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Unpaid Ticket Became Court Case; Need to Travel to US urgently

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throwaway-0703

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I received a ticket sometime in November 2019 listed as "traveling without having a valid ticket". (I think I must have bought the wrong ticket or had a ticket without my railcard or something; I don't remember the ticket.) The ticket was sent to my old uni address and I never got the ticket notification. I never got ANY notifications of this ticket or follow up notices.

It went to court in March 2020. I was convicted in absentia and then they sent a follow up notice to the old address which I didn't get. When they dug into my background for enforcement of the fine, they found my new address, and I ended up getting a "Further Notice" to pay the fine at the end of August. I saw this notice last Friday and immediately paid the court fine + fees (which were around 300 quid) on Friday Sept 4.

My charge/offense is officially listed as a "Railways Byelaws offence" violating Byelaw 18[1], 24 of the Railway Bye laws made under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Strategic Railway Authority and confirmed under section 20 of the Transport Act 2000.

I called the courts Monday Sept 7 and found out about the penalty and court case. Today I filed a Statutory Declaration to "reset" the clock as I had no idea about the court case or proceedings until this Monday.

I have 3 main Questions:
1) I am a US citizen and lost my job in the UK (my Tier 2 Visa will expire soon) and need to return the US for family reasons/job reasons/visa reasons. Can I travel either with this charge or an open court case? I have paid the fine (which will be refunded once the case opens).
2) Has anyone here successfully convinced the prosecution to withdraw their suit? What is my best option to not having a criminal charge?
3) If the conviction holds, will this show up in an American or Canadian job background check? How long until it is "spent" from a DBS check?
 
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Blinkbonny

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It really isn't very clear what you're saying. "Travelling with a valid ticket" is hardly a crime.

You then go on to use the word "ticket" in two different ways. I don't follow and suspect others won't either.
 

Tetchytyke

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You were caught without a valid ticket and were prosecuted. You paid the fine then submitted a statutory declaration. This was accepted.

This resets the clock back to immediately just before the prosecution started. The TOC which prosecuted you might agree to an out-of-court settlement. They might not. If they don't you will usually receive a Single Criminal Justice Procedure notice. If you agree you are guilty you can plead guilty by post and you can provide details of your income.

I would suggest you keep the TOC and Court updated with your address.

Without knowing the details of the offence I can't be 100%, but it's likely to be a Byelaws offence, which is not a recordable offence. It won't show up on a standard DBS check but might show up on an enhanced DBS check. I wouldn't recommend not mentioning a conviction on official forms, but it's unlikely to cause an issue.
 

Bletchleyite

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Without knowing the details of the offence I can't be 100%, but it's likely to be a Byelaws offence, which is not a recordable offence. It won't show up on a standard DBS check but might show up on an enhanced DBS check.

Byelaw offences don't show up on any kind of DBS check. It'd only come up if you did something more involved like went for DV clearance for Government work.
 

philthetube

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I think the fact that you are off to America makes it likely that the TOC will be interested in an out of court settlement.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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I am a US citizen and lost my job in the UK (my Tier 2 Visa will expire soon) and need to return the US for family reasons/job reasons/visa reasons. Can I travel either with this charge or an open court case?
You're a US citizen and this is a very minor crime on the scale of things, so I don't see any reason why you should be unable to return to the US. You might be unable to get another visa to return to the UK after you're back in the US, depending on what the outcome of this matter is, but that is something for you to discuss with your immigration adviser at the time.

Has anyone here successfully convinced the prosecution to withdraw their suit? What is my best option to not having a criminal charge?
Out of Court settlement of railway irregularities is common practice. Usually, the longer things have dragged on, the more costly it will be for you, as the TOC will expect you to pay any outstanding fare in addition to their alleged costs of dealing with the matter. You would want to grovel and ask the relevant Prosecutions/Revenue Protection Office to pay a settlement.

However, it is unclear why you did not receive any correspondence relating to this matter - unless you perhaps gave a false address when spoken to. If this is the case, the TOC may be less inclined to settle with you (and if they do, it will tend to cost you more) as it is a further offence to do this. Also you refer to "ticket" in multiple contexts - we don't have "tickets" for infractions of the law in the same way they do in the US. So "ticket" could mean multiple things here, and it would be useful if you could clarify exactly what you were issued with at the time of the journey in question.

If the conviction holds, will this show up in an American or Canadian job background check? How long until it is "spent" from a DBS check?
It's unlikely that a US or Canadian background check would involve checking your criminal history in a foreign country, but that will probably depend on how detailed the check is. Certainly, over here you would have to be going for quite a high level of checking for that to be revealed.

