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Vaccine passport disaster in Scotland

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island

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In related news : France's vaccine passport (already extended until next summer) will soon require a booster in order to show 'vaccinated', just as is already the case in Israel.
Only for over-65s (for now at least).
 
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MikeWM

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Only for over-65s (for now at least).

True - but is there a single person on here that doesn't think that will move down the age ranges as they also become 'eligible' for the boosters? By this point, I hope not.
 

Eyersey468

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True - but is there a single person on here that doesn't think that will move down the age ranges as they also become 'eligible' for the boosters? By this point, I hope not.
It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it moves down the age ranges and they keep wanting us to have boosters every few months.
 

Scotrail314209

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I definitely think it's worrying that harsher measures could be implemented next week, even though the numbers are pretty much stable, granted there was a higher number of cases yesterday because of extra testing.

I'll be surprised if there isn't any form of potential restrictions next week, especially given how ScotGov seem to be a bit trigger happy on them.
 

kez19

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I definitely think it's worrying that harsher measures could be implemented next week, even though the numbers are pretty much stable, granted there was a higher number of cases yesterday because of extra testing.

I'll be surprised if there isn't any form of potential restrictions next week, especially given how ScotGov seem to be a bit trigger happy on them.

For me then is what’s happened to living with it?

What other restrictions do they need? Seems to me regardless of vaccines/vaccination it’s like back to the drawing board and still haven’t learnt anything over the last 18 months
 

MikeWM

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For me then is what’s happened to living with it?

I think it is increasingly clear that by 'living with it' they actually meant 'by keeping masks, vaccine passports and regular boosters', probably forever. Which I'd agree doesn't sound much like 'living with it' to me, but rather changing the way our society works.
 

kez19

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I think it is increasingly clear that by 'living with it' they actually meant 'by keeping masks, vaccine passports and regular boosters', probably forever. Which I'd agree doesn't sound much like 'living with it' to me, but rather changing the way our society works.

It seems pretty much a weird way about it, I know on the other why not encourage people to be healthy take vitamins exercise instead than masks etc but of course this is just my opinion but it’s not what the governments media want do they? It’s just a backwards approach, they rather have us glued to the TVs in hysterics masked up inside.
 

kristiang85

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It seems pretty much a weird way about it, I know on the other why not encourage people to be healthy take vitamins exercise instead than masks etc but of course this is just my opinion but it’s not what the governments media want do they? It’s just a backwards approach, they rather have us glued to the TVs in hysterics masked up inside.

Indeed, if people are fearful they turn to the media for information (thus revenue) and are happy for the government to put in restrictions to allay that fear (thus government gets more control).

It's a win win for both goverments and media to collaborate on this, hence why the hard questions are never asked.
 

Eyersey468

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Indeed, if people are fearful they turn to the media for information (thus revenue) and are happy for the government to put in restrictions to allay that fear (thus government gets more control).

It's a win win for both goverments and media to collaborate on this, hence why the hard questions are never asked.
Given the atrocious messaging I can't say I am surprised people are scared.
 

duncanp

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And now there are reports that every pub in Scotland may have to hire door staff if the vaccine passport scheme is extended.


All Scottish pubs may have to hire door staff if vaccine passport scheme extended​

Situation ‘too ridiculous to even contemplate’ if bars must enforce ban on customers who have not been double-jabbed, say industry leaders

Every pub in Scotland could be forced to hire door staff if plans to expand the country's vaccine passport scheme to all hospitality venues go ahead, industry leaders have warned.

The Scottish Licenced Trade Association (SLTA) said it feared that pubs – and bars, restaurants and cafes – would be left in a situation "too ridiculous to even contemplate" if told to enforce a ban on customers who have not been double-jabbed.

John Swinney, the Deputy First Minister, revealed on Tuesday that SNP ministers were considering extending the controversial scheme, which applies to nightclubs and large events, to other hospitality and leisure venues.

But Mr Swinney faces mounting criticism for failing to set out exactly which premises the rules could apply to. In a meeting with hospitality bosses on Wednesday, Scottish government officials refused to clarify the scope of a possible extension.

There are fears that, should the scheme be expanded, existing guidance – which states that nightclub door staff who carry out vaccine checks and refuse entry must have a Security Industry Authority (SIA) licence – would apply to pubs.

‘How would it work without door staff to enforce it?’​

Nightclubs have already complained that there is a shortage of accredited door staff in Scotland, and Paul Waterson, a spokesman for the SLTA, warned that any extension of the scheme would prove unenforceable.

