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Vaccine Passports - currently being considered in Scotland & Wales

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Smidster

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Mod note: Split from this thread. Please try and keep conversation here related to vaccine passports specifically, more general discussion of restrictions should go in the relevent thread.

Wasn't really sure best place for this - some more developments on the Vaccine Passports front.

Suggestion they will be expanded to cover Premier League Football and other venues with capacity above 20k from October as well as University Lecture Theaters and Halls of Residence. Your guess is as good as mine as to why going to Millwall (capacity 21k) is more dangerous than Headingley (capacity 19k) - Are you really likely to come into contact with many more people at one over the other even accounting for travel to / away from the event.

Labour seem to have completely lost the plot - KS wants tests *in addition* to passports to gain entry.

Ultimately we need to appreciate that it is the un-vaccinated who are the ones really taking the real risk in choosing to attend such gatherings. As long as they are aware of that risk then putting in more rules and restrictions for everyone else really isn't a good idea.
 
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roversfan2001

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Suggestion they will be expanded to cover Premier League Football and other venues with capacity above 20k from October as well as University Lecture Theaters and Halls of Residence. Your guess is as good as mine as to why going to Millwall (capacity 21k) is more dangerous than Headingley (capacity 19k) - Are you really likely to come into contact with many more people at one over the other even accounting for travel to / away from the event.
Or why it's riskier to attend Ewood Park (capacity 31k, average crowd ~11k) than Kenilworth Road (capacity 10k, filled most games). We've been naturally socially distanced at Ewood for the best part of a decade now... :lol: Of course, we already know that little, if any, of the restrictions put in place have any real scientific grounding to them, so this isn't much of a surprise.
 

big_rig

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I wish the people pushing these schemes would be honest about how long they think they will be in place. If they are required to deal with covid, a virus which is never, ever going to go away, surely the answer is then until the end of recorded time? There will be a similar 'need' for them in 2022 as there will be in 2032, 2042 (i.e you'll be barred from going to the football if you've only had your 37th and not 38th 'booster')... Sadly given the kneejerk way in which policy on this is being made I doubt they have even begin to think about that question.
 

MikeWM

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As I've pointed out a number of times, and I'm afraid to say that I sound less and less crazy every time I point this out, the idea is very clearly to introduce a social credit system where the government tracks everything we do, and we require their permission to do anything.

Covid, and monitoring whether someone has taken the vaccine, is the perfect opportunity for this to be introduced. Of course 'Passports' will not stop there, over time all sorts of other conditions will be attached to getting an 'ok' status.

Consider the other two news items over the weekend, and it doesn't take a genius to work out that the idea is ever-increased government control over our lives. A 'passport' that tracks everything we do, and dictates what we can do, is a natural conclusion of this.

- Launch of a digital currency to 'replace cash'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-replace-cash-official-digital-currency.html
Cash in people's pockets would be superseded by a new 'Britcoin' digital currency in a plan being pushed by Chancellor Rishi Sunak.

In what Treasury insiders say would be the biggest upheaval in the monetary system for centuries, the Bank of England would establish a direct digital equivalent to physical money and take control of it in the same way as sterling.

- Launch of a health app to 'reward' people for doing 'healthy' things
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...d-get-rewards-healthy-living-new-war-obesity/
The scheme will monitor family supermarket spending, rewarding those who reduce their calorie intake and buy more fruit and vegetables. People increasing their exercise by taking part in organised events or walking to school will also accumulate extra "points" in a new app.
...
The programme – modelled on schemes tried in Singapore – is likely to first trial an app allowing people to scan in their weekly shop and track their activity levels.

Officials are considering going still further, with rewards linked to compliance with NHS checks, such as undergoing a smear, mammogram or health MOT.
 

duncanp

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As I've pointed out a number of times, and I'm afraid to say that I sound less and less crazy every time I point this out, the idea is very clearly to introduce a social credit system where the government tracks everything we do, and we require their permission to do anything.

Covid, and monitoring whether someone has taken the vaccine, is the perfect opportunity for this to be introduced. Of course 'Passports' will not stop there, over time all sorts of other conditions will be attached to getting an 'ok' status.

Consider the other two news items over the weekend, and it doesn't take a genius to work out that the idea is ever-increased government control over our lives. A 'passport' that tracks everything we do, and dictates what we can do, is a natural conclusion of this.

