Trivia: Routes which are TOC enclaves or exclaves

[gg1]

The Romford to Upminster branch is operated by London Overground but is completely isolated from the rest of their network, no LO services connecting either station to any other LO operated route.


Since privatisation have there ever been any other routes in Britain (excluding the IoW) which have been similarly isolated from the rest of their TOC’s network?

 

[route101]

Cant really think of any?

Do Northern do the Barton on Humber services?

 

[jfowkes]

Do Northern do the Barton on Humber services?

Yes, but Cleethorpes also sees some services from Sheffield, so not an enclave.

 

[Ianno87]

West Ealing - Greenford *almost* is in that GWR services running on the main line run through but don't stop at West Ealing.

However, the first train to Greenford and last train from Greenford operate through to Paddington.




Sudbury-Marks Tey presumably was an Anglia Railways 'orphan' at some point, as Anglia Railways intercity services didn't stop at Marks Tey?

 

[yorkie]

Since privatisation have there ever been any other routes in Britain (excluding the IoW) which have been similarly isolated from the rest of their TOC’s network?

Not currently, as through services are now operating, but I believe Windermere to Oxenholme could have been a contender in the past.

Sudbury-Marks Tey presumably was an Anglia Railways 'orphan' at some point, as Anglia Railways intercity services didn't stop at Marks Tey?

Yes I think that would have counted, as the definition refers to services 'connecting', which a train passing through wouldn't be.

 

[IanXC]

Yes, but Cleethorpes also sees some services from Sheffield, so not an enclave.

Only on a Saturday, and not currently...

 

[Mag_seven]

Can I be cheeky and state Heathrow Express. It only operates one service between Paddington and Heathrow Terminal 5 and doesn't connect with any other service it operates because it doesn't operate any other service! (the Heathrow Terminal 1, 2, 3 to Terminal 4 service being operated by Crossrail).

 

[pdeaves]

Does TfL Rail count, with the two extremities run with no 'middle bit' (yet)?

 

[gg1]

Thanks, some interesting responses here, I wasn't expecting a huge amount of candidates tbh. Keep them coming

Does TfL Rail count, with the two extremities run with no 'middle bit' (yet)?

Yes, only a temporary arrangement but it still counts.

Can I be cheeky and state Heathrow Express. It only operates one service between Paddington and Heathrow Terminal 5 and doesn't connect with any other service it operates because it doesn't operate any other service! (the Heathrow Terminal 1, 2, 3 to Terminal 4 service being operated by Crossrail).

Nope, as it's not isolated from the rest of the TOCs services on the basis there aren't any other services.

Sudbury-Marks Tey presumably was an Anglia Railways 'orphan' at some point, as Anglia Railways intercity services didn't stop at Marks Tey?

Yes I think that would have counted, as the definition refers to services 'connecting', which a train passing through wouldn't be.

I hadn't considered that possibility when I posted, but yes I would say it does count.

 

[Fokx]

Cant really think of any?

Do Northern do the Barton on Humber services?

Northern operated, TPE Crewed, EMT sprinters loaned

 

[bramling]

Sudbury-Marks Tey presumably was an Anglia Railways 'orphan' at some point, as Anglia Railways intercity services didn't stop at Marks Tey?

I could be misremembering, however I'm not sure that counts, as whilst the rolling stock was provided by a unit hired from Anglia, I think technically it was still operated by the Great Eastern franchise. Not sure who crewed it, though.

The awkwardness of the above arrangement was, ISTR, part of the rationale for class 121s briefly appearing on the branch in the 1990s, which unfortunately didn't go too well from a reliability point of view. I also remember one of the bumpiest train journeys I've ever had riding that branch on the aforementioned 121!

 

[Flange Squeal]

I seem to recall Chiltern Railways took over operation of the Oxford to Bicester branchline from FGW for a short period, just prior to the line's temporary closure while the extension and connection to the Chiltern Mainline was built. I realise it wasn't particularly 'isolated' in a geographical sense as the Chiltern Mainline has a station in Bicester, but the branch and mainline didn't have a connection. I'm pretty sure Chiltern didn't run a regular service between Banbury and Oxford, but I'm happy to be corrected.

 

[306024]

I could be misremembering, however I'm not sure that counts, as whilst the rolling stock was provided by a unit hired from Anglia, I think technically it was still operated by the Great Eastern franchise. Not sure who crewed it, though.

The awkwardness of the above arrangement was, ISTR, part of the rationale for class 121s briefly appearing on the branch in the 1990s, which unfortunately didn't go too well from a reliability point of view. I also remember one of the bumpiest train journeys I've ever had riding that branch on the aforementioned 121!

You are correct, the Marks Tey - Sudbury service was operated by First Great Eastern with a unit hired from Anglia Railways until they asked for their ball back. It was crewed by FGE’s Colchester depot, some of whom worked wonders in making the class 121s go at all.

 

[paul1609]

Following the recent landslip on the Tonbridge to Redhill line there was one 377 isolated at Tonbridge that worked Tonbridge to Edenbridge shuttles for Southern. It was eventually swapped over as the toilets had been overflowing on the floor for some days whilst the dynamic rail industry made arrangements for the unit to be swapped via Hastings!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Other than the LO example, and Chiltern's Oxford-Bicester (as @Flange Squeal said) I'm struggling to think of anything. There are examples of gaps in a TOC network, such as Northern and Preston-Lancaster (in the past) or York-Darlington, but those gaps are connected to the rest of the network at either end.

