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Vaccine Passports/Permanent restrictions

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ainsworth74

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So does this mean that if I don't get vaccinated, will I still be able to travel to Spain this summer, provided I test negative for the virus?

I think you'd need to ask the Spanish government about that. But I've not found any detail of what they're planning beyond that Guardian article.
 
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Bikeman78

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It may be a mess, but I've scant sympathy for those who've just booked holidays based on a set of target dates on a roadmap that's been declared as subject to data supporting it, and where rapid changes of policy have left people in tight corners in the last year. Caveat emptor applies in that case.

As for how the EU decides to implement vaccine passports, that is up to the EU - I'm just glad to see that what is being discussed is being discussed on the basis of working together.
What's the alternative? No one books anything and all the airlines and holiday companies go bankrupt? I've not tried to book anything but I'd imagine the option to cancel or change dates exists in most cases. I wouldn't book without those options being available.
 
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35B

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What's the alternative? No one books anything and all the airlines and holiday companies go bankrupt? I'm not tried to book anything but I'd imagine the option to cancel or change dates exists in most cases. I wouldn't book without those options being available.
Fair question. But if something slips, I’m braced to hear loud wailing from those who’ve made plans that are no longer possible, disregarding the uncertainty inherent in their choice.
 

greyman42

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If the EU are organising a vaccine passport then it will be ready in about five years when they have got around all the red tape.
 

Bantamzen

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It’s going to be a real mess when all those who’ve already booked summer holidays aren’t able to travel suddenly and will insurance pay out...

Personally it’s made me rather annoyed very few have stood up to this considering how many people would be stuck inside the UK. Hundreds of thousands of young people, a significant minority of who will be EU nationals and may not have seen their family in over 12 months might be further delayed, through no fault of their own. As I’ve said countless times it’s not as though these people are vaccine refusers - I’m sure many would jump on it. Also the EU is even further behind so that’s even fewer of their citizens able to travel.

Whether they can arrange this in the next 3 months is another matter and it might be scaled back to “negative test required” which isn’t great but more feasible considering many local authorities are now doing free testing (at least in London).
Likewise, I getting thoroughly fed up with politicians playing silly games. Holidays might only be a treat for some people, as you say for others it the only opportunity to see friends & family, and for others again its actually their jobs on the line (some people tend to forget that there is a whole industry behind tourism). And after this crap year, why shouldn't some of us look forward to a treat. We know the risks are low and getting lower every single day, despite what the media is desperate to peddle.
 

jamesheet49

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A distant relative had a serious medical problem when they were in the UK, but checked themselves out of hospital, and headed off to the EU to meet up with a partner. They were relying on the EHIC card (it was a few of years ago) got ill again, and found that they weren't covered, because they had left the UK hospital against the medical advice. I don't know what the bill was for their treatment and repatriation to the UK, but it was a lot. Luckily they have enough assets to pay for the bill.

Personally, I would always get travel insurance, perhaps with a hefty excess so its cheaper and only worthwhile for life changing bills.

If you left the country against medical advice, you won't be covered by travel insurance anyway. EHIC is supposed to cover you for pre-existing conditions.
 

bspahh

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If you left the country against medical advice, you won't be covered by travel insurance anyway. EHIC is supposed to cover you for pre-existing conditions.
I wasn't recommending that you travel after ignoring medical advice, but warning that paying for emergency medical bills from your own pocket is an expensive pastime.
 

yorkie

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It is likely that some sort of evidence of vaccination will be required to visit certain countries. This is not without precedent and there is nothing we in the UK can do about that (other than people can choose to not visit those countries)

I do not think vaccine passports would be likely to be used for things like entries to pubs, restaurants etc because it would be many months before any such passport could be both issued and also be issued to enough of the population to avoid indirect discrimination.

And by the time that happens, we will probably be accepting Sars-Cov-2 becoming the 5th endemic Coronavirus in the world and most countries will effectively be 'at equilibrium' with the virus, its status downgraded - through our build up of immunity - to a similar status to other viruses that we live with. That is not a guaranteed outcome but is what most experts appear to be predicting.

I also don't think that sufficient quantities of people in the UK are going to refuse the vaccine to make it viable, but that's just a guess on my part.
 

NorthKent1989

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The idea of a domestic vaccine passport/certificate to enter pubs, shops and restaurants or to get a job even