Vaccine passport disaster in Scotland

[danm14]

I dont know how someone could alter a QR code but when I read on that BBC article that people were able to alter their file ie PDF

PDF files, like any other file, are inherently editable. There's nothing anyone can do about it.

I could edit my bank statement to show that I live elsewhere or have more money. I could edit my exam results sheet to show that I've passed an exam I've failed.

Documents can be forged, it's part of life. We mitigate against it where it's relevant by including means of verification - such as seals, watermarks, or in this case a QR code.

 

[kez19]

PDF files, like any other file, are inherently editable. There's nothing anyone can do about it.

I could edit my bank statement to show that I live elsewhere or have more money. I could edit my exam results sheet to show that I've passed an exam I've failed.

Documents can be forged, it's part of life. We mitigate against it where it's relevant by including means of verification - such as seals, watermarks, or in this case a QR code.

Indeed it is part of life but it’s something that governments need to be on top on, as said back a bit it’s open to hackers.

 

[danm14]

Indeed it is part of life but it’s something that governments need to be on top on, as said back a bit it’s open to hackers.

Can you propose a way in which the government could even begin to make a document which can be printed on a home printer, but that none of the words can be changed on it?

It's not something they can "be on top of". It's not hacking, it's literally changing words on a page. There is no conceivable way you can stop it.

Though to be honest, there is actually one easy way to prevent this from happening for sure - scrap the godforsaken things! I certainly wouldn't shed any tears if they did.

 

[35B]

Indeed it is part of life but it’s something that governments need to be on top on, as said back a bit it’s open to hackers.

Which is why you should beware what you ask for. The technical fix is to insist on electronic only passes that can’t be edited, and which can be validated when scanned. That has a number of implications, and some may well think the cure worse than the disease.

 

[kez19]

Which is why you should beware what you ask for. The technical fix is to insist on electronic only passes that can’t be edited, and which can be validated when scanned. That has a number of implications, and some may well think the cure worse than the disease.

I get that but I’m not advocating having these passports for this very thing - I’m pretty much against it all but as the saying goes “be careful for what you wish for”

Yet these are things you expect Governments themselves to know or have knowledge and ways to fix and combat issues.

Can you propose a way in which the government could even begin to make a document which can be printed on a home printer, but that none of the words can be changed on it?

It's not something they can "be on top of". It's not hacking, it's literally changing words on a page. There is no conceivable way you can stop it.

Though to be honest, there is actually one easy way to prevent this from happening for sure - scrap the godforsaken things! I certainly wouldn't shed any tears if they did.

Again just to reiterate my point here I’m against these things in the first place.

Regarding the whole home printer setup thing, can it not be set up as read only? I don’t know the technicalities in this I’m not that much clued up on all this tech but at least trying to understand it all.

Going back on “hacking” but isn’t that what governments should be aware of looking out for? Isn’t that what cyber attacks are? Deface a site plant a logo and claim responsibility (or not?), wasn’t there not something in the news maybe 2-3 years ago about The National Grid could be opened to hackers if they are not on top of the situation? It shouldn’t matter regardless be an app/website etc the businesses that run it or the Governments involved should be looking at combating these things than expect something to appear and then say whoops didn’t see that coming? It’s personal data it’s my data it should be protected to the highest level of degree not thrown around elsewhere where leaks can happen etc.

 

[takno]

Regarding the whole home printer setup thing, can it not be set up as read only? I don’t know the technicalities in this I’m not that much clued up on all this tech but at least trying to understand it all.

No. There isn't anything that could be done along these lines. At the end of the day it's just a bunch of small dots on a page.

Movies and other content use a bunch of fancy tech like DRM and HDMI to protect the image right the way from the streaming company servers to your TV, but you can still get a very solid HD copy just by pointing your camera at the screen.

We don't have the same technology for protecting print, and introducing it would involve fundamental changes to the way printers work. Even if this was done and the document was somehow tamper-proof, you could pretty easily just scan it back in and modify the scanned copy.

What protects these paper copies is that there is qr code which contains the same information as is printed on the page. If the barcode is scanned and the information doesn't match, the person scanning it will know that you've committed fraud, which is a much more serious offence than breaching the restriction would be.

