Unbelievable, Entitlement at its worst... (couple refuse to move out of clearly reserved seats)

[SteveP29]

Not sure if this is in the right section, apologies if not.

https://twitter.com/Manda_like_wine/status/1186574340541825024

If a mum with 3 kids and bags has 4 reserved seats for a long train journey, and you're sitting in their seats on a full carriage, don't tell them that their tickets don't matter in a posh voice and then say you're not moving and refuse to make eye contact. Don't be these people.
My 12yo is just staring this woman down.
A kind man offered me his seat. Spoke to conductor who was calm, lovely, and apologetic, said that instead of engaging with them that he was going to move us to an empty table in first class. I grabbed our bags and turned to the couple and said, with a smile, 'enjoy your seats!'
I would always give up a seat, reserved or not, for someone wo needed it more. But for her to tell me that my tickets meant nothing and then refuse to acknowledge me? Do people just expect you to slink away?
I'm already being told off for posting a picture over an 'everyday occurrence'. But isn't that the point? It only continues to be an everyday occurrence as long as people don't get called out for their pathetic behaviour. I'm sick of protecting assholes.
My kids just told me that while they were sitting across from the couple the woman said to her husband, loud enough so the kids would hear, that 'even when we take first class people don't give up their seats, you take what's there.' In case you felt sorry for them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks like the reservations were placed, so they should have shifted. It doesn't overly matter *who* she is.

 

[rs101]

Love the photo of the 12 year old staring at them! Can't believe people are defending the older couple on Twitter - they had no right whatsoever to those seats.

Hopefully, the sight of the 4 being upgraded to first class is enough to annoy the seat stealers too.

 

[Ianno87]

Look at the state of the couple. Looks like they haven't had a day of joy since about 1978.

 

[GarethW]

Ah Twitter always a good comedy fest.

 

[Tetchytyke]

One where the guard ought to get the chip and PIN out and charge Mr and Mrs Mogadon the byelaw penalties printed on the reservation label.

I'm six foot and 16 stone, I'd have just sat on his knee.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One where the guard ought to get the chip and PIN out and charge Mr and Mrs Mogadon the byelaw penalties printed on the reservation label.

That could be a shortcut to assault, though probably not in this case. That said, I could be tempted to support the idea that refusing to move from a reserved seat when not holding the reservation should be a Penalty Fares matter - going through the Courts for it is just a bit awkward.

 

[Belperpete]

One where the guard ought to get the chip and PIN out and charge Mr and Mrs Mogadon the byelaw penalties printed on the reservation label.

I'm six foot and 16 stone, I'd have just sat on his knee.

Can't you ask to see their tickets, then tear the tickets in half saying that they are no longer valid as they have broken the terms and conditions, then treat them as travelling without valid tickets?

 

[Tetchytyke]

That said, I could be tempted to support the idea that refusing to move from a reserved seat when not holding the reservation should be a Penalty Fares matter

The Byelaws have the stated penalty for a reason. For someone like this, whacking out the notepad and demanding details would focus their minds.

The real scrotes would have just removed the reservation labels!

 

[gordonthemoron]

I never have this problem in Germany. das sind unsere sitze works every time

 

[Monty]

I never have this problem in Germany. das sind unsere sitze works every time

I don't know if it's just me but I get the impression that society in Britain in the last 15 years or so has devolved to the attitude of 'Do as you please and damn how anyone else feels about it'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't know if it's just me but I get the impression that society in Britain in the last 15 years or so has devolved to the attitude of 'Do as you please and damn how anyone else feels about it'.

I think you're right, and part of that is that guards now seem, with some exceptions, impotent to do anything about any problems, fearing assault on themselves.

Germany of course has always had a more collectivist culture.

 

[Camden]

I remember that story about that posh bearded man from Islington, a while back. Wouldn't pay for a first class ticket and made a big show about sitting on the floor or something.

There's always more to a story than what you read on vile ol Twitter or Fakebook.

 

[superjohn]

I never have this problem in Germany. das sind unsere sitze works every time

From what I’ve seen, Germans can be alarmingly obsessive about seat reservations. I’ve been on German trains that were less than a quarter full and non stop to their final destination and watched people walking up and down rows of empty seats looking for one that the display says is available.

 

[duffield]

Ideally it would be something like this from the guard after checking relevant tickets if not already done: "Sir, Madam, These seats are reserved, please move elsewhere". "We're not moving". "Ok, fine, the British Transport Police will meet you at [appropriate location]", then head to cab with clear implication you will be contacting them. I would imagine that this would have got them to shift in 95% of cases, and there doesn't appear to be any likely risk of assault in this particular case.

However, I can entirely understand why guards don't want to risk it. But making into a "I'm not going to try move you, it's your choice to wait for the BTP" case would concentrate their minds.

I realise the BTP would be unlikely to *actually* be able/willing/available to involve themselves in this sort of incident most of the time.

 

[al78]

Can't believe people are defending the older couple on Twitter - they had no right whatsoever to those seats.

I can. There seems to be an attitude amongst a significant subset of the population that looks upon old people as holier than thou, they can do no wrong, and because they have existed on the planet for a bit longer than everyone else, they can do what they like and everyone else has to bow down to them*. Sometimes, people will make excuses for older people doing things they shouldn't, where if it were a young person, they would bring the hand of God down on them.

*Probably a form of over-compensation for the negative biases older people have to deal with.

 

[al78]

I don't know if it's just me but I get the impression that society in Britain in the last 15 years or so has devolved to the attitude of 'Do as you please and damn how anyone else feels about it'.