Byelaw offences (which are strict liability, i.e. your intent is irrelevant, as in for example "travelled without a valid ticket") are spent after 1 year just as with more serious Regulation of Railways Act offences ("travelled without previously having paid the fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof"). However they are not routinely added to criminal records databases, unlike RoRA offences, so there would be a difference between the answer to "do you have a criminal record" and "do you have any unspent convictions".
 

some bloke

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This is a minor matter which shouldn't ordinarily have any effect on your employment.

It may be that the company would have been open to a settlement, and only prosecuted because they thought you were failing to respond.

You can contact the company saying you will travel and would like to settle. If you post a draft on here people can comment. The company will want to make sure the verdict is void, but it might not do any harm to let them know in advance that you've made the declaration and are seeking a settlement.

What is my best option to not having a criminal charge?

Probably to hire an expensive solicitor, but you may not think that's appropriate, and you might be able to get a settlement anyway.

The websites of these organisations may be of interest, both of which have helplines:


They may be able to direct you to similar organisations in the US and Canada.
Can I travel either with this charge or an open court case?
If it's a single justice procedure, the defendant can choose to plead guilty and have the case decided on the papers rather than attending court. Was there a single justice procedure notice last time? If so, the statutory declaration resets the situation to the time just after the defendant responds to it (ie gives notice of a plea).

If it was an SJPN, have you given notice of a plea with the declaration? Technically you would have to do this at the same time to get the conviction voided.

How long until it is "spent" from a DBS check?

Byelaw offences don't show up on any kind of DBS check.
It would show up:

1) if the conviction were added to the Police National Computer
a) because it was at the same time as a conviction for a "recordable" offence (which doesn't apply here), or
b) by mistake,

or

2) if a local police force for some reason happened to know about the conviction and decided it should be disclosed for an enhanced DBS check (which might be unlikely as it won't usually show much about unfitness to be employed).
 
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throwaway-0703

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Out of Court settlement of railway irregularities is common practice. Usually, the longer things have dragged on, the more costly it will be for you, as the TOC will expect you to pay any outstanding fare in addition to their alleged costs of dealing with the matter. You would want to grovel and ask the relevant Prosecutions/Revenue Protection Office to pay a settlement.

However, it is unclear why you did not receive any correspondence relating to this matter - unless you perhaps gave a false address when spoken to.

Byelaw offences (which are strict liability, i.e. your intent is irrelevant, as in for example "travelled without a valid ticket") are spent after 1 year just as with more serious Regulation of Railways Act offences ("travelled without previously having paid the fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof").

Thank you for the detailed response!
1) It is a "Railways Byelaws offence" violating Byelaw 18[1], 24 of the Railway Bye laws made under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Strategic Railway Authority and confirmed under section 20 of the Transport Act 2000.

2) Do I need to hire a solicitor to settle out of court? What is the best way to convince the prosecutions/revenue protection office to pay a settlement?

3) The person writing down the penalty ticket on the train asked for my ID to get my name; I had an old ID with my old address on back, that's all I can think of for why my OLD address was given. The ticket was issued in 2019 and I lived at the old address from 2017-2018.



The TOC which prosecuted you might agree to an out-of-court settlement. They might not.

What is the best way to get TOC (one of the railway companies) to agree to an out-of-court settlement?

Probably to hire an expensive solicitor, but you may not think that's appropriate, and you might be able to get a settlement anyway.

The websites of these organisations may be of interest, both of which have helplines:


Is there any solicitor or firm people would recommend? How is BSB?
Also, thank you so much for these helpful links!
 
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some bloke

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A solicitor wouldn't necessarily make a difference to whether you get a settlement, though either the fact of their involvement or something they can come up with or express in a different way as a reason for settlement may help. Whether you hire a solicitor in the hope of increasing your chances, and at what stage, depends on your circumstances and priorities.

Many threads on here involve people obtaining settlements with advice from members of the forum. The company may react more favourably if someone appears to be genuinely saying they understand that this is a serious matter as companies lose a lot of money from people not paying the right amount, and that they will take more care in future. As suggested above, going abroad may also be relevant.

But people aren't average. If it's very important to you not to have a minor conviction then you may feel it's best to try and play it safer.

Did the court staff give an indication of how long it would take for the court to void the verdict?

Was there a single justice procedure notice last time? ...If it was an SJPN, have you given notice of a plea with the declaration? Technically you would have to do this at the same time to get the conviction voided.
If you're not sure, you can ask the court staff. The requirement is in "How to use this form" on the declaration form.