 

[pdeaves]

I'm pretty sure Chiltern didn't run a regular service between Banbury and Oxford, but I'm happy to be corrected.

True. However, Chiltern did run one train per day to get the unit to/from the branch. At least one direction was in passenger service. So, technically not 'compliant' by the original post, but was to all practical purposes.

 

[Flange Squeal]

True. However, Chiltern did run one train per day to get the unit to/from the branch. At least one direction was in passenger service. So, technically not 'compliant' by the original post, but was to all practical purposes.

Thanks for that. Was pretty certain they didn't run a frequent service between Banbury and Oxford, but I wasn't sure about whether the units for the branch ran empty or in service.

 

[PTR 444]

I’ve just realised that the Great Northern services to and from Moorgate do not share any stops with the GN Cambridge Cruisers, despite sharing tracks for a portion of their length. Would this count as a TOC enclave/exclave in that you cannot change from one set of GN services to the other at the same station?

 

[A Challenge]

I’ve just realised that the Great Northern services to and from Moorgate do not share any stops with the GN Cambridge Cruisers, despite sharing tracks for a portion of their length. Would this count as a TOC enclave/exclave in that you cannot change from one set of GN services to the other at the same station?

I'd think not as there are other GN services that serve both Kings Cross and Finsbury Park, any more than the Eastbourne to Ashford service is because they share no tracks with the London to Southampton Southern services.

I submit that there was a point at which Thameslink was not operating through the canal tunnels but they were operating to Kings Cross, providing an isolated segment of Thameslink services.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Grand Central’s recently abandoned Euston - Blackpool service would have fitted the criteria.

 

[PTR 444]

I'd think not as there are other GN services that serve both Kings Cross and Finsbury Park

Are these peak extras? I’m not aware of any such stopping pattern during the day

any more than the Eastbourne to Ashford service is because they share no tracks with the London to Southampton Southern services.

But you can travel from Southampton to Ashford entirely on Southern services. The difference with the GN example I mentioned above is that you cannot travel from Moorgate to Cambridge through GN territory without changing onto a Thameslink* service. Just like you cannot travel from anywhere on the main Overground to Emerson Park without using TfL rail for part of the journey.

I submit that there was a point at which Thameslink was not operating through the canal tunnels but they were operating to Kings Cross, providing an isolated segment of Thameslink services.

Similar to how First Capital Connect was for most of its life. The former WAGN services were isolated from from the Thameslink Core for more than a decade so that would have counted as another TOC enclave/exclave.

*I know Thameslink, GN and Southern are technically part of the same TOC but most of the public will recognise these as separate operations due to branding and appearing separate on rail maps.

 

[yorkie]

The difference with the GN example I mentioned above is that you cannot travel from Moorgate to Cambridge through GN territory without changing onto a Thameslink* service.

*I know Thameslink, GN and Southern are technically part of the same TOC but most of the public will recognise these as separate operations due to branding and appearing separate on rail maps.

I doubt many people on this line are fooled into thinking they are separate TOCs.

 

[bcarmicle]

Are these peak extras? I’m not aware of any such stopping pattern during the day

The last (or maybe second-last) CBG-KGX of the day stops (or at least stopped; I haven’t taken it recently) at Finsbury Park.

 

[ijmad]

Island Line - doesn't connect to SWR's other services for obvious reasons!

 

[BayPaul]

Does the Waterloo & City line count - it was run by Network Southeast and their predecessors, and whilst it served Waterloo, there was no way to get a train from one part of the station to the other.

Also, going rather further back, for the first few months of the London & Birmingham Railway it operated a stagecoach connecting Rugby and Denbeigh Hall near Bletchley, with trains operating on the two ends. I would imagine this was not very unusual with the construction of new railways.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I'm pretty sure Chiltern didn't run a regular service between Banbury and Oxford, but I'm happy to be corrected.

Chiltern did run a regular service between Banbury and Oxford - the theatre train on weekday nights, leaving Stratford at 23.15 or so. It's been cut back to Banbury since May; I'm not sure whether this is a permanent cut.

 

[randyrippley]

Windermere branch? Northern service, connections are WCML or TPE

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Windermere branch? Northern service, connections are WCML or TPE

Not isolated - just because some trains shuttle, they then get out by having some services to Manchester etc.

 

[BarryD]

Chiltern did run a regular service between Banbury and Oxford - the theatre train on weekday nights, leaving Stratford at 23.15 or so. It's been cut back to Banbury since May; I'm not sure whether this is a permanent cut.

There is still a 0040 Chiltern service from Oxford to Banbury, M-F. Nothing in the other direction, as far as I can see.

 

[Springs Branch]

Was there ever a period post-privatisation when Northern's Ellesmere Port/Helsby trains ran only between those points? (i.e. didn't have any passenger-carrying trips extended beyond Helsby to/from Warrington or Lime Street)

Also, the old summer Saturday Chester - Halton curve - Runcorn parliamentary used to be the single Northern train which served Runcorn, all onward connections being with other TOCs (of course, this train did "touch" Northern's network at Chester, although IIRC it did not stop at Helsby or Frodsham).