Trivia: Train types where significant withdrawals took place before the last ones were built

[Journeyman]

I'm sure you get what I mean here, but I'm not sure I can think of any specific examples in the world of rail. Are there any classes built over a long period of time, which had multiple withdrawals before the last ones were delivered?

Only example I can think of is in the bus world - London Transport withdrew the final pre-war RT buses just as the final post-war ones were delivered, and at no point were all the RT family in service all at once. Any rail examples?

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Class 66. 66522 written off before the last new builds were delivered. Exports of DB and Freightliner examples plus imports of GBRF examples means that the complete class has never been working on Network Rail.

 

[Journeyman]

Class 66. 66522 written off before the last new builds were delivered. Exports of DB and Freightliner examples plus imports of GBRF examples means that the complete class has never been working on Network Rail.

I think accident write-offs before deliveries are complete are quite common, even extreme examples like that class 70 that got dropped during unloading, but I'm not sure they count as significant withdrawals. They usually only number a handful of examples.

But yeah, it's interesting how many 66s ended up overseas fairly quickly, and a lot of them were exported while new ones were still arriving.

 

[Speed43125]

The LNWR Improved Precedent Class, and the odd other Webb design get close, with those having the first squadron withdrawals commencing in 1905, with the last not being deliver until late 1901.

 

[43096]

The LNWR Improved Precedent Class, and the odd other Webb design get close, with those having the first squadron withdrawals commencing in 1905, with the last not being deliver until late 1901.

Class 14 would come into the reckoning on a similar basis.

 

[py_megapixel]

The 707s are perhaps the most extreme example of something a little different from what OP asks, but still worthy of note.

Replacements for the entire fleet were ordered before the first unit had finished pre-delivery testing!

 

[3141]

Only example I can think of is in the bus world - London Transport withdrew the final pre-war RT buses just as the final post-war ones were delivered, and at no point were all the RT family in service all at once. Any rail examples?

I think you're right that the whole of the RT class were never in service all at once, but a small number of pre-war RTs were transferred to the Country Area for use on a route with a bridge that had a weight restriction, and continued running after the last of the post-war examples had been delivered.

 

[Arrpi87]

Only example I can think of is in the bus world - London Transport withdrew the final pre-war RT buses just as the final post-war ones were delivered, and at no point were all the RT family in service all at once. Any rail examples?

Also, in aviation... the Airbus A380. Currently being dumped by a fair few airlines before Emirates gets the final ones in the manufacturing backlog.

 

[Journeyman]

Also, in aviation... the Airbus A380. Currently being dumped by a fair few airlines before Emirates gets the final ones in the manufacturing backlog.

True - I suspect most of them will get scrapped. The 747 is an endangered species too, there's only a tiny handful left in passenger service now, and production is about to end.

I think you're right that the whole of the RT class were never in service all at once, but a small number of pre-war RTs were transferred to the Country Area for use on a route with a bridge that had a weight restriction, and continued running after the last of the post-war examples had been delivered.

That was only seven out of a hundred and fifty, though!

 

[Cowley]

How about the humble mk1? The last ones were built for the REPs in 1974 but I’m pretty sure that some railways were already running early versions by then?

 

[Journeyman]

How about the humble mk1? The last ones were built for the REPs in 1974 but I’m pretty sure that some railways were already running early versions by then?

I did think that - almost all the non-gangwayed ones had gone by then, as had a number of the early catering vehicles, including the ones with anthracite fuelled ovens. The initial designs, with windows mounted from inside the vehicle, were much more prone to corrosion, and a lot of them were withdrawn early due to being vacuum braked and steam heat only.

 

[Cowley]

I did think that - almost all the non-gangwayed ones had gone by then, as had a number of the early catering vehicles, including the ones with anthracite fuelled ovens. The initial designs, with windows mounted from inside the vehicle, were much more prone to corrosion, and a lot of them were withdrawn early due to being vacuum braked and steam heat only.

Definitely. At the Mid Hants in the early 90s we had a few of the (slightly rotten) earlier windowed versions still, but I’m not sure when they were purchased other than the mid 70s. There must have been other established lines that had mk1s earlier than that though. Maybe the North Yorkshire Moors or Severn Valley?

 

[Journeyman]

Definitely. At the Mid Hants in the early 90s we had a few of the (slightly rotten) earlier windowed versions still, but I’m not sure when they were purchased other than the mid 70s. There must have been other established lines that had mk1s earlier than that though. Maybe the North Yorkshire Moors or Severn Valley?

I'm sure a lot of railways that started running in the late sixties and early seventies must have had at least a few Mark 1s - some led fairly short lives, and by that time there weren't many pre-nationalisation vehicles left to choose from. Only the very early heritage railways, like the Bluebell, managed to nab those in large numbers, at least in anything like decent condition.

 

[etr221]

I believe the first of the GWR Castle class (albeit rebuilt Stars) locos were withdrawn before the last Castles were built.

Also the first LMS Stanier 8F 2-8-0s were withdrawn - for war service, and transfer to the WD - before the last were built; I don't know whether there were other classes in similar situation, with locos sold out of service.