- Launch of a digital currency to 'replace cash'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-replace-cash-official-digital-currency.html


- Launch of a health app to 'reward' people for doing 'healthy' things
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...d-get-rewards-healthy-living-new-war-obesity/

And in the future, not only would a vaccine passport be required to get into the pub, but the number of units of alcohol you buy each week would be recorded on the "Health App".

You could then be barred from drinking more than the "recommended" 14 units per week, in order to "protect the NHS" (where have we heard this phrase before?) from the costs of treating alcohol related illness.

I am quite sure that there are some health fascists out there who would like to use modern technology for such a purpose.
 

eastdyke

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Keeping a close eye on events elsewhere, things are moving fast [in this case France]:
From BBC:
The French parliament has adopted a controversial law introducing Covid passports for entry to bars, restaurants and for long-distance trains and flights.

It widens the scope of Covid passports, which are already required for access to museums, theatre and cinema shows and swimming pools.

The expanded law, which takes effect next month, means people will have to show proof of full vaccination or a recent negative Covid test.

It also makes full vaccination mandatory for health workers and staff in certain popular venues, such as restaurants and cinemas.

On Saturday more than 160,000 demonstrated against it and some clashed with police.

More than 44% of the French population has been fully vaccinated, Our World in Data reports.

There were some compromises in parliament - the 12 to 17 age group will not need the pass until October; the law will be reviewed in November and staff who ignore the law will no longer be paid, but will not be sacked.

President Emmanuel Macron decreed the Covid passports as France is battling a fourth wave of the virus, with the Delta variant sending the infection rate soaring.

But Covid cases in intensive care are below 1,000, whereas at the peak in late April the figure was nearly 6,000.
Anyone, yes anyone who thinks such things will not happen here is deluding themselves.
 

MikeWM

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And in the future, not only would a vaccine passport be required to get into the pub, but the number of units of alcohol you buy each week would be recorded on the "Health App".

You could then be barred from drinking more than the "recommended" 14 units per week, in order to "protect the NHS" (where have we heard this phrase before?) from the costs of treating alcohol related illness.

I am quite sure that there are some health fascists out there who would like to use modern technology for such a purpose.

Precisely so - just one of many exciting applications. Expect to see the same for sugar, salt and fat consumption too.
 

WelshBluebird

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Can we please keep this on topic for vaccine passports please and not let it degenerate into another conspiracy fest?
You could then be barred from drinking more than the "recommended" 14 units per week, in order to "protect the NHS" (where have we heard this phrase before?) from the costs of treating alcohol related illness.
Come on. You know the is not going to happen. There's no need to go full on nutcase about the claims here. Doing so distracts from the actual issues at play. If you are against vaccine passports then keep the discussion to that. Drifting off onto this that clearly won't happen does your cause no good and ends up basically just discrediting it!
 

NorthOxonian

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It's worth noting that 81 MPs have signed a declaration opposing vaccine passports - including enough Conservative rebels to overcome Johnson's majority. It seems to be a very diverse group - there are plenty of anti-lockdown Tories on there, but also Emma Lewell Buck (the most anti-lockdown Labour MP), the Lib Dems (who range from extreme Zero Covid to broadly anti-restriction), and the socialist left.

The full list is here (I've attempted to quote it below as well): https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/campaigns/stopvaccinepassports/#crosspartycampaign

