Unusual Reason for Delay?

[D6130]

Must have been a bit close to the CATenary for comfort!

 

[jopsuk]

And that caused a delay...?

Just move the train. Tiddles will soon decide it’s better to come down.

cats are unpredictable. If it doesn't jump down very soon after the train starts to move, then jumping (or falling) quickly becomes unsurvivable

Now, obviously trains are involved in fatal collisions with small animals all the time. And that's just accepted, and frankly rightly so. The driver has no agency in such situations. But moving a stationary train with an animal known to be perched on top is different- at that point the driver is opening themselves to accusations of causing harm to the animal through recklessness or worse.

Far better and less open to prosecution, especially at that time of night and with the current limited passenger numbers, to do as was done here and rustle up a spare train, use that to depart a few minutes late and deal with the cat(under an electrical isolation? Can that be done for separate platforms/pairs of platform track?

 

[Intermodal]

Not sure why the train was delayed due to a cat that’s definitely not in the rules

It certainly is in the rules! Have a look at what G1 says about an insecure load

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Yes, it was!

Apart from that incident, it was a good trip, I liked the transport museum they took us to.

(It was lucky that someone spotted the cat on the above mentioned train at Euston.) This incident has just been mentioned on the Radio 2 breakfast show.

 

[class ep-09]

Few years back in on GWML near West Ealing pigeon short-circuited the OLE with pedestrian over-bridge just west of that station, causing the concrete that was making the walking deck to break and fall on to the line ( that is what I heard on a day being stuck at Paddington) .

Reason for delays ( massive) :

exploding pigeon

 

[2192]

Would the cat not have moved with a blast of something electrically safe from a fire extinguisher?

 

[yorkie]

Would the cat not have moved with a blast of something electrically safe from a fire extinguisher?

What?

 

[D365]

Would the cat not have moved with a blast of something electrically safe from a fire extinguisher?

Nobody's going to be spraying anything at a cat...

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Few years back in on GWML near West Ealing pigeon short-circuited the OLE with pedestrian over-bridge just west of that station, causing the concrete that was making the walking deck to break and fall on to the line ( that is what I heard on a day being stuck at Paddington) .

Reason for delays ( massive) :

exploding pigeon

Seem to recall that the aftermath of that unusual incident was featured on an episode of "Paddington Station 24/7".

Hopefully evening rush hour commuters were not badly delayed by the incident, as otherwise invariably seems to be the case on this particular programme!

 

[Spartacus]

What?

Pretty much what I thought!

Had a few interesting ones, guide dog falling between the train and the platform edge, unattended herd of cows using a level crossing (think that hay have gone down as crossing misuse as although the barriers were open they didn't phone ), an alpaca being struck by a train, and a beaver being electrocuted by the 3rd rail!

 

[py_megapixel]

What?

I think @2192 is asking whether attacking it using a fire extinguisher would have been considered as a means to remove the cat.

I would assume not, because they are equipment reserved for use on fires, and I wouldn't expect staff to be allowed to just squirt them at anything they felt like...

 

[island]

And social media would take a rather dim view…

 

[EbbwJunction1]

And social media would take a rather dim view…

Not to mention the cat .... !

It just goes to show that you never own a cat, you're only it's servant! A cat will always do what it wants to do, and will treat you with complete contempt (and very sharp claws) if you try to do something to it that it doesn't like.

It seems to me that the staff did the right thing at Euston ... the later delay isn't relevant to that.

 

[O L Leigh]

it is fairly obvious: you might get it in the neck for upsetting the kids seeing a cute cat getting zapped with 25kv!

What kids at 2230 in the middle of a national lockdown?

Far better and less open to prosecution

Prosecution for what?

By all means make reasonable efforts to dislodge the cat before departure but I'm not sure that it merits delaying the train's departure. That cat is not in distress up there and is not in need of rescuing, and it is certainly capable of getting itself down from that position. If it's anything like my neighbour's cat (and it's behaviour certainly suggests it is) it just likes being up in an elevated position where it can watch the comings and goings, but as soon as it's position becomes untenable it will decide for itself that it's time to move.

