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UK cut off from EU, due to concerns over new Coronavirus strain

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Richard Scott

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When you think of the thousands of years of human evolution, it is only since the mid 1800s that any of us have had life expectancies beyond 40 years of age.
So if you want to go let it rip because the human species has adapted and generated its own immunity to other viruses before, then fine, but I am not sure how many of the over 40s on this forum would be happy with that. Equally as someone who is soon to cross the 'close to 30' / 'close to 40' boundary, i don't know how happy I feel about being classed as the village elder yet.

*please note. This post is to be taken with a truckload of salt. I know there are plenty of people on here will shoot back that I am scaremongering by saying everyone over 40 is at risk. I am not, I am taking a very silly point made by someone else and running with it.
You can have your opinion it's a silly point, no it isn't. The point was the human race has survived for many years, wasn't saying anything about life expectancy, that wasn't the point. Life expectancy hasn't just increased due to vaccinations but many things such as better sanitation, clean water etc.
Please don't be so rude in future.
 
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birchesgreen

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A big factor behind the increase in life expectancy in the last few centuries is the reduction in childhood mortality.
 

LOL The Irony

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I see the WHO have actually said that this mutation is no cause for alarm. Wonder what next move is now for all these countries including our own?
Accuse the WHO of being the Tory party's puppet.

Seems the fashion atm.
I'm starting to think Trump had the right idea about the WHO (though probably not for quite the same reasons...)
Reminder that the WHO didn't give COVID-19 it's actual name of SARS because they didn't want to upset the East Asian community & to appease China and I really wish I was making that up. The entire UN is an unfunny joke at this point. The feelings of people and the appeasement of China was given a higher priority than the safety aspect.

The WHO writes on its website that it steers clear of SARS-CoV-2 because “using the name SARS can have unintended consequences in terms of creating unnecessary fear for some populations, especially in Asia which was worst affected by the SARS outbreak in 2003.”
 
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Afraid it comes down to survival of fittest. Also thought plague was bacterial so vaccination wouldn't touch it anyway?


It could well have been, think how slowly original virus spread in first few months. It takes a while to get going and it had to get past some who'd already contracted another strain, limiting its initial spread?
Typhoid, Tetanus, TB and plague are also bacterial infections that have vaccines.

The age factor is a big one, and most likely quite significant if not the most significant (obesity is also one of the strongest correlations I've seen in this pandemic, but there is more obesity in parts of Africa than many realise). But the point I'm making in this context is that I find it profoundly disturbing that what is basic undergrad immunology is being turned on its head, not just by governments' declarations, but by the World Health Organisation, with no evidence whatsoever that is is only from vaccination.

If it was the case that an individual does not get immunity from catching COVID, there would be tons of reinfections now, as I said.

Does everybody remember getting the Heaf Test prior to having their BCG for TB? This was to see if you'd been exposed to TB infection or not; if you had, you didn't need the BCG. It's always been the case, and by changing the science with no evidence my distrust in what is going on goes ever higher. I've always had it down to simple incompetence, but there are so many signs now it is actually more than that. It's getting worrying indeed.

The WHO have not said individuals who have recovered from the virus don’t get immunity, they said you can’t get herd immunity through letting it flow through the population. Despite the claims if others on here, we have never achieved herd immunity against a pandemic strain through natural infection - it will always burn out in a given population before the threshold is reached thereby allowing for further sporadic outbreaks from being reimported.
 
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The Ham

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When you think of the thousands of years of human evolution, it is only since the mid 1800s that any of us have had life expectancies beyond 40 years of age.
So if you want to go let it rip because the human species has adapted and generated its own immunity to other viruses before, then fine, but I am not sure how many of the over 40s on this forum would be happy with that. Equally as someone who is soon to cross the 'close to 30' / 'close to 40' boundary, i don't know how happy I feel about being classed as the village elder yet.

*please note. This post is to be taken with a truckload of salt. I know there are plenty of people on here will shoot back that I am scaremongering by saying everyone over 40 is at risk. I am not, I am taking a very silly point made by someone else and running with it.