Diane Abbott MPLabour
Bell Ribeiro-Addy MPLabour
Tahir Ali MPLabour
Rebecca Long Bailey MPLabour
Clive Lewis MPLabour
Beth Winter MPLabour
Rachel Hopkins MPLabour
Apsana Begum MPLabour
Richard Burgon MPLabour
Ian Byrne MPLabour
Dawn Butler MPLabour
Mary Kelly Foy MPLabour
Ian Lavery MPLabour
Ian Mearns MPLabour
John McDonnell MPLabour
Grahame Morris MPLabour
Kate Osborne MPLabour
Zarah Sultana MPLabour
Claudia Webbe MPLabour
Mick Whitley MPLabour
Nadia Whittome MPLabour
Baroness ChakrabartiLabour
Baroness Bryan of PartickLabour
Lord WoodleyLabour
Lord SikkaLabour
Lord HendyLabour
Emma Lewell-Buck MPLabour
Kim Johnson MPLabour
Baroness Christine BlowerLabour
Paula Barker MPLabour
Andrew Gwynne MPLabour
Jeremy Corbyn MP
Ed Davey MPLiberal Democrats
Layla Moran MPLiberal Democrats
Munira Wilson MPLiberal Democrats
Alistair Carmichael MPLiberal Democrats
Daisy Cooper MPLiberal Democrats
Wendy Chamberlain MPLiberal Democrats
Sarah Olney MPLiberal Democrats
Christine Jardine MPLiberal Democrats
Jamie Stone MPLiberal Democrats
Tim Farron MPLiberal Democrats
Wera Hobhouse MPLiberal Democrats
Lord ScrivenLiberal Democrats
Lord StrasburgerLiberal Democrats
Lord TylerLiberal Democrats
Lord Clement-JonesLiberal Democrats
Baroness Sarah LudfordLiberal Democrats
Baroness BrintonLiberal Democrats
Mark Harper MPConservative Party
Steve Baker MPConservative Party
Sir Iain Duncan Smith MPConservative Party
Harriett Baldwin MPConservative Party
Esther McVey MPConservative Party
Adam Afriyie MPConservative Party
Bob Blackman MPConservative Party
Sir Graham Brady MPConservative Party
Nus Ghani MPConservative Party
Andrew Mitchell MPConservative Party
Peter Bone MPConservative Party
Ben Bradley MPConservative Party
Andrew Bridgen MPConservative Party
Paul Bristow MPConservative Party
Philip Davies MPConservative Party
Richard Drax MPConservative Party
Jonathan Djanogly MPConservative Party
Chris Green MPConservative Party
Philip Hollobone MPConservative Party
Adam Holloway MPConservative Party
David Jones MPConservative Party
Simon Jupp MPConservative Party
Andrew Lewer MBE MPConservative Party
Julian Lewis MPConservative Party
Karl McCartney MPConservative Party
Craig Mackinlay MPConservative Party
Anthony Mangnall MPConservative Party
Stephen McPartland MPConservative Party
Anne Marie Morris MPConservative Party
Sir John Redwood MPConservative Party
Andrew Rosindell MPConservative Party
Greg Smith MPConservative Party
Henry Smith MPConservative Party
Julian Sturdy MPConservative Party
Sir Desmond Swayne MPConservative Party
Sir Robert Syms MPConservative Party
Craig Tracey MPConservative Party
Jamie Wallis MPConservative Party
David Warburton MPConservative Party
William Wragg MPConservative Party
Sir Charles Walker MPConservative Party
David Davis MPConservative Party
Simon Fell MPConservative Party
Lord MoylanConservative Party
Caroline Lucas MPGreen Party
Baroness Jenny JonesGreen Party
 

MikeWM

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Can we please keep this on topic for vaccine passports please and not let it degenerate into another conspiracy fest?

'It's not a conspiracy theory if it keeps on coming true'.

Come on. You know the is not going to happen.

I strongly suspect you'd have said the same 18 months ago if someone had suggested, for example, you may require government permission to go to a Church service on Sundays.

Actually I would have done so, too. It is astonishing how quickly this is progressing.

If you are against vaccine passports then keep the discussion to that.

Part of the reason many are against vaccine passports - whether they themselves have been vaccinated or not - is because we can see the inherent creep that is almost inevitable with such a system, way beyond just showing if you've been vaccinated against a specific disease.

Some of us saw the same with Blair's ID cards, which is why we were so opposed to them then too.
 

WelshBluebird

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And in the attempt to keep on topic - I'm thinking of this from a gig venue point of view as that is the world I know best - one thing I wonder is how on earth this will be feasible for both small venues and large venues.
For small venues I'm specifically talking about the kind of venue that is a small backroom in a pub where you won't even have a ticket, you just chuck a fiver in the tin. Maybe these won't need this kind of thing, but the initial announcement from government did say "crowded" places and a small sweaty gig space is absolutely crowded when sold out!
And for large venues - well you saw how well that worked for the Euro 2020 final!
I can only really see this working for middle sized venues, many of which are big enough to already have barcode / QR code readers for ticket checks as part of their entrance policy but who aren't too big so they don't have THAT many people to deal with (which is what makes it difficult for larger venues) - in which case what is the point? Especially as we are giving 2 months of people being able to do whatever they want anyway.

As is probably obvious from my posts, I'm not ideologically opposed to it, I just think there's a lot of logistics that would prove very difficult to solve!
I suspect the government working more closely with industry (the Music Venue Trust for gigs, the FA and the Football Supporters Federation for football, etc etc) is the better scenario, with at least the MVT already heavily promoting the idea of people getting tested before they go to a gig but not making it a condition of entry.
 

duncanp

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Can we please keep this on topic for vaccine passports please and not let it degenerate into another conspiracy fest?