My own suspicion is that this isn't the first time that cat has been up on a train roof but merely the first time it's been reported.

I would get it in the neck if I cautioned a train for a dog or a cat

Is that right? I'd certainly report a dog loose on or near the line on the basis that they tend to be hotly pursued by their owner in a misguided attempt to get the dog back under control.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

What kids at 2230 in the middle of a national lockdown?

By all means make reasonable efforts to dislodge the cat before departure but I'm not sure that it merits delaying the train's departure. That cat is not in distress up there and is not in need of rescuing, and it is certainly capable of getting itself down from that position. If it's anything like my neighbour's cat (and it's behaviour certainly suggests it is) it just likes being up in an elevated position where it can watch the comings and goings, but as soon as it's position becomes untenable it will decide for itself that it's time to move.

My own suspicion is that this isn't the first time that cat has been up on a train roof but merely the first time it's been reported.

I think that you ignore the power of social media, here. However unlikely due to the time (but we do know that there were passengers around), it would have only taken one person who thought that it would be a good idea to film it and then put it on Facebook etc. to produce all manner of problems.

I think that you're right about what the cat was thinking; I've seen them in places where you ask "Why are they there and how did they get there?", but they think that it's a quite natural thing to do.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Can someone advise the clearance between the top of a carriage and the catenary? A cat standing on its four feet is about 9" high to the top of its ears, and one can add another 9" or so if it puts its tail up in the air. Might there have been some danger of the Euston Tabby getting to close to the wire?

 

[Spartacus]

It just goes to show that you never own a cat, you're only it's servant! A cat will always do what it wants to do, and will treat you with complete contempt (and very sharp claws) if you try to do something to it that it doesn't like.

I dunno, ours likes to have some cuddles before bed, but all we've to tell is it's it's time to get some sleep and he'll jump up and go out.

I'd certainly report a dog loose on or near the line on the basis that they tend to be hotly pursued by their owner in a misguided attempt to get the dog back under control.

That's the one, you don't caution for dogs, but you can caution in case the owner is pursuing them. I've had to give a few nudges towards some people saying they think the owner must be about.

Looking at it by numbers, we had a brief tripping on the up slow in the Cricklewood area about 9:45 this morning and it's caused more passenger delay than the cat did (and neither's a lot), chances are it might have caused rather more had it tripped the overheads at Euston.

Can someone advise the clearance between the top of a carriage and the catenary? A cat standing on its four feet is about 9" high to the top of its ears, and one can add another 9" or so if it puts its tail up in the air. Might there have been some danger of the Euston Tabby getting to close to the wire?

Clearance all depends on location, but pigeons have often been known to bridge the gap where it's low due to overhead structures.

 

[Ediswan]

Can someone advise the clearance between the top of a carriage and the catenary? A cat standing on its four feet is about 9" high to the top of its ears, and one can add another 9" or so if it puts its tail up in the air. Might there have been some danger of the Euston Tabby getting to close to the wire?

I don't see any wires in the original photo, do they run to the end of the platform ? Maybe the cat knows this.

 

[edwin_m]

I don't see any wires in the original photo, do they run to the end of the platform ? Maybe the cat knows this.

If they didn't then locomotive haulage would be difficult! From orientation of the platforms I think this is the "country" end of the train but I'm not certain.

With Euston having been re-built in the 1960s I suspect the OLE is set at a preferred rather than the absolute minimum height.

 

[zwk500]

If they didn't then locomotive haulage would be difficult! From orientation of the platforms I think this is the "country" end of the train but I'm not certain.

With Euston having been re-built in the 1960s I suspect the OLE is set at a preferred rather than the absolute minimum height.