The qr code itself is signed using a government secret, and since nobody apart from the Scottish government has the secret, you can't just print your own barcode. Because of the maths used to create the secrets, it's possible to share a public code for each secret, which can be used by anybody to check whether the government signature in a qr code is valid.

All the validator apps have a big list of all the public codes for all the government secrets in Europe, so they can check any of the qr codes.

A couple of the secrets have leaked, but not from the UK governments. Where the secrets have leaked it would be possible to generate your own barcode and pretend to be from those countries. Since the reader app will typically tell the operator the country, and can be fairly easily modified to flag up if a barcode is signed by a leaked secret, it would be fairly reasonable for them to ask for some matching national ID from that country. Also again, if you are caught doing this, it is fraud which is a much more serious offence than breaching the covid restrictions would be.

In practice, if you can provide something which will scan, the majority of people won't give it a second glance and won't check it matches other ID, so you could probably just show a photocopy or screenshot of somebody else's pass. This would also be fraud etc...

None of which changes the fact that the whole thing is a monumentally pointless assault on basic rights, being forced on us by a morally bankrupt government on little more than a whim

 

[35B]

I get that but I’m not advocating having these passports for this very thing - I’m pretty much against it all but as the saying goes “be careful for what you wish for”

Yet these are things you expect Governments themselves to know or have knowledge and ways to fix and combat issues.

They do have ways to manage issues, as @takno outlines in his post. But what you're actually asking for is a level of security that doesn't exist for public facing online services, and where I suspect you (and most others contributing to this discussion) would be deeply uncomfortable about the implications if that level of security were to be applied.

I work on two rules in this kind of area. One is the "80-20 rule" - that you get 80% of the benefit from 20% of the effort, so getting the final thing perfect will take a disproportionately large effort. The second is that it's better to be roughly right than perfectly wrong. So, taking vaccine passports as an example, if you're going to implement them, it makes more sense to do so in a way that will work for the vast majority of people the vast majority of the time than to try to cater for every possible exception so there can be no cheating of the system. And, yes, that rule of thumb would include providing a straightforward way to allow foreign vaccine certificates to be registered to allow those people the same ability to attend events requiring passports as those who live locally.

 

[jumble]

They do have ways to manage issues, as @takno outlines in his post. But what you're actually asking for is a level of security that doesn't exist for public facing online services, and where I suspect you (and most others contributing to this discussion) would be deeply uncomfortable about the implications if that level of security were to be applied.

I work on two rules in this kind of area. One is the "80-20 rule" - that you get 80% of the benefit from 20% of the effort, so getting the final thing perfect will take a disproportionately large effort. The second is that it's better to be roughly right than perfectly wrong. So, taking vaccine passports as an example, if you're going to implement them, it makes more sense to do so in a way that will work for the vast majority of people the vast majority of the time than to try to cater for every possible exception so there can be no cheating of the system. And, yes, that rule of thumb would include providing a straightforward way to allow foreign vaccine certificates to be registered to allow those people the same ability to attend events requiring passports as those who live locally.

The flaw in cheat proof vaccine passports is that unless you have a cheat proof way of verifying identity then the vaccine passport could easily belong to someone else.
My friend has found a vaccination card in a public park.
They could present this in most venues in England who are bothered to prove exactly nothing except that they found and are using someone else's pass.
I am going to an event at the Excel soon
They require proof of double vaccination and claim that NHS Covid Pass will provide this
I am going to make a nuisance of myself and provide my vaccination card which clearly is proof and see what they do.
I will download the NHS pass in case they wont back down

 

[kez19]

They do have ways to manage issues, as @takno outlines in his post. But what you're actually asking for is a level of security that doesn't exist for public facing online services, and where I suspect you (and most others contributing to this discussion) would be deeply uncomfortable about the implications if that level of security were to be applied.

I work on two rules in this kind of area. One is the "80-20 rule" - that you get 80% of the benefit from 20% of the effort, so getting the final thing perfect will take a disproportionately large effort. The second is that it's better to be roughly right than perfectly wrong. So, taking vaccine passports as an example, if you're going to implement them, it makes more sense to do so in a way that will work for the vast majority of people the vast majority of the time than to try to cater for every possible exception so there can be no cheating of the system. And, yes, that rule of thumb would include providing a straightforward way to allow foreign vaccine certificates to be registered to allow those people the same ability to attend events requiring passports as those who live locally.