"If we have underage drinkers, bar staff can challenge them," he said. "But it would be completely different with vaccine passports – how would it work without door staff to enforce it? The guidance says people turning people away at the door should be SIA accredited, and to apply that to pubs would be just too ridiculous to even contemplate."

Speaking on Wednesday, Mr Swinney said the "core purpose" of the vaccine passport scheme was to encourage more people to come forward for their jabs. He said the scheme had worked because the rates of vaccination among 18 to 29-year-olds had risen since September.

However, analysis by The Telegraph has shown that the pace of the rollout actually slowed among younger Scots after the scheme was announced.

Business groups reacted with horror to the prospect of the scheme being extended, with nightclubs claiming they have taken a major hit since it came into force last month. Hoteliers said on Wednesday that English tourists who planned to spend Hogmanay in Scotland had begun cancelling their trips.

SNP urged to ‘come clean’ to businesses​

However, Mr Swinney has said more Covid restrictions could be needed in the run up to Christmas, with the NHS under major pressure and virus case numbers expected to rise. He has said rules on face masks could be tightened, with an announcement due next week, but has so far declined to say how.

"It's not a case of we have taken a decision and not announced it," he told BBC Radio Scotland. "We have taken no decisions – we are airing the fact we have got a significant challenge, we need to engage with the business community and engage with sectors about how we best address that."

However, Douglas Lumsden, the economy spokesman for the Scottish Tories, called on the SNP to "come clean" and provide "the most basic details" to businesses of what specific restrictions they are considering.

"John Swinney dodged questions in the Scottish Parliament and his pitiful answers on the radio were no better," Mr Lumsden said. "The uncertainty this vacuum is creating is deeply harmful to our economy. Businesses deserve answers from the SNP, not this stage-managed smoke and mirrors act.”

A Scottish government spokesman said: "As the Deputy First Minister has made clear, the situation around the pandemic is serious so we are being open about all the options available to us that may be required to protect the public.

"No decisions have been made and parliament will be informed if and when any decisions are reached. We continue to liaise closely with stakeholders, including the hospitality sector."
 

kez19

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Indeed, if people are fearful they turn to the media for information (thus revenue) and are happy for the government to put in restrictions to allay that fear (thus government gets more control).

It's a win win for both goverments and media to collaborate on this, hence why the hard questions are never asked.

I long for the day the media gets exposed for what they are in all this, but as I said before in terms of media - they can easily turn on each other
 

greyman42

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Given the atrocious messaging I can't say I am surprised people are scared.
I am amazed that people have not become wise to the rubbish that is spouted. Without a devolved government, Scotland would now be mask free with no vaccine passports.
 

asw22

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Some of the media seem to have woken up to the fact that there are conflicts of interest in the England government.

However who benefits from giving booster jabs every few months?
Also which IT companies benefit from vaccine passports?
These companies now have a guaranteed money tree and it is going to be very difficult to take it away from them.
 

Berliner

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I am amazed that people have not become wise to the rubbish that is spouted. Without a devolved government, Scotland would now be mask free with no vaccine passports.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that healthcare professionals are screaming at UK gov to introduce their plan B and have been for weeks. That plan B is a return of masks and Covid passports. It's purely Tory populism chasing that's keeping them away, but they will obviously be coming in very soon. The tech for vaccine passports is there in England and they will be using it as soon as they find something else to bury the news with.
 

Bikeman78

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You seem to be ignoring the fact that healthcare professionals are screaming at UK gov to introduce their plan B and have been for weeks. That plan B is a return of masks and Covid passports. It's purely Tory populism chasing that's keeping them away, but they will obviously be coming in very soon. The tech for vaccine passports is there in England and they will be using it as soon as they find something else to bury the news with.
What would masks and passports achieve in England? They haven't worked in Wales or Scotland.
 

greyman42

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You seem to be ignoring the fact that healthcare professionals are screaming at UK gov to introduce their plan B and have been for weeks. That plan B is a return of masks and Covid passports. It's purely Tory populism chasing that's keeping them away, but they will obviously be coming in very soon. The tech for vaccine passports is there in England and they will be using it as soon as they find something else to bury the news with.
It is not me ignoring the screaming of the "healthcare professionals", it is the government and rightly so.
Why is it obvious that Covid passports will be coming very soon? When is very soon, are we talking before xmas, after xmas or perhaps Easter? What will happen if there is nothing to bury the news with, does that mean they hold off?
 