And in China, I think the late built steam engines (classes QJ, SY, etc.) were built after withdawal (and scrapping) of the early examples had begun.

 

[xotGD]

Tornado was built after the rest of the class were withdrawn.

(Sorry)

 

[norbitonflyer]

I think you're right that the whole of the RT class were never in service all at once, but a small number of pre-war RTs were transferred to the Country Area for use on a route with a bridge that had a weight restriction, and continued running after the last of the post-war examples had been delivered.

The last DMS entered service in 1978, less than a year before mass withdrawals started. There were a few odd ones withdrawn even earlier.

 

[pdeaves]

Class 66. 66522 written off before the last new builds were delivered. Exports of DB and Freightliner examples plus imports of GBRF examples means that the complete class has never been working on Network Rail.

Again, a 'one off' rather than planned fleet withdrawal, but I think at least one class 47 had a similar history; damaged in an accident and withdrawn before production finished. BR never had all 512 (?) class 47s at once.

 

[Cowley]

Again, a 'one off' rather than planned fleet withdrawal, but I think at least one class 47 had a similar history; damaged in an accident and withdrawn before production finished. BR never had all 512 (?) class 47s at once.

Yes that’s right, D1671 Thor, D1734 and D1908 were all withdrawn in 1965 a good couple of years before the last of the class were built.

 

[Journeyman]

I just realised the Pendolino written off at Greyrigg also fits into this - the 11-car extensions and extra units were built afterwards.

 

[Jamesrob637]

7 series Shinkansen. A700s are now in production and most of the original 7-series are gone. Believe inroads are being made now into the earliest N700s also.

 

[norbitonflyer]

(EDIT) Deleted as Put on wrong thread in error

 

[E27007]

The LNWR Improved Precedent Class, and the odd other Webb design get close, with those having the first squadron withdrawals commencing in 1905, with the last not being deliver until late 1901.

There were steam locomotives scrapped at LNWR Crewe, due to a senior officer with a major grudge, issuing malicious instructions to condemn locomotives not life-expired, simply present at the Works for overhaul, his activity was not discovered for a considerable time. It may have been those Precedent locomotives you refer to.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Again, a 'one off' rather than planned fleet withdrawal, but I think at least one class 47 had a similar history; damaged in an accident and withdrawn before production finished. BR never had all 512 (?) class 47s at once.

In writing about 66522 I was well aware it was a one off write off following a tragic accident. The locos exported by DB and Freightliner , however, are also withdrawn in so far as they are no longer running on Network Rail metals.

 

[43096]

In writing about 66522 I was well aware it was a one off write off following a tragic accident. The locos exported by DB and Freightliner , however, are also withdrawn in so far as they are no longer running on Network Rail metals.

As a point of pedantry, it was 66521 involved at Great Heck, not 66522.

 

[hst43102]

7 series Shinkansen. A700s are now in production and most of the original 7-series are gone. Believe inroads are being made now into the earliest N700s also.

The Japanese Shinkansen trains are very interesting - a lot seem to get replaced and withdrawn at 12-15 years old. New high speed trains every 12 years can't even be dreamed of here!

 

[webbfan]

There were steam locomotives scrapped at LNWR Crewe, due to a senior officer with a major grudge, issuing malicious instructions to condemn locomotives not life-expired, simply present at the Works for overhaul, his activity was not discovered for a considerable time. It may have been those Precedent locomotives you refer to.

That was Trevithick, grandson of famous Trevithick and son of Trevithick the ex-loco superintendent of LNWR Northern Division. Think he was the works manager under Whale. Went round condemning Webb Compounds whenever saw one in the works. Curious as believe he was a friend of Webb. Unfortunately he scrapped them too soon and left a crisis from shortage of locomotives. Said to have cost him the CME job when Whale retired.

 

[USRailFan]

The Japanese Shinkansen trains are very interesting - a lot seem to get replaced and withdrawn at 12-15 years old. New high speed trains every 12 years can't even be dreamed of here!

SNCF expected the first TGVs to last about 25 years in service. They are now approaching 40...
DB expected the ICE-1 to be in service for 15 years. They are now approaching 30...

 

[43096]

DB expected the ICE-1 to be in service for 15 years. They are now approaching 30...

...and are just starting a further refurb/life extension overhaul to take them through for another 10 years.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The Southern Railway's 3SUB/ 4SUB stock was built in many separate batches between 1914 and 1949*. Many of the older ones were withdrawn during the 1930s and 1940s, often having major components, such as underframes, incorporated in newer ones. (these underframes were often relatively new, as they in turn had been built to carry superstructures recycled from hauled stock)

*Yes, I know the Southern Railway did not exist in either 1914 or 1949.

 

[Journeyman]

The Southern Railway's 3SUB/ 4SUB stock was built in many separate batches between 1914 and 1949*. Many of the older ones were withdrawn during the 1930s and 1940s, often having major components, such as underframes, incorporated in newer ones. (these underframes were often relatively new, as they in turn had been built to carry superstructures recycled from hauled stock)

*Yes, I know the Southern Railway did not exist in either 1914 or 1949.

Many of the EPBs were built using recovered components and underframes as well - apparently there were LSWR axleboxes knocking about until well into the 90s!