From the orientation of the PIS display, and the snapshot of OTT, it looks to be end nearest the buffers. And yes, the OLE looks to be at the normal height rather than being crammed in close. In the photo it's difficult to see (if it even is in shot, I can't tell) because it's the same colour as the upper part of the roof.

 

[Intermodal]

Police deliberately ran over and killed dog running loose on A55

North Wales Police said the foxhound had been running loose on the A55 at varying locations between the Llanfairfechan roundabout and the Conwy tunnel early on Monday morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Couldn't they just kill the cat like North Wales Police did with a dog on the motorway?

 

[zwk500]

Police deliberately ran over and killed dog running loose on A55

North Wales Police said the foxhound had been running loose on the A55 at varying locations between the Llanfairfechan roundabout and the Conwy tunnel early on Monday morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Couldn't they just kill the cat like North Wales Police did with a dog on the motorway?

Totally different situation. The train was stationary, the cat wasn't creating a harmful situation, and the passengers were able to be transferred to an alternative train without a big issue. A dog loose on a 70mph carriageway is creating a constantly changing situation with the potential for multiple deaths any second.

There was no need to hurt the cat, so why suggest actively seeking to hurt it? Would you have given the order to kill it if you were the Station supervisor/train service manager?

 

[Intermodal]

Would you have given the order to kill it if you were the Station supervisor/train service manager?

North Wales Police didn't seem to have a problem giving the order!

 

[O L Leigh]

I think that you ignore the power of social media, here. However unlikely due to the time (but we do know that there were passengers around), it would have only taken one person who thought that it would be a good idea to film it and then put it on Facebook etc. to produce all manner of problems.

Alternatively, maybe I'm putting the reach and influence of social media back into it's proper context. There's nothing in this situation that a suitably contrite statement couldn't have dealt with. However, I maintain that the cat would have moved of it's own volition, so all you would have got is a video of it running down the windscreen and jumping to safety from there.

Might there have been some danger of the Euston Tabby getting to close to the wire?

Theoretically, yes. However, it got up there safely enough so I imagine it wasn't really at any great risk. Yes it's a 125mph train and yes there's 25kV AC up there, but realistically the cat would have been able to look after itself. It's just fodder for making a nice fluffy, feel-good story.

 

[DarloRich]

It's just fodder for making a nice fluffy, feel-good story.

Agreed - they have generated a nice happy story and avoided very bad PR by offing a cute cat. is that a so bad?

 

[zwk500]

North Wales Police didn't seem to have a problem giving the order!

As I said, it was a completely different situation. It was a choice between the dog or a multi-car pile up. I'd probably prefer, on balance, to clear up 1 dog than the occupants of 5 cars & lorries.

This was a train going empty to depot. If it had happened in a pre-covid rush hour, then maybe after half an hour the staff could have got more desparate, but given the disruption it was actually causing to kill the cat would have been totally disproportionate.

 

[O L Leigh]

Agreed - they have generated a nice happy story and avoided very bad PR by offing a cute cat. is that a so bad?

There's a whole spectrum of possible outcomes, only a very few of which involved the cat being "offed".

The aforementioned cat that belongs to my neighbour went through a very brief phase of sitting on the roof of my car. I gave it a nasty fright on one occasion and it hasn't done it since. Maybe the cat at Euston needs a similar fright to stop it climbing trains.

 

[millemille]

Somewhere, right now, a pair TOC and NR delay attribution clerks are arguing the merits of whether the cat was a migratory or domestic cat and what its paw span was.....

 

[Energy]

Not sure why people are getting so annoyed, they transferred to a different train and got a couple minute delay, not a massive problem. A high speed cat on the roof has the chance of damaging the train

 

[ainsworth74]

I think we're done here. I found it to be quite an amusing story overall and there's certainly no need for any aggro over it. If there are any wider operational questions about how the railway deals with animals I'd suggest starting a new thread otherwise I don't think there's anything else to add.