Bikeman78

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It would make people feel safer :rolleyes:
I don't even think that works. The people that are most in favour of masks and vaccine passports probably aren't going to places where they are required in Wales and Scotland. Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't it be ironic if the masks and passports are actually causing people to go out and mix more thus pushing up the figures in Wales and Scotland.
 

duncanp

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I don't even think that works. The people that are most in favour of masks and vaccine passports probably aren't going to places where they are required in Wales and Scotland. Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't it be ironic if the masks and passports are actually causing people to go out and mix more thus pushing up the figures in Wales and Scotland.

Latest 7 day case rates (from 7th November)
  • England - 339.4 cases per 100,000
  • Scotland - 352.8 cases per 100,000
  • Northern Ireland - 429.2 cases per 100,000
  • Wales - 487.0 cases per 100,000
Good to see all those vaccine passports and compulsory masks on public transport in Wales and Scotland are working in helping to bring cases down.
(Not)
 

Berliner

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It is not me ignoring the screaming of the "healthcare professionals", it is the government and rightly so.
Why is it obvious that Covid passports will be coming very soon? When is very soon, are we talking before xmas, after xmas or perhaps Easter? What will happen if there is nothing to bury the news with, does that mean they hold off?

I'm betting they bring it all in before Christmas and it'll be sold as the way we can "protect Christmas". Then when Christmas passes they will keep them until the summer when hopefully we will be past it all.

It's obvious because so many other places have similar schemes now and England is not some special place. I don't really care either way if we have such things or not to be honest, but this time last year the Tories had to backtrack on winter lockdowns and ended up having 2. Just because they backed down on masks and passports before doesn't mean they are never coming back.
 

bramling

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Latest 7 day case rates (from 7th November)
  • England - 339.4 cases per 100,000
  • Scotland - 352.8 cases per 100,000
  • Northern Ireland - 429.2 cases per 100,000
  • Wales - 487.0 cases per 100,000
Good to see all those vaccine passports and compulsory masks on public transport in Wales and Scotland are working in helping to bring cases down.
(Not)

It is interesting that Wales's rate is so much higher than elsewhere. Any thoughts as to why? Could it be that they were a little better at suppressing things earlier on, and are simply picking up the deferred outcome of that? But by the same token I don't recall Wales doing that well last year either, apart from perhaps in the rural areas.
 

Class83

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It is interesting that Wales's rate is so much higher than elsewhere. Any thoughts as to why? Could it be that they were a little better at suppressing things earlier on, and are simply picking up the deferred outcome of that? But by the same token I don't recall Wales doing that well last year either, apart from perhaps in the rural areas.
This seems plausible as London currently has significantly lower reported Covid cases than the rest of England. Could be the generally younger (but not school age) population not having significant symptoms and not getting tested, or it could be that a lot of people there had it either in March/April 2020 or over Christmas and New Year last year.

I've not actually heard of anyone who's had their jags and got the app having any problems, so calling the scheme a disaster is misleading. Calling it a government policy you may disagree with is more accurate. Though my personal opinion is that it's a lot less disruptive than closing all the pubs, clubs, cinemas and football stadiums. It will be a bit more effort for pubs, but clubs, cinema and stadiums check tickets and in some cases age on entry anyway.
 

yorkie

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I'm betting they bring it all in before Christmas and it'll be sold as the way we can "protect Christmas". Then when Christmas passes they will keep them until the summer when hopefully we will be past it all.

It's obvious because so many other places have similar schemes now and England is not some special place. I don't really care either way if we have such things or not to be honest, but this time last year the Tories had to backtrack on winter lockdowns and ended up having 2. Just because they backed down on masks and passports before doesn't mean they are never coming back.
Vaccine passports and mask mandates are in place in various places which have case rates higher than England.

If anything is "obvious" it is that they do not work.
 

Berliner

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Vaccine passports and mask mandates are in place in various places which have case rates higher than England.

If anything is "obvious" it is that they do not work.

It's clear the UK government will have pull something out to "Save Christmas" again and it will absolutely be masks and vaccine passports. Why people are denying this is beyond me. Probably just another attempt to put down devolution and the Scottish government. I'd like to add I've not actually had any issues with the vaccine app. Nor has anyone else I know, and I'm of the age where many of my peers still go on nights out and have needed to show them. Everyone I know, bar one girl, was able to get the app up and running on day one, on the first attempt and it's worked ever since. That one girl got it up and running the next day. I've personally used it for foreign travel and it worked absolutely fine. It's far from being the disaster some people are so keen for it to be.
 

NorthKent1989

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It's clear the UK government will have pull something out to "Save Christmas" again and it will absolutely be masks and vaccine passports. Why people are denying this is beyond me. Probably just another attempt to put down devolution and the Scottish government. I'd like to add I've not actually had any issues with the vaccine app. Nor has anyone else I know, and I'm of the age where many of my peers still go on nights out and have needed to show them. Everyone I know, bar one girl, was able to get the app up and running on day one, on the first attempt and it's worked ever since. That one girl got it up and running the next day. I've personally used it for foreign travel and it worked absolutely fine. It's far from being the disaster some people are so keen for it to be.