A big factor behind the increase in life expectancy in the last few centuries is the reduction in childhood mortality.

Indeed, it's not that uncommon to find out about older people in history, it's just that having half your children not make it to their 5th birthday drags the average age down a LOT.

If half of all people make it 5 and the other half make it to 75, the average age is 40.

Reduce infant mortality to 40%, with everyone else reaching 75 and average ages jumps to 47.
 

6862

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Despite the claims if others on here, we have never achieved herd immunity against a pandemic strain through natural infection - it will always burn out in a given population before the threshold is reached thereby allowing for further sporadic outbreaks from being reimported.

In other words, effective herd immunity is reached.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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French have agreed to allow movement to resume subject to travellers having a negative Covid test

https://www.gouvernement.fr/partage...ni-vers-la-france-sous-condition-sanitaire-de

In French but salient points courtesy of Google Translate

In view of this context, from midnight on 22 December, only the following categories of people will be authorized to travel to France or to transit there from the United Kingdom:
French people and nationals of the European Area;
British or third country nationals who are either habitually resident in France, in the European Union or in the European Area, or must make essential travel as listed in the annex.
And you need a test undertaken less than 72hrs before you travel
In the absence of a PCR test, those antigenic tests which are sensitive to the VUI-2020-12-01 variant, the list of which will be published by the Ministry of Solidarity and Health, will be authorized.
Not clear whether a lateral flow test or not is considered acceptable as doing PCR tests will take sometime especially as the labs are under severe strain in SE with tests taking upto 48hrs or more already.

Going to take a while to shift those lorries out of Manston EDIT: Road freight movement requirements still to be advised
 

The Ham

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The reason that we've picked up that there's a new strain within the UK is because we've been doing testing on the genetic makeup of the virus.


Two items of note:
- the UK had done half of the trading on the genetic makeup of Covid-19
- Wales had done more in the last week than France had done since the start of the Pandemic

Given those stats is it any surprise that the UK has found out about this new strain and France has no idea whether closing their boarders to us is only stopping what's already come from them coming back or if they're slowing down a new version making it to their shores which they've not seen before.
 

Cletus

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No hope of clearing that many of the lorries through Dover. The main roads are full. The roads in the town are filling up with local traffic. There’s also loads of lorries leaving their unofficial parking spaces and heading for the docks.

Plus, ferries usually finish early Christmas Eve and never sail Christmas Day.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Not quite sure what you’re getting at in this post. By ‘Essential supplies’, those lorries bring over more than just niceties.

They will more likely contain things for the "just in time" supply chain we take for granted.
Things like UK components for EU-built cars, and of course vice versa.
 

DB

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No hope of clearing that many of the lorries through Dover. The main roads are full. The roads in the town are filling up with local traffic. There’s also loads of lorries leaving their unofficial parking spaces and heading for the docks.

Plus, ferries usually finish early Christmas Eve and never sail Christmas Day.

Perhaps they will make an exception this year and run the ferries over Christmas?
 

DB

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Depends on whether you can 'persuade' enough ferry and port staff to make it viable.

Probably worth the government contributing to increased overtime pay, given that this mess has been caused by the PM's incompetence.

A better use of money than half price meals, anyway...
 

yorksrob

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Given the lack of events at the moment, you'd have thought there'd be enough spare portaloos and mobile catering facilities to give the lorry drivers some decent food and facilities. They were reporting that some only got a cereal bar all day yesterday.
 

Ianno87

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Given the lack of events at the moment, you'd have thought there'd be enough spare portaloos and mobile catering facilities to give the lorry drivers some decent food and facilities. They were reporting that some only got a cereal bar all day yesterday.

Right.... who is delivering the food exactly and where is it coming from....?
 

Cletus

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Perhaps they will make an exception this year and run the ferries over Christmas?

Most crews work week-on-week-off so they will be onboard, but whether enough of the port employees will work is unlikely.
 

