed after de-electrification in 1935, were proposed for refurbishment and use on banking duties the Woodhead route, this was not to be and they were scrapped, along with No 13, in 1950, except for one that was used for shunting duties at Ilford until the line was converted to AC in 1960.

One of the reasons for the 458s long period in limbo was that RVAR requirements had changed between their ordering and completion, meaning that they would need modification to the passenger information screens before they could enter service.

 

[Journeyman]

It's amazing that LNER loco effectively had a normal working lifespan...without ever working! How come it was kept so long? Was there ever a hope it would be useful? Extraordinary that it made it all the way from pre-grouping to nationalisation without ever doing anything useful.

 

[swt_passenger]

One of the reasons for the 458s long period in limbo was that RVAR requirements had changed between their ordering and completion, meaning that they would need modification to the passenger information screens before they could enter service.

Yes, I’d forgotten that - wasn’t there a certain amount of brinkmanship on that issue, threats to withdraw because the dot matrix descending letters were a few millimetre too short?

 

[bramling]

I was wondering, long delivery to service times tend to happen when the order is very large and comes from a manufacturer that already has backorders and is dealing with unreliability from previous orders.
Are there examples of long order to service times? The average tends to be 2 1/2 years through manual research, so I would consider 'long' be above that timeframe.

Being pedantic, and working on the basis of going from order to the full fleet being in service, two which spring to mind are

1973 stock - two cars never entered service

Class 317 - one car was collision damaged before entering service

 

[Journeyman]

How long was it between ordering and entering service for the APT? And did all APT vehicles carry passengers?

 

[DannyMich2018]

Although not a technically new train, Northern ordered it's first Class 769 units in December 2016 if I am right. Nearly 4 years later still no sign of entry into service. A long wait for just EIGHT units, worlds away more than 100 Class 331 and 195 units have entered service in a considerably shorter timeframe by the same operator.....

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Tornado? Well over a decade from the initial thoughts in a pub via design, fundraising and build to entering service.

 

[43096]

Tornado? Well over a decade from the initial thoughts in a pub via design, fundraising and build to entering service.

IEP was 12 years from the start of the project to the first train in service. In contrast, in the 12 years between 1970 and 1982, BR designed, built and tested a prototype HST and ordered, built and commissioned 95 production sets.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

That would probably be like trying to get 370003 back into service

370003 probably has significantly fewer bullet holes.

 

[Speed43125]

370003 probably has significantly fewer bullet holes.

Bullet Holes? Really? I can't seem to find anything on that unit online easily, have you got somewhere that details it?

 

[Helvellyn]

Seven of the 1951/52 build Pullmans (301-310) were ordered pre-war, with various materials already ordered before construction was stopped.

https://sremg.org.uk/coach/coupe/coupe_se12.pdf

 

[3141]

27 trailers of London Transport's 1938 tube stock, built by Birmingham Railway Carriage and Wagon Company, weren't delivered until 1946.

The Watford Joint Stock, jointly owned by the Underground Group and the LNWR, and intended for use on Bakerloo Line trains to Watford Junction, was ordered in 1914 but delivery did not begin until 1920, and I think the last didn't arrive till 1922 (though I'm not sure about that).

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

Bullet Holes? Really? I can't seem to find anything on that unit online easily, have you got somewhere that details it?

As far as I can tell it was delivered in 2009 and had been used as an attraction for schoolchildren after the novelty wore off for Gadhafi. It's been abandoned since 2011 when the civil war came along. Since then there's been no appetite nor funding for a Libyan high speed rail network. A Danish newspaper tracked it down in 2013 and it seemed more or less intact.

This article here outlines some of the problems would-be railway builders in Libya are facing. It seems that around 2016-18 there were plans to get the railway going again but a lack of money, three different governments and dozens of armed groups make the building of railways a rather difficult business. The national railway company - happily employing 800 staff but operating no railways - didn't even seem to have full access to the train, but it might be protected?

This video from 2018 shows the train in more detail. It's clearly deteriorating and some of the images show round holes in the windows and dents on the body. Whether they're from stones or stray bullets - who's to say? In a Tripoli suburb the latter is distinctly possible.

Since 2018 the civil war in Libya has escalated and stray Danish high speed trains aren't top of anyone's agenda. I can't find any images since then, but by now it likely hasn't moved for a decade, it's unlikely to be in a good way.