Come on. You know the is not going to happen. There's no need to go full on nutcase about the claims here. Doing so distracts from the actual issues at play. If you are against vaccine passports then keep the discussion to that. Drifting off onto this that clearly won't happen does your cause no good and ends up basically just discrediting it!

One of the reasons I am against vaccine passports is that they could potentially be used for additional purposes in the future.

Whilst use of the App to limit, or even just monitor, alcohol consumption is not going to happen immediately, you cannot say that such a law will never be introduced in the future.
 

Philip

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One of the reasons I am against vaccine passports is that they could potentially be used for additional purposes in the future.

Whilst use of the App to limit, or even just monitor, alcohol consumption is not going to happen immediately, you cannot say that such a law will never be introduced in the future.

I wouldn't say that this is necessarily a bad thing, as everyone knows excessive alcohol consumption isn't good.
 

Skimpot flyer

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I am vehemently opposed to the very notion of Vaccine Passports. They will create a 2-tier society and for what? I’d understand if a vaccinated person was 100% guaranteed to be incapable of getting or transmitting Covid, but that is not the case. A person showing a Vaccine Passport is still a potential spreader to others in that venue.
Somebody on another thread said they went to London City Airport and temperature checks were in use, presumably via one of those hand-held scanners. Though not infallible, surely if we want to prevent potentially infected individuals from entering a venue, these would be a more logical, efficient and quick way to minimise risk?
 

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philosopher

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Keeping a close eye on events elsewhere, things are moving fast [in this case France]:
From BBC:

Anyone, yes anyone who thinks such things will not happen here is deluding themselves.
Since European countries throughout this crisis have been copying what their neighbours have done, I think vaccine passports are almost inevitable.

France, Ireland, the Netherlands and Italy have all introduced them. Boris won’t want to feel left out!
 

NorthKent1989

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Can we please keep this on topic for vaccine passports please and not let it degenerate into another conspiracy fest?

Come on. You know the is not going to happen. There's no need to go full on nutcase about the claims here. Doing so distracts from the actual issues at play. If you are against vaccine passports then keep the discussion to that. Drifting off onto this that clearly won't happen does your cause no good and ends up basically just discrediting it!

Its worth noting that vaccine passports to enjoy life was a “conspiracy theory” 18 months ago….. and now look at where we are….just saying.

I’m against vaccine passports for domestic uses, especially if a vaxxed person can still catch and pass on Covid, it’s utterly pointless.

Quite frankly anyone who supports these draconian methods needs to take a long hard look at themselves, if they support Covid passports then they are pro segregation simple as that, and I like to think we have come a long way from that.

What all the governments of the world are proposing breaks the Nuremberg law that no one should be coerced into treatment if they so choose.

Im angry that this could even become a possibility and I hope there will be more backlash against this authoritarian regime
 
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MikeWM

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It's worth noting that 81 MPs have signed a declaration opposing vaccine passports - including enough Conservative rebels to overcome Johnson's majority. It seems to be a very diverse group - there are plenty of anti-lockdown Tories on there, but also Emma Lewell Buck (the most anti-lockdown Labour MP), the Lib Dems (who range from extreme Zero Covid to broadly anti-restriction), and the socialist left.

The full list is here (I've attempted to quote it below as well): https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/campaigns/stopvaccinepassports/#crosspartycampaign

Sadly, I wouldn't expect them to achieve much, as Starmer is now wibbling about the issue, so will no doubt end up supporting (or abstaining). In fact he appears to want passports *and* tests...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-open-vaccine-passports-large-gatherings.html
'Labour leader Keir Starmer said Monday he'd be open to the prospect of government-enforced vaccine passports at large events, but cautioned against their use 'on an every day basis.'

I want to be pragmatic about this, make sure that sports and all sectors are opened as quickly as possible,' Starmer told Nick Ferrari on LBC radio. 'I think that passports on their own are not enough because we know sadly you can be doubled jabbed and get the variant, so it’s got to be passports plus testing.'
(bold mine)
 

NorthKent1989

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Sadly, I wouldn't expect them to achieve much, as Starmer is now wibbling about the issue, so will no doubt end up supporting (or abstaining). In fact he appears to want passports *and* tests...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-open-vaccine-passports-large-gatherings.html

(bold mine)

This shows that Starmer is a useless opposition leader and needs to go, he’s shown zero backbone throughout all of this, this is one issue Labour as a whole should be vehemently against.