The app might work no one is denying that, however vaccine passports do nothing to stop the spread of Covid whatsoever and that cannot be denied, the vaccinated can still catch and spread Covid so in a way when you look at it that way, vaccine passports are a disaster, not that the SNP or the Welsh government will admit that.

It should be noted as it has been several times already, that England, which has no passports and has dropped mandatory masks has the lowest cases, so tell me how the passports are working exactly?
 
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43096

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It's clear the UK government will have pull something out to "Save Christmas" again and it will absolutely be masks and vaccine passports. Why people are denying this is beyond me. Probably just another attempt to put down devolution and the Scottish government. I'd like to add I've not actually had any issues with the vaccine app. Nor has anyone else I know, and I'm of the age where many of my peers still go on nights out and have needed to show them. Everyone I know, bar one girl, was able to get the app up and running on day one, on the first attempt and it's worked ever since. That one girl got it up and running the next day. I've personally used it for foreign travel and it worked absolutely fine. It's far from being the disaster some people are so keen for it to be.
Save Christmas again? I seem to remember that the UK Government utterly screwed many peoples' Christmas last year.
 

yorkie

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It's clear the UK government will have pull something out to "Save Christmas" again
What does this even mean?
and it will absolutely be masks and vaccine passports.
No it isn't; they have not brought cases down elsewhere. I won't be masking and loads of people I know won't be. I won't be showing any domestic vaccine passport to anyone either
Why people are denying this is beyond me.
Why people are claiming they are needed or effective is beyond me
Probably just another attempt to put down devolution and the Scottish government.
Probably just another attempt to put down the UK government.

I'd like to add I've not actually had any issues with the vaccine app. Nor has anyone else I know, and I'm of the age where many of my peers still go on nights out and have needed to show them.
So the newspaper reports are false?
Also how do you propose paying for door staff at every pub?
Everyone I know, bar one girl, was able to get the app up and running on day one, on the first attempt and it's worked ever since. That one girl got it up and running the next day. I've personally used it for foreign travel and it worked absolutely fine. It's far from being the disaster some people are so keen for it to be.
We shall see about that.
 

duncanp

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It's clear the UK government will have pull something out to "Save Christmas" again and it will absolutely be masks and vaccine passports. Why people are denying this is beyond me.

This is far from inevitable.

Even Professor Pantsdown has been quoted in several papers today saying that the UK will get away without a Christmas lockdown. (as seen last year)

The reason he gives is that enough people had been exposed to COVID, either through natural infection or vaccination, to give a reasonable degree of immunity.

England currently has the lowest case rate of all the four UK nations, and that is without compulsory masks or vaccine passports.

If masks and vaccine passports were really so effective, you would expect the case rates for Scotland and Wales to be lower than in England.
 

Cdd89

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I've not actually had any issues with the vaccine app. Nor has anyone else I know
In that case perhaps you can answer my question asked twice upthread, and which never seems to get an answer, despite no shortage of vaccine passport enthusiasts who describe them as “easy”, “simple” etc…

What do I do if I am ‘jabbed’, visiting from Canada, and want to visit a nightclub?
 

Berliner

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In that case perhaps you can answer my question asked twice upthread, and which never seems to get an answer, despite no shortage of vaccine passport enthusiasts who describe them as “easy”, “simple” etc…

Your question was answered on 19th October by the Scottish Government.



People visiting Scotland
We will accept proof of vaccination from across the UK and Crown Dependencies as well as from members of the EU Digital Covid Certificate Scheme. The EU scheme currently includes all EU Member States plus an additional 16 countries and territories – with more expected to join.

Outwith the UK and the EU, to begin with domestic certification rules for international visitors will align with the current border rules – so visitors from other nations, such as USA, will need to provide the same proof of vaccination status that is accepted for entry into the UK.

The letter and app on your mobile device will contain a QR code which you will be able to present to the venue who will carry out a visual check or scan the code with a verifier app to confirm the record is authentic.


The verifier app does not retain people’s personal data. It only displays a person’s name, date of birth and vaccine status. The app does not store or transmit any personal data during the process.

As for the others. I'm not saying the vaccine passport scheme lowers or stops cases. All I'm saying is this government has done so many massive u turns over Covid that just because they said Covid passports won't be rolled out in England doesn't mean that's true. They will be. Of course they will be.
 
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