However let’s take a different scenario which I believe those at Westminster are excluded in having those very things present? So what makes our politicians and quite possibly those in media excluded from this but you or I must have one? That’s not a fairer society we are led to believe either? Come on now if they want this it must be applied everywhere then?

I’m uncomfortable in a sense where people were sold like cattle to take a vaccine and promised life would be normal but as usual with politicians and quite possibly “dark” forces yes let’s move these posts where the public “must” do things to guarantee a life back - turn this had this been the public turned this on the politicians I bet they be saying differently and cry human rights etc.

If this was really about public health they would know this but don’t, which if my own suspicion is right about this being all about control but when does the buck stop? Politicians work for the public not the other way

 

[35B]

However let’s take a different scenario which I believe those at Westminster are excluded in having those very things present? So what makes our politicians and quite possibly those in media excluded from this but you or I must have one? That’s not a fairer society we are led to believe either? Come on now if they want this it must be applied everywhere then?

I’m uncomfortable in a sense where people were sold like cattle to take a vaccine and promised life would be normal but as usual with politicians and quite possibly “dark” forces yes let’s move these posts where the public “must” do things to guarantee a life back - turn this had this been the public turned this on the politicians I bet they be saying differently and cry human rights etc.

If this was really about public health they would know this but don’t, which if my own suspicion is right about this being all about control but when does the buck stop? Politicians work for the public not the other way

Different parliaments set different rules. And unless those represented in those parliaments make their feelings clear to their representatives, those views won’t be represented.

As I live in England, I’ve no representative at Holyrood, so no standing to make a case. You, on the other hand, do.

 

[kez19]

Different parliaments set different rules. And unless those represented in those parliaments make their feelings clear to their representatives, those views won’t be represented.

As I live in England, I’ve no representative at Holyrood, so no standing to make a case. You, on the other hand, do.

Do I? Funny that to me politicians up north act the very same to those in the south, so I think not.

Do you honestly believe politicians regardless in the UK are going to stand up for you or I?, you do realise it’s all about money and that talks so I’m sorry but on this one I would hate to break the ice if you think politicians will stand up it’s delusional (all about them and their egos)

Still though be interesting to really find out why Bill Gates was in London last week for, I’m sure it wasn’t for Windows 11 but I see not much publicity on that situation either.

 

[MikeWM]

Do I? Funny that to me politicians up north act the very same to those in the south, so I think not.

It certainly is interesting that almost every country in the ('western') world has more-or-less-simultaneously decided that 'vaccine passports' are now necessary, despite all the evidence that they don't achieve anything to prevent the spread of a virus.

Before that almost every country decided more-or-less-simultaneously that masks were necessary, despite all the evidence that they don't achieve anything to prevent the spread of a virus.

Before that almost every country decided more-or-less-simultaneously lockdowns were necessary, despite no-one having even tried them before and with no particular evidence that they were necessary or would achieve anything.

Such synchronicity is... well, let's say rather unusual.

 

[kez19]

It certainly is interesting that almost every country in the ('western') world has more-or-less-simultaneously decided that 'vaccine passports' are now necessary, despite all the evidence that they don't achieve anything to prevent the spread of a virus.

Before that almost every country decided more-or-less-simultaneously that masks were necessary, despite all the evidence that they don't achieve anything to prevent the spread of a virus.

Before that almost every country decided more-or-less-simultaneously lockdowns were necessary, despite no-one having even tried them before and with no particular evidence that they were necessary or would achieve anything.

Such synchronicity is... well, let's say rather unusual.

or the other word which I initially laughed at but wonder now “lockstep” but it’s odd how all in sync but yet people (most) still blind to it but oh well - things will catch up eventually.

Also to add isn’t it strange I believe that Scotland extended its own “covid act” to about March 2022 just as Westminster did within the last few weeks? Surely that can’t be a coincidence?

UK Tabloid source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi...cs/mps-extend-covid-powers-march-25251887.amp

Scot Gov different source but is mentioned:

It just keeps going! - Coronavirus Extension and Expiry Bill passed | Brodies LLP

Brodies LLP offers clients the largest specialist legal resource in Scotland, with more practice areas and lawyers ranked top-tier in Scotland than any other firm.

brodies.com

Things that make you go hmmm?