Ed Davey the Lib Dem leader has stated that he is against vaccine passports for domestic uses and it appears that the Lib Dem’s have United against such measures, I’ll imagine the Greens doing the same but if Labour don’t go against this overall then it’s all done for, we can never process that we are a liberal democracy again and we really will turn into China
 

brad465

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Sadly, I wouldn't expect them to achieve much, as Starmer is now wibbling about the issue, so will no doubt end up supporting (or abstaining). In fact he appears to want passports *and* tests...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-open-vaccine-passports-large-gatherings.html

(bold mine)
I would like to see at least one whole political party, regardless of its size, come out and very vocally oppose them and see if this effects opinion polls and causes the Government to cave in and drop them. Reform UK and/or the Lib Dems would be the most likely to achieve this, if they get the air time, as they have the most potential to split Tory support and chances are they already hold this point of view; looking at the list of MPs above the Lib Dems already do in Parliament.

This shows that Starmer is a useless opposition leader and needs to go, he’s shown zero backbone throughout all of this, this is one issue Labour as a whole should be vehemently against.

Ed Davey the Lib Dem leader has stated that he is against vaccine passports for domestic uses and it appears that the Lib Dem’s have United against such measures, I’ll imagine the Greens doing the same but if Labour don’t go against this overall then it’s all done for, we can never process that we are a liberal democracy again and we really will turn into China
It is a surprise, but welcome, that much of the hard left in the Labour party are in that list against passports, and for all the talk they'd turn us into China or another communist-like state if they controlled the country, they don't seem to support a high profile measure along those lines.
 

NorthKent1989

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And in the attempt to keep on topic - I'm thinking of this from a gig venue point of view as that is the world I know best - one thing I wonder is how on earth this will be feasible for both small venues and large venues.
For small venues I'm specifically talking about the kind of venue that is a small backroom in a pub where you won't even have a ticket, you just chuck a fiver in the tin. Maybe these won't need this kind of thing, but the initial announcement from government did say "crowded" places and a small sweaty gig space is absolutely crowded when sold out!
And for large venues - well you saw how well that worked for the Euro 2020 final!
I can only really see this working for middle sized venues, many of which are big enough to already have barcode / QR code readers for ticket checks as part of their entrance policy but who aren't too big so they don't have THAT many people to deal with (which is what makes it difficult for larger venues) - in which case what is the point? Especially as we are giving 2 months of people being able to do whatever they want anyway.

As is probably obvious from my posts, I'm not ideologically opposed to it, I just think there's a lot of logistics that would prove very difficult to solve!
I suspect the government working more closely with industry (the Music Venue Trust for gigs, the FA and the Football Supporters Federation for football, etc etc) is the better scenario, with at least the MVT already heavily promoting the idea of people getting tested before they go to a gig but not making it a condition of entry.

Why enforce them two months after “freedom day” at all? It should be choice, why all this coercion to get a jab for a virus with a 99% survival rate?

I would like to see at least one whole political party, regardless of its size, come out and very vocally oppose them and see if this effects opinion polls and causes the Government to cave in and drop them. Reform UK and/or the Lib Dems would be the most likely to achieve this, if they get the air time, as they have the most potential to split Tory support and chances are they already hold this point of view; looking at the list of MPs above the Lib Dems already do in Parliament.


It is a surprise, but welcome, that much of the hard left in the Labour party are in that list against passports, and for all the talk they'd turn us into China or another communist-like state if they controlled the country, they don't seem to support a high profile measure along those lines.

I find it ironic that the whole reason people voted for Boris is they feared that Jeremy Corbyn would turn Britain into a communist state, and what’s Boris gone and done.
 
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MikeWM

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It is a surprise, but welcome, that much of the hard left in the Labour party are in that list against passports, and for all the talk they'd turn us into China or another communist-like state if they controlled the country, they don't seem to support a high profile measure along those lines.

I had little doubt that Corbyn and his followers would be firmly against, and while they've been totally wrong in my opinion about so much about the response to Covid, I'd have been amazed and deeply disappointed if they hadn't strongly opposed this.

Corbyn is of much the same cloth as Tony Benn after all, and Tony Benn was one of the most outspoken against Blair's ID cards 15 or so years ago. Corbyn's record on civil liberties was pretty uniformly excellent when he was a backbencher (though a little less so when he became party leader).
 

bramling

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Can we please keep this on topic for vaccine passports please and not let it degenerate into another conspiracy fest?