A subset of it is like that, and always has been. Projection and victim blaming are often used by the perpetrators to try and justify their actions.

Part of the problem is that there is frequently no comeback for poor behaviour and inflicting costs on other people, so they get away with it repeatedly, to the point where they develop an entitlement to carry on behaving that way. It then becomes near impossible to stop it. If people recognised there was a significant risk of having their nose broken when they acted like an arsehole, I bet it would be less frequent in society.

Barbarians can be better behaved that the civilised, because they know they risk having their skull split open if they anger someone.

 

[Ivor]

Ideally it would be something like this from the guard after checking relevant tickets if not already done: "Sir, Madam, These seats are reserved, please move elsewhere". "We're not moving". "Ok, fine, the British Transport Police will meet you at [appropriate location]", then head to cab with clear implication you will be contacting them. I would imagine that this would have got them to shift in 95% of cases, and there doesn't appear to be any likely risk of assault in this particular case.

However, I can entirely understand why guards don't want to risk it. But making into a "I'm not going to try move you, it's your choice to wait for the BTP" case would concentrate their minds.

I realise the BTP would be unlikely to *actually* be able/willing/available to involve themselves in this sort of incident most of the time.

My experience of the BTP is I’ve only called them once one evening a few weeks whilst working solo at a station & was being seriously threatened by two drunk idiots (I only called as I really thought I was going to get done) took me an age to get through, I was isolated on the opposite platform to my office so couldn’t even get there, after said travellers cleared off on a train an hour later BTP phoned me to ask “has it died down now? We didn’t have the manpower to get to you”

What? Told them what to do & I would never call them again, other colleagues on occasion have had similar experiences when they were needed.

As useful as a chocolate teapot!

 

[Comstock]

Of course the *real* problem is our overcrowded railways. If there were enough seats to go around, there would be many fewer situations like this

 

[Ivor]

I don't know if it's just me but I get the impression that society in Britain in the last 15 years or so has devolved to the attitude of 'Do as you please and damn how anyone else feels about it'.

So true!

 

[Bald Rick]

Does this make them Remoaners?

 

[yorkie]

Here's a bizarre comment:
https://twitter.com/BayonetStrumpet/status/1186590069907427328

It's bizarre that the train staff didn't shuffle these people for you. I'd have thought that was the sort of thing they get paid for.

I didn't find it "bizarre" at all! I thought the way the Guard handled it, by upgrading them to 1st class, was brilliant.

I recall @Flamingo telling us at a pub near Maesteg a few years ago about an occasion when he did likewise, making a big point to the miscreants that the other passengers were being upgraded.

Can't you ask to see their tickets, then tear the tickets in half saying that they are no longer valid as they have broken the terms and conditions, then treat them as travelling without valid tickets?

Not a practicable solution.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Here's a bizarre comment:
https://twitter.com/BayonetStrumpet/status/1186590069907427328

I didn't find it "bizarre" at all! I thought the way the Guard handled it, by upgrading them to 1st class, was brilliant.

I recall @Flamingo telling us at a pub near Maesteg a few years ago about an occasion when he did likewise, making a big point to the miscreants that the other passengers were being upgraded.

Assuming it was done in the couple's face rather than on the quiet, a wonderful piece of British passive-aggression - but it did mean the couple could keep the seats...

 

[507021]

Can't believe people are defending the older couple on Twitter - they had no right whatsoever to those seats.

Completely agree.

 

[Bald Rick]

Assuming it was done in the couple's face rather than on the quiet, a wonderful piece of British passive-aggression - but it did mean the couple could keep the seats...

Perhaps that’s the answer to a free upgrade if you are travelling with your parents - put them in your seats and get them to be truculent.

 

[lordbusiness]

We've not had reservations on GA for a few months now- something to do with the new trains and to be honest it's much better!

No 'You're sitting my seat'
No confused looking passengers wandering around looking for their reservations and getting in everyone's way.
Passengers just get on- find a seat that suits and sit down. No bother.

It does make you wonder.

 

[Trainfan344]

Yes working a lot better recently. Do we need reservations?

 

[gazzaa2]

Ideally it would be something like this from the guard after checking relevant tickets if not already done: "Sir, Madam, These seats are reserved, please move elsewhere". "We're not moving". "Ok, fine, the British Transport Police will meet you at [appropriate location]", then head to cab with clear implication you will be contacting them. I would imagine that this would have got them to shift in 95% of cases, and there doesn't appear to be any likely risk of assault in this particular case.

However, I can entirely understand why guards don't want to risk it. But making into a "I'm not going to try move you, it's your choice to wait for the BTP" case would concentrate their minds.

I realise the BTP would be unlikely to *actually* be able/willing/available to involve themselves in this sort of incident most of the time.

Do guards really fear assault all the time or do many just not want the confrontation? A couple of pensioners aren't intimidating physically.

 

[Peter C]

Look at the state of the couple. Looks like they haven't had a day of joy since about 1978.

And I don't think today was a day of joy for them either - they probably don't like taking other's seats and feel really sad and guilty - oh wait....

-Peter

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I don’t support the older couple for a moment. If someone has reservations they are entitled to them in the first instance. Reservations belong to those who reserve them, and are theirs to give away as they see fit, or not!

However I am also of the opinion that a nominal charge for a reserved seat, say £1, would encourage those who don’t want to move, to do so. Particularly the older generation, who tend to respect paid ownership. ‘Excuse me, I paid to reserve this seat’ tends to carry more perceived moral weight than just ‘Excuse me, I reserved that seat’ (for free).

Not how it should be, but it would be a simple improvement. Doubtless some may disagree.