 

[NorthKent1989]

It’s insane that aside from a few Republican states in the US, England is the last country in the Anglosphere at least that still hasn’t got vaccine passports, I hope it stays that way since passports are unnecessary.

 

[kez19]

It’s insane that aside from a few Republican states in the US, England is the last country in the Anglosphere at least that still hasn’t got vaccine passports, I hope it stays that way since passports are unnecessary.

You also have to remember that the MPs will be exempt at Westminster to have those on them regardless if it was implemented (again let’s break the illusion once and for all - passports for the likes of us (public), our MPs be in Westminster (for now), Holyrood or even Wales they’ll be exempt (I hope I am wrong on these assemblies but I probably be right)), and yet I’m to believe that these people are meant to represent us, so if an MP chaps your door to say do you agree with these things - you say no, will I get the police at the door or are MPs scared to do so as they expect backlash but plough on regardless?

As I say the trust of MPs (regardless of political party), let alone the media in all this has finally broken the illusion that everything is above board when it’s clearly not. Give COVID it’s due maybe the other purpose was to do exactly this - lose trust in things like media/politicians so that’s the only positive for me in all this.

 

[nlogax]

It certainly is interesting that almost every country in the ('western') world has more-or-less-simultaneously decided that 'vaccine passports' are now necessary, despite all the evidence that they don't achieve anything to prevent the spread of a virus.

I don't think it's anything unusual. Countries have always looked to other countries to learn how to run things in their own populations. In this case the big question seems to be 'how can we best be seen to be doing the right thing?'. Regardless of whether it's actually the right thing...

 

[35B]

Do I? Funny that to me politicians up north act the very same to those in the south, so I think not.

Do you honestly believe politicians regardless in the UK are going to stand up for you or I?, you do realise it’s all about money and that talks so I’m sorry but on this one I would hate to break the ice if you think politicians will stand up it’s delusional (all about them and their egos)

Still though be interesting to really find out why Bill Gates was in London last week for, I’m sure it wasn’t for Windows 11 but I see not much publicity on that situation either.

Well, we'd need to disagree on that view of politicians. As for Gates, you do know that the stories about him trying to control us are made up, don't you.

You also have to remember that the MPs will be exempt at Westminster to have those on them regardless if it was implemented (again let’s break the illusion once and for all - passports for the likes of us (public), our MPs be in Westminster (for now), Holyrood or even Wales they’ll be exempt (I hope I am wrong on these assemblies but I probably be right)), and yet I’m to believe that these people are meant to represent us, so if an MP chaps your door to say do you agree with these things - you say no, will I get the police at the door or are MPs scared to do so as they expect backlash but plough on regardless?

As I say the trust of MPs (regardless of political party), let alone the media in all this has finally broken the illusion that everything is above board when it’s clearly not. Give COVID it’s due maybe the other purpose was to do exactly this - lose trust in things like media/politicians so that’s the only positive for me in all this.

Parliamentarians are allowed to set their own rules because they are, by definition, lawmakers. There are plenty at Westminster who'd gladly make masks compulsory - but there aren't enough to force it. Which is also why English policy is much less restrictive than Scottish or Welsh policy, and leaves individuals to make decisions.

 

[NorthKent1989]

You also have to remember that the MPs will be exempt at Westminster to have those on them regardless if it was implemented (again let’s break the illusion once and for all - passports for the likes of us (public), our MPs be in Westminster (for now), Holyrood or even Wales they’ll be exempt (I hope I am wrong on these assemblies but I probably be right)), and yet I’m to believe that these people are meant to represent us, so if an MP chaps your door to say do you agree with these things - you say no, will I get the police at the door or are MPs scared to do so as they expect backlash but plough on regardless?

As I say the trust of MPs (regardless of political party), let alone the media in all this has finally broken the illusion that everything is above board when it’s clearly not. Give COVID it’s due maybe the other purpose was to do exactly this - lose trust in things like media/politicians so that’s the only positive for me in all this.

Covid has definitely broken what little, fragile trust the public had in the media and the politicians, possibly forever.