Come on. You know the is not going to happen. There's no need to go full on nutcase about the claims here. Doing so distracts from the actual issues at play. If you are against vaccine passports then keep the discussion to that. Drifting off onto this that clearly won't happen does your cause no good and ends up basically just discrediting it!

I don't think it's nutcase territory at all.

It's already the case now that visiting a heritage railway in some cases requires pre-booking (via a bank card), turning up at a specific time, being allocated a specific seat, being told to do certain things such as wearing a mask, and not to mention having the compartment wiped down afterwards to remove one's filthy germs to make it "clean" for everyone else.

I for one don't wish to live like this, and if we're not careful this is exactly how some things are going to go, as there's people who seem to love all this.

We shouldn't just dismiss this as nutcase territory, as elements of it could very easily happen if we sleepwalk our way there.
 

londonteacher

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I for one don't wish to live like this, and if we're not careful this is exactly how some
If everyone rejects it then it won't last long if it happens. But, people won't do that. So many people say they will boycott something or do something but don't actually do it. That's the problem.
 

NorthKent1989

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If everyone rejects it then it won't last long if it happens. But, people won't do that. So many people say they will boycott something or do something but don't actually do it. That's the problem.

This has gotten a lot of people riled up and rightfully so, nightclub and pub landlords want to take this court and to be honest I don’t see many venues enforcing this ridiculous, irrational passport, pubs and nightclubs want to survive and not shoot themselves in the foot.

You never needed a vaccine passport before for anything, why now? One has to wonder if this is even about a virus anymore.
 

londonteacher

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This has gotten a lot of people riled up and rightfully so, nightclub and pub landlords want to take this court and to be honest I don’t see many venues enforcing this ridiculous, irrational passport, pubs and nightclubs want to survive and not shoot themselves in the foot.
Agreed, but at the same time not following it could also lead to many of these establishments losing their license or being heavily fined.
 

NorthKent1989

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Agreed, but at the same time not following it could also lead to many of these establishments losing their license or being heavily fined.

People sue on discrimination grounds as a result and no one wants to be seen as that, what the government is proposing goes against the Nuremberg code, plus I think people would crowdfund on venues being sued at this point.

Depends - I could imagine certain councils (especially those controlled by the anti-vaccine passport Lib Dems) turning a blind eye.

Indeed, my cousin lives in Amersham, now a Lib Dem seat, the MP for that area had assured business owners that he won’t support vaccine passports and won’t check if businesses don’t enforce them my cousin has heard from various landlords from who’ve been concerned about such measures.
 

MikeWM

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Ely
Depends - I could imagine certain councils (especially those controlled by the anti-vaccine passport Lib Dems) turning a blind eye.

The penalties in Ireland, and worse yet France [1], have been set incredibly high, both for individuals found 'somewhere they're not allowed to be' and (at least in the case of France, not sure about Ireland) for the business that allowed it. I'd expect something similar here. No business would risk it. Remember the '10 years in prison' for lying on a quarantine form?

[1] Up to 6 months in prison for the individual, and 12 months in prison for the business owner, were in the draft legislation. I'm not sure if that insanity remained in the final legislation that passed though.
 

Red Onion

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Being medically unable to take a second vaccine due to the injury suffered from the first (five months on I’m just starting to recover), I wonder which elements of society I’ll be excluded from. Whilst I’m too old for nightclubs, it’s wrong anyone should be excluded from them (except drunks, thugs etc) but looks like I could be excluded from watching live sports & music, the pub, restaurants, cafes, going to university… to name a few.

Is it right? Of course not.

There will be huge mission creep with these things and I ask those who support them, will you be as keen on them if you no longer fit the criteria to take part in society…
 

DelayRepay

Established Member
Joined
21 May 2011
Messages
1,633
Being medically unable to take a second vaccine due to the injury suffered from the first (five months on I’m just starting to recover), I wonder which elements of society I’ll be excluded from. Whilst I’m too old for nightclubs, it’s wrong anyone should be excluded from them (except drunks, thugs etc) but looks like I could be excluded from watching live sports & music, the pub, restaurants, cafes, going to university… to name a few.

I imagine that they will have a way where your GP can mark you as unable to receive the vaccine, which would show in the NHS app and effectively work as an exemption.

To be clear I do not support this approach, but it's easy enough to implement to close down one route of legal action against passports.

I am vaccinated. That's enough to protect me. Whether others choose to be vaccinated or not is their decision and makes no difference to me. If they get Covid as a result that's their problem, not mine.
 
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