If you're keen to hire a solicitor, it may be that you have more success with one who specialises in "fare evasion", though you can expect their rates to be significantly more expensive.

yorkie said:
I recommend Penman Sedgwick based purely on the experience of other forum members. I have no connection with this company and have not met them personally.



An alternative is to find a solicitor dealing with general criminal matters. Solicitors may offer free initial consultations - you can ask about this when you call.

 
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WesternLancer

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Thank you for the detailed response!
1) It is a "Railways Byelaws offence" violating Byelaw 18[1], 24 of the Railway Bye laws made under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Strategic Railway Authority and confirmed under section 20 of the Transport Act 2000.

2) Do I need to hire a solicitor to settle out of court? What is the best way to convince the prosecutions/revenue protection office to pay a settlement?

3) The person writing down the penalty ticket on the train asked for my ID to get my name; I had an old ID with my old address on back, that's all I can think of for why my OLD address was given. The ticket was issued in 2019 and I lived at the old address from 2017-2018.





What is the best way to get TOC (one of the railway companies) to agree to an out-of-court settlement?



Is there any solicitor or firm people would recommend? How is BSB?
Also, thank you so much for these helpful links!
Obv there is a lot of detailed advice on here to follow. But given your timescale I'd suggest a simpler effort to solve the situation at this stage - ie writing to the train operating company concerned seeking a prompt financial settlement- giving the basis of the story you have posted here, your current correct address, explain what you have done vis a vis the court - let them know you are soon to leave the country as your visa will expire (give them a follow up address in the USA if you can, shows good will) - say you are anxious to settle the matter.

Apologize for the problems caused, express regret for having the wrong ticket, mention that you had not sought to avoid their efforts at previous actions but due to a move of address had not received the original correspondence.

Make sure they also have an e-mail address etc so they can contact you when you leave the country easily.

Be prepared to pay the settlement if they offer one from the USA, in order to avoid court action.

If none of this works and it goes to court, come back here for more advice (or follow up on suggestions up thread).

Ref your Q2) Personally I doubt you need to hire a solicitor to do the above at this stage to try to get an out of court settlement. So long as you can write clearly, concisely and accurately you might as well try writing yourself, but if you are unsure about it maybe you can engage one as they will be more used to writing the sort of letter you need sent.

* They took down an out of date address form old ID you offered them, which did not help, and maybe they did not clarify the address accuracy with you or you did not pro-actively tell them the correct address. That didn't help but I doubt any benefit now from getting into that. It does not sound as if you deliberately sought to mislead them over the address, sounds like more of a mix up. If you did of course it will look as through you tried to 'throw them off your trail' which of course does not help you now they have located you. But I think best not to get drawn into that at this stage.

* When you write to them e-mail but also send a registered posted copy (sent at a post office), keep copies, receipt and proof of postage etc.

* When you leave the UK I would advice setting up a Royal Mail postage divert to your new address in USA, or if that is not easy, to a trusted friend's address in the UK with a clear agreement that your friend will open your post and scan it to you in USA, or post it on. See Royal Mail website for setting up that service, maybe for up to 6 or 12 months. This is because you can not be certain that court or train prosecution department would only contact you by e-mail.

Good luck and hope this advice is of help.

If you want to draft an anonymised letter to the Train company and post it on here people will comment with advice on your draft I am sure.
 
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Fawkes Cat

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1) I am a US citizen and lost my job in the UK (my Tier 2 Visa will expire soon) and need to return the US for family reasons/job reasons/visa reasons. Can I travel either with this charge or an open court case?
It doesn't seem easy to find an answer to this question. There are two elements to it - whether the UK government will allow you to leave the country, and whether the US government will allow you in when you get home. I believe that the answer to both parts of the question is 'probably, yes', but you may want to check. I can't help with who to ask for the 'can you leave the UK' bit, but for entering the US it seems to me that you should check with your embassy.
 

najaB

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@WesternLancer has given a very comprehensive answer, all I will add is that there is no reason that you wouldn't be able to travel with this matter outstanding since the UK doesn't do checks on exit and as a US citizen you have automatic right of entry. There's a slight possibility that it might affect future UK visa applications, with emphasis on slight.
 

jumble

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@WesternLancer has given a very comprehensive answer, all I will add is that there is no reason that you wouldn't be able to travel with this matter outstanding since the UK doesn't do checks on exit and as a US citizen you have automatic right of entry. There's a slight possibility that it might affect future UK visa applications, with emphasis on slight.

Indeed I would be astonished if a UK immigration officer was in the slighted bit interested in a Byelaw breach conviction unless it was part of a bigger picture
 
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