Anyone who believes at this point that politicians have our best interests at heart or who believes that the media is completely impartial is in for a major disappointment.

Too many people have bought into the fear and have given our freedoms over to the government on a gold platter.

 

[kez19]

Covid has definitely broken what little, fragile trust the public had in the media and the politicians, possibly forever.

Anyone who believes at this point that politicians have our best interests at heart or who believes that the media is completely impartial is in for a major disappointment.

Too many people have bought into the fear and have given our freedoms over to the government on a gold platter.

bang on the money!

Well, we'd need to disagree on that view of politicians. As for Gates, you do know that the stories about him trying to control us are made up, don't you.

Parliamentarians are allowed to set their own rules because they are, by definition, lawmakers. There are plenty at Westminster who'd gladly make masks compulsory - but there aren't enough to force it. Which is also why English policy is much less restrictive than Scottish or Welsh policy, and leaves individuals to make decisions.

Hmm what to believe regarding Gates the media or my own gut? I’ll trust my own instincts on that one so on that one I’m sorry I disagree! I’m assuming you must believe the media tell the truth regardless? You realise media have caused so much damage as the politicians but are not held accountable but still though keep believing there will be light soon enough.

I rather believe RT than the likes of BBC and Sky if I’m honest but who cares though RT will be more fact checked to that of the BBC (again strange and goes back who to believe then?)

In short MPs are a law onto themselves whilst we are the peasants, well done Sherlock now it’s time for them to give us back what they promised (mind goalposting?) but again I’ll assume you expect this to happen March next year? I hope so and rather be wrong but I am very doubtful but like I say keep believing everything as it’ll come crashing down

As for masks - mandatory in Scotland but I’m a law onto my own self then? I’ll wear a mask in shops but public transport? No buck stops there, I rather give my immune system a fighting chance over winter let alone been vaccinated 3 times but luckily been using multivitamins as backup too (oh look no talk of taking vitamins in the media either .. how strange ain’t it?), if you don’t see what’s in front of you, then you are blinkered (good thing I know is my line of thought is lining up with many others so this whole illusion is finally breaking)

 

[35B]

bang on the money!



Hmm what to believe regarding Gates the media or my own gut? I’ll trust my own instincts on that one so on that one I’m sorry I disagree! I’m assuming you must believe the media tell the truth regardless? You realise media have caused so much damage as the politicians but are not held accountable but still though keep believing there will be light soon enough.

I rather believe RT than the likes of BBC and Sky if I’m honest but who cares though RT will be more fact checked to that of the BBC (again strange and goes back who to believe then?)

In short MPs are a law onto themselves whilst we are the peasants, well done Sherlock now it’s time for them to give us back what they promised (mind goalposting?) but again I’ll assume you expect this to happen March next year? I hope so and rather be wrong but I am very doubtful but like I say keep believing everything as it’ll come crashing down

As for masks - mandatory in Scotland but I’m a law onto my own self then? I’ll wear a mask in shops but public transport? No buck stops there, I rather give my immune system a fighting chance over winter let alone been vaccinated 3 times but luckily been using multivitamins as backup too (oh look no talk of taking vitamins in the media either .. how strange ain’t it?), if you don’t see what’s in front of you, then you are blinkered (good thing I know is my line of thought is lining up with many others so this whole illusion is finally breaking)

I can see what's in front of me, and do my own research too. And that research takes me to some very different places to you, especially where RT is concerned. But then I've never believed that politicians were paragons of virtue, or that the media are perfect either.

 

[kez19]

I can see what's in front of me, and do my own research too. And that research takes me to some very different places to you, especially where RT is concerned. But then I've never believed that politicians were paragons of virtue, or that the media are perfect either.

RT at least don’t blow it out of proportion that our media have done. I watched RT last week for a good couple hours and results for me surprised me - nothing sensationalist about it’s reporting - straight to the point, looking at our media I’d think it’s becoming something of a sketch show.

Why is RT a concern? Is that because our western media have drilled in our minds it’s “bad”? Or is it because it’s stated on social media it’s “Russian state”? Let’s remember the BBC/ITN let alone Sky (formerly Rupert Murdoch) aren’t any better either.

