• Dear Guest, and welcome to RailUK Forums. Our non-railway discussion forums are currently restricted until members have five or more posts, and you will not be able to make a new thread or reply to an existing one in this section until you have made five or more posts elsewhere on the forum.

Underground station closures and service reductions

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
4,632
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51946409

Nine stations are currently closed but commuters have been advised to check the TfL website in case more are shut. Transport for London (TfL) announced there would be a partial shutdown of the network from Thursday morning. Additionally, there will be no night Tube and bus services will also be reduced, TfL said.
Beginning on Friday, the Waterloo and City line will shut completely and from Monday TfL said it would gradually reduce other parts of its network.

Understandable, not been on the Tube this week but I imagine it's a LOT quieter than normal. The article lists the stations facing closure
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Dstock7080

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2010
Messages
2,010
Location
West London
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/p...services-to-support-london-s-critical-workers

Additionally no Night Overground from this weekend
Until further notice, on Friday and Saturday nights there will be no all-night 'Night Tube' service or the all-night 'Night Overground' service that currently runs on the East London line. This is to ensure the resilience of the regular Tube and Overground services. Late services on both the Tube and Overground will continue to run for essential journeys.
 

Lewlew

Member
Joined
15 Oct 2019
Messages
335
Location
London
How did they choose the '9'?
Depends on how many staff they have available. Each station is part of a group, with staff only working within that group. If a group is low on staff numbers then they will close the quieter stations to send staff to the busier stations to keep them open.
 

evergreenadam

Member
Joined
23 Nov 2013
Messages
209
Is the staffing allocation to stations served only with lifts normally higher than those without?

From a public health point of view operating stations only served by lifts would expose the public to greater risk unless social distancing is enforced within lift cars, which in turn reduces the capacity of the station and therefore the efficient use of staff.
 

bluegoblin7

Member
Joined
10 May 2011
Messages
1,084
Location
JB
Is the staffing allocation to stations served only with lifts normally higher than those without?

From a public health point of view operating stations only served by lifts would expose the public to greater risk unless social distancing is enforced within lift cars, which in turn reduces the capacity of the station and therefore the efficient use of staff.

No. Despite many, many posts claiming that these are "all of the" or "primarily" lift-only stations that isn't the case. Whilst there is sound reasoning for social distancing, it's also not within the spirit of keeping things running to block off the entire network to anybody who has to use a lift and make an essential journey. The stations chosen are lesser-used/non-interchanges and are to allow staff to be focussed at busier/more important "Section 12" stations.


At the time that post was made only 9 stations were closed; many of the 40 given opened as normal this morning. All are expected to be closed tomorrow if not already; this list will rise as further staff become unavailable for work.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
4,632
No. Despite many, many posts claiming that these are "all of the" or "primarily" lift-only stations that isn't the case. Whilst there is sound reasoning for social distancing, it's also not within the spirit of keeping things running to block off the entire network to anybody who has to use a lift and make an essential journey. The stations chosen are lesser-used/non-interchanges and are to allow staff to be focussed at busier/more important "Section 12" stations.



At the time that post was made only 9 stations were closed; many of the 40 given opened as normal this morning. All are expected to be closed tomorrow if not already; this list will rise as further staff become unavailable for work.
It does seem that lift only stations are often the first ones to close. In most cases they are the quieter ones, but not always. For example they closed Hampstead (lift) rather than Belsize Park (escalator)
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
18,665
Location
0035
It does seem that lift only stations are often the first ones to close. In most cases they are the quieter ones, but not always. For example they closed Hampstead (lift) rather than Belsize Park (escalator)
Belsize Park is a lift station as well.

The decision to close stations today and going forward is solely a decision based on staff availability determined on the day.

The station closures announced in the press release overnight have been announced to provide a bit more consistency for at least the short term rather than having random stations opened and closed throughout the day as and when staff become available.
 

Dstock7080

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2010
Messages
2,010
Location
West London
Lines (except Waterloo & City) will be gradually moving onto a maximum 15tph DAILY central area service, except later start/early finish Sundays, a plan which has been agreed with the Trade Unions.