Mike395

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Given the lack of events at the moment, you'd have thought there'd be enough spare portaloos and mobile catering facilities to give the lorry drivers some decent food and facilities. They were reporting that some only got a cereal bar all day yesterday.
Re catering - some food vans local to Manston did exactly that at the lorry park - apparently toilets was the bigger issue, KCC were having issues sourcing them at short notice.
 

trebor79

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Most crews work week-on-week-off so they will be onboard, but whether enough of the port employees will work is unlikely.
Well Kent is Tier 4, so the temptation of the Christmas Day bonus will be much easier to take this year!
Re catering - some food vans local to Manston did exactly that at the lorry park - apparently toilets was the bigger issue, KCC were having issues sourcing them at short notice.
I saw an ITV news report where the local Sikh had provided 800 hot meals for some of the lorry drivers. I'm not usually one to get all misty-eyed over such things but it was lovely to see people just treating other people and people and not getting into arguments over sovereignty, borders and a few fish.
 

Cletus

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Getting to the port could be a problem unless the traffic clears.
 

yorksrob

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Right.... who is delivering the food exactly and where is it coming from....?

I'm sure if the Government can plan operation stack, they can arrange some bacon and runny-egg butties.

Re catering - some food vans local to Manston did exactly that at the lorry park - apparently toilets was the bigger issue, KCC were having issues sourcing them at short notice.

At least they tried anyway.
 

Ianno87

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I'm sure if the Government can plan operation stack, they can arrange some bacon and runny-egg butties.

Operation stack basically involves chucking some cones across the M20 and using pre-installed signage and is very well-rehearsed and used from time to time.

Arranging a vast amount of food in an already disrupted supply chain at a time of high demand is a different matter.
 

yorksrob

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Operation stack basically involves chucking some cones across the M20 and using pre-installed signage and is very well-rehearsed and used from time to time.

Arranging a vast amount of food in an already disrupted supply chain at a time of high demand is a different matter.

There'll be someone wanting the overtime.
 

carriageline

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The lorry drivers have started protesting, and have now blocked the Thanet Way (the main road into/out of Thanet, and more importantly Manston)

 

Nicholas Lewis

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Given the lack of events at the moment, you'd have thought there'd be enough spare portaloos and mobile catering facilities to give the lorry drivers some decent food and facilities. They were reporting that some only got a cereal bar all day yesterday.
Manston was supposed to be equipped to provide a holding point for lorries post 1.1.21 so ought to have been ready to go!
 

jon0844

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Am I the only one to note that all the attention has been on European lorry drivers trying to leave the UK, carrying food to Europe? There has been no mention at all about trucks trying to enter the country with our essentiial supplies of Hungarian cheddar, without which our Christmases will be ruined ....

The problems caused by the French closing their border afflicts France and other countries in Europe. But not the UK. Except, if it continues another week, we may run out of fresh strawberries in January :o

At this time of year, more than half of fresh produce is imported so how is this not affecting us?

Sure, they CAN come over here without any restriction but why would they? To spend days trying to get back?

There's also an assumption that these are all foreign lorries, that don't pay road tax (!) and we would rather do without. Forgetting that many are British drivers who went out with goods and intended to come back with others. Maybe they did come back, but they won't do another round trip anytime soon.

I see the Daily Express has gone for the assumption that ALL of the lorries are in fact British and that the EU just wanted to spite us.

So which is it? All British drivers being blocked from going to the continent, or nasty foreign drivers unable to get home - but hey, not our problem.
 

yorksrob

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Manston was supposed to be equipped to provide a holding point for lorries post 1.1.21 so ought to have been ready to go!

Indeed. Plus it used to be an airport until recently, so should have some facilities.

I expect the bigger problem was for lorries stacked up on the motorway.
 

Ianno87

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Indeed. Plus it used to be an airport until recently, so should have some facilities.

I expect the bigger problem was for lorries stacked up on the motorway.

Hasn't been an airport since 2014. Whatever facilities there are will need a bloody good clean.
 

alex397

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The scenes from Dover (and Folkestone and Manston) look very chaotic this morning. It’s going to be hard work for many to resolve this.
 
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