I research too but people are quick to judge others by calling them, nut jobs, theorists or on the other Anti-mask/lockdown/vax etc what does that tell you? I don’t judge others I’m past caring but it’s down to the individual.

As for politicians virtue signalling, come on now - what has the last 18 months taught you? It’s all a one man upmanship or let’s call it “who wore it better” with all these rules, this isn’t about health it’s about control, isn’t it about time we got control back on our lives and I don’t know…we control those politicians to do their jobs properly than lining their own pockets out of this?

 

[35B]

RT at least don’t blow it out of proportion that our media have done. I watched RT last week for a good couple hours and results for me surprised me - nothing sensationalist about it’s reporting - straight to the point, looking at our media I’d think it’s becoming something of a sketch show.

Why is RT a concern? Is that because our western media have drilled in our minds it’s “bad”? Or is it because it’s stated on social media it’s “Russian state”? Let’s remember the BBC/ITN let alone Sky (formerly Rupert Murdoch) aren’t any better either.

I research too but people are quick to judge others by calling them, nut jobs, theorists or on the other Anti-mask/lockdown/vax etc what does that tell you? I don’t judge others I’m past caring but it’s down to the individual.

As for politicians virtue signalling, come on now - what has the last 18 months taught you? It’s all a one man upmanship or let’s call it “who wore it better” with all these rules, this isn’t about health it’s about control, isn’t it about time we got control back on our lives and I don’t know…we control those politicians to do their jobs properly than lining their own pockets out of this?

I’ve no doubt of RT’s production values, or that they don’t present themselves as tabloid tv. But as an arm of Russian government influence, I’d ask you to look at the country that they come from, and it’s attitude to a free press. That is different to the likes of the BBC or ITN.

As for politicians virtue signalling - what’s new. They are - as always - trying to persuade us that their policies and administration would be better than the others. And while politicians are about power, because politics is about power, there are few who I’d regard as being about control. And if they are to be controlled by us, then we need to use our influence over them, not just sit and say they don’t listen to us, then not give them the chance to respond.

 

[kez19]

I’ve no doubt of RT’s production values, or that they don’t present themselves as tabloid tv. But as an arm of Russian government influence, I’d ask you to look at the country that they come from, and it’s attitude to a free press. That is different to the likes of the BBC or ITN.

As for politicians virtue signalling - what’s new. They are - as always - trying to persuade us that their policies and administration would be better than the others. And while politicians are about power, because politics is about power, there are few who I’d regard as being about control. And if they are to be controlled by us, then we need to use our influence over them, not just sit and say they don’t listen to us, then not give them the chance to respond.

Regardless of it’s origin, I no longer care on that front - it just proves a point and the way our media has truly went to pot. So then why no proper criticism then from the UK media be Johnson or Sturgeon other than sucking up to them? I think ITVs lowest point this year was going round the McDonalds looking for milkshakes (could have been a product placement!), it’s no longer about journalism it’s clickbaiting end of.

I’m also well aware of Russia but maybe look closer to home too? What makes the BBC special? I see that they now have disinformation reporters (since COVID they suddenly pop up), the BBC the only network that does fact checking to that of Facebook where facts do overtime become facts but are “labelled” false at first - yes those fact checkers! Maybe how about we get left alone to think for ourselves than be told by fact checkers? Why not they actually fact check politicians/scientists etc than take what’s given as pure fact? I’ll stick to RT.

As for politicians “listening” to us, I said before and will say again but I messaged a councillor on an issue 18 months now we are still at stage 1 (not much done), they don’t listen it’s all about them, egos vanity projects but if something public needs it’s tough.

 

[MikeWM]

It seems like it is the second time the passes have been hacked, there was an attack back in August. This should not be a surprise in a world where an electronic certificate is starting to become compulsory, hackers are usually many steps ahead of the devs. Indeed sometimes the devs even get paid off by the hackers.

Just a thought to both people worried about data sharing, and people banging on about having them made mandatory here. Your data is worth money to someone...

It is perhaps worth noting at this point that those of us who were in the Labour party at some recent time in the past have all just received notification that 'a third party that handles data' on behalf of the party have had a 'cyber incident'. While they are being very cagey about what has actually happened, reading between the lines it seems very likely that personal data has been stolen.