The H&C Circle are the first to migrate onto a restricted service of 5tph on each, 27 train service. (Circle operating traditional circle service)
 
Last edited:

Lewlew

Member
Joined
15 Oct 2019
Messages
335
Location
London
Bakerloo has been running an enhanced special service since 11am yesterday.

2 x trains running Harrow - Queen's Park (reversing at Kilburn High Road)

Minimum 12 x trains (15 in the peaks) running Queens Park - Elephant. At the moment, this is a bit higher but will vary depending on driver availability. But if 12 trains aren't available then will suspend the service.
 

JackS

Member
Joined
23 Jun 2017
Messages
9
Location
Edgware
It does seem that lift only stations are often the first ones to close. In most cases they are the quieter ones, but not always. For example they closed Hampstead (lift) rather than Belsize Park (escalator)

Belsize Park is a lift station as well.

I would think that the company would aim to keep at least one of Hampstead or Belsize Park open owing to proximity to the Royal Free Hospital and ensuring that key workers can get there. Of the two, Belsize Park has higher passenger figures. As has been said, I don't think lifts or no lifts are factoring into the decisions.
 

westv

Established Member
Joined
29 Mar 2013
Messages
3,280
Does all this increase the risk of overcrowding for those that may be unable to work from home?
 

Dstock7080

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2010
Messages
2,010
Location
West London
Does all this increase the risk of overcrowding for those that may be unable to work from home?
There are very few passengers travelling and this is to assist with the great reduction in staff available both at stations and train staff
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
4,632
Belsize Park is a lift station as well.

The decision to close stations today and going forward is solely a decision based on staff availability determined on the day.

The station closures announced in the press release overnight have been announced to provide a bit more consistency for at least the short term rather than having random stations opened and closed throughout the day as and when staff become available.

Sorry, not sure why I thought Belsize Park was a lift station :oops:

The Northern Line has a high number of lift stations on it, especially on the Edgware Branch due to the depth of the platforms and presumably not being busy enough to require rebuilding with escalators. I remember during the fire brigade dispute a few years ago all the lift stations were shut, meaning that on a journey between Golders Green and Tottenham Court Road, FIVE stations were shut, Hampstead, Belsize Park, Chalk Farm, Mornington Crescent and Goodge Street.
 

Dstock7080

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2010
Messages
2,010
Location
West London
Not sure if it's quite matching demand at the moment though - reports of the Victoria line being crowded this morning.
Of 41 trains scheduled for Victoria Line peak service this morning, 21 trains were cancelled because of trainstaff unavailability, hence the need to reduce the service provided.
 

rebmcr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
3,526
Location
Cambridge
The closed stations broadly being "the ones with lifts" isn't the reason, but it's not coincidence either — they're simply not among the busy stations.

The same lack of patronage which makes escalator conversion less likely, also makes closure more likely.
 

leytongabriel

Member
Joined
27 Jan 2013
Messages
287
Feel the Victoria line is coming off badly here. Blackhorse Rd and Pimliico are miles busier than a lotof outer suburban stations. Media reports say they closed stations with no underground interchange. But what about intermodal - Manor House is a major bus interchange station and Blackhorse Rd is THE intemediate interchange station for the Gospel Oak - Barking overgrond line.

Would it be too much to ask for staff to be transferred between lines so a more sensible list of stations closures could be drawn up, not just based on internal operating station groups which have no relevance to the travelling public?
 

bluegoblin7

Member
Joined
10 May 2011
Messages
1,084
Location
JB
No. Because that requires training and familiarisation, which requires more staff, and also puts more staff at risk because of having to have more people nearer together.

I don't think it's too much to ask for Goblin travellers to interchange elsewhere (South Tottenham, Walthamstow) at street level, especially as people should only be making essential journeys. People really, really need to stop thinking about themselves and start looking at the bigger picture.