The more parties have access to private information, the more likely something like this is to happen. And when we're talking about being required to provide such private information to simply be able to participate in everyday activities - or not - that is hardly a minor issue. There are very many objections to 'vacccine passports' but the fact that such schemes mean your personal data is going to be pushed around all over the place, outside of your control, is yet another.

 

[Scotrail314209]

No.

Scottish vaccine passport scheme could be expanded - BBC News

John Swinney warns that Covid restrictions may need to be tightened to avoid a fresh lockdown over winter.

www.google.co.uk

Scotland's vaccine passport scheme could be expanded to more hospitality and leisure venues amid fears of a new wave of Covid-19 cases over winter.
Deputy First Minister John Swinney said the rules may need to be tightened in order to prevent a return to lockdown.
This could also include requiring face coverings to be used in more settings, and more home working.

How utterly absurd. That’s all I can say on this.

 

[MikeWM]

How utterly absurd. That’s all I can say on this.

Just like what has just happened in Wales. It doesn't matter what cases etc. are actually doing, or whether vaccine passports achieve anything or not, this has been the plan all along. Creep, creep, creep, until the most basic actions will require obtaining and showing permission from the government.

In related news : France's vaccine passport (already extended until next summer) will soon require a booster in order to show 'vaccinated', just as is already the case in Israel. That'll be the case here too, soon enough.

I get the feeling the next few years of my life are going to be the longest, least satisfying 'told you so' in history

 

[Red Onion]

And if you are medically exempt, prepare for a major battle to get an exemption certificate. I have phoned the helpline numerous times now to be told that there are no such things in Scotland, completely contrary to what their own website says and what is in legislation.

A formal complaint has been lodged and awaiting an outcome.

This is very worrying the way it is going and what is even more frightening is how blind people are to their freedoms being eroded. As I have always said, I wonder if the supporters will be as happy when they are banned from x, y or z because they couldn’t get booster number 9 in time. The fact that your freedom will soon rely on a 6 monthly subscription to Pfizer should be very worrying to people.

 

[ld0595]

2 weeks to flatten the curve...

Madness from the Scottish Government if they expand the rollout.

 

[Scotrail314209]

And if you are medically exempt, prepare for a major battle to get an exemption certificate. I have phoned the helpline numerous times now to be told that there are no such things in Scotland, completely contrary to what their own website says and what is in legislation.

A formal complaint has been lodged and awaiting an outcome.

This is very worrying the way it is going and what is even more frightening is how blind people are to their freedoms being eroded. As I have always said, I wonder if the supporters will be as happy when they are banned from x, y or z because they couldn’t get booster number 9 in time. The fact that your freedom will soon rely on a 6 monthly subscription to Pfizer should be very worrying to people.

Unfortunately this only seems to really be happening in the devolved nations.

It is in situations like these where I wish devolution wasn't a thing... but thats a subject for another thread.

I definitely think if the roll-out goes ahead, it'll absolutely decimate the majority that the SNP at the next election. It also seems like they are trying to deliberately derail the hospitality industry, with certain businesses already seeing less trade as a result.

 

[kez19]

No.

Scottish vaccine passport scheme could be expanded - BBC News

John Swinney warns that Covid restrictions may need to be tightened to avoid a fresh lockdown over winter.

www.google.co.uk

How utterly absurd. That’s all I can say on this.

Mind masks solves everything! Maybe John and his fellow MPs apply that to Holyrood? Will they follow the rules too or will they break them?

Against the whole premise but what the hell apply these passports to all in Holyrood - will they do the talk or do the walk?

Why the need of lockdown I thought my 3 vaccinations was enough already this year and thought it was a way out? (not that I believe much what the media let alone our corrupted politicians say these days), on the other I look at it another way hope more people see through this.

Just like what has just happened in Wales. It doesn't matter what cases etc. are actually doing, or whether vaccine passports achieve anything or not, this has been the plan all along. Creep, creep, creep, until the most basic actions will require obtaining and showing permission from the government.

In related news : France's vaccine passport (already extended until next summer) will soon require a booster in order to show 'vaccinated', just as is already the case in Israel. That'll be the case here too, soon enough.

I get the feeling the next few years of my life are going to be the longest, least satisfying 'told you so' in history

I can quite believe this - cynical at first.