The Tube is running out of staff. We are running what we can. And if too many staff get sick, there'll be no Tubes at all. For some lines, that could happen if as little as one person is unable to work. And if that person commutes by transport...?
 

westv

Established Member
Joined
29 Mar 2013
Messages
3,280
Apparently more pictures of rammed services on Twitter this morning.
 

BJames

Member
Joined
27 Jan 2018
Messages
813
Apparently more pictures of rammed services on Twitter this morning.
Just seen this article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52003076
London Underground passengers have been crowding onto Tube trains, despite warnings to limit non-essential travel.

Images from Monday's rush hour show busy carriages, which unions say left staff feeling "furious" as it rendered social distancing "impossible".

London Mayor Sadiq Khan has urged workers to stay at home and said public transport should be used only by key workers otherwise "people will die".

Some passengers have said a reduced service means trains are busier.

Aslef union's district organiser Finn Brennan tweeted: "Still heavy loading on some Tube lines this morning making social distancing impossible.

"This is endangering the health of the vital workers who have to use the system."

He called on the government to act, adding: "I'm being sent pictures of crush loaded platforms at some Jubilee line platforms this morning.

"Drivers and other frontline staff are furious."

Transport for London (TfL) said there had been a 70% fall in the number of passengers on the Tube network during the week and a 40% fall in bus use across its network.

There was also an 87% fall in Tube passengers at the weekend compared to the same time last year.

However, some commuters have complained trains have become busier.

One key worker, a nurse who asked to remain anonymous, said it was "a lot busier" during her journey on the District Line compared to in the past week.

She said she felt "more concerned" travelling because fewer services meant there were "more people in a confined space".

Mr Khan said: "Londoners should not be travelling by any mode of transport unless it is absolutely necessary, and only critical workers should be using public transport."

He added: "TfL will continue to do everything it can to provide a safe service, but like many organisations it is dealing with rising absence levels and needs Londoners co-operation in these challenging times."

Mick Cash, general secretary of the Rail, Maritime and Transport union, said: "There is still enormous personal pressure on the Tube workforce who are exposed to levels of social contact that the government say are unacceptable for the wider public.

"The only people using our transport services should be essential workers who have to travel."

I worry that the service has been reduced too much at this stage - I know we need to discourage people from travelling but those that have to travel will travel - and it's not being made safe enough for them.
 

Dstock7080

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2010
Messages
2,010
Location
West London
I worry that the service has been reduced too much at this stage.
Not sure how you propose to increase services when the staff available is dropping dramatically every day.
Just 7 trains available on the whole Victoria Line.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
4,632
Not sure how you propose to increase services when the staff available is dropping dramatically every day.
Just 7 trains available on the whole Victoria Line.

But WHY are Victoria Line drivers all so unavailable?

Overall the number of people having to completely self isolating due to symptoms is still fairly low, and tube drivers are hardly in the front line of essential workers likely to catch the virus, as they have no contact with the public (unlike say shop workers). Indeed station staff or bus drivers would be more likely to be infected
 

Dstock7080

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2010
Messages
2,010
Location
West London
But WHY are Victoria Line drivers all so unavailable?
For the same reasons as the rest of the population!
- they may have recently returned from a location abroad
- have family members who are self isolating
- be in close contact with other staff, taxis etc (now limited to two persons each)
- touch equipment used by others (no gloves or hand sanitiser provided)

of 15 driving staff required at my depot yesterday evening, 1 booked on
 

bluegoblin7

Member
Joined
10 May 2011
Messages
1,084
Location
JB
Just wait until everyone suddenly discovers that service control staff exist and are also affected. Controllers in particular are a very finite pool. No controller, no service.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
5,116
For the same reasons as the rest of the population!
- they may have recently returned from a location abroad
- have family members who are self isolating
- be in close contact with other staff, taxis etc (now limited to two persons each)
- touch equipment used by others (no gloves or hand sanitiser provided)

of 15 driving staff required at my depot yesterday evening, 1 booked on

If that was normal the country would be collapsing - so what is special about these drivers’ circumstances? Did they all touch one thing infected and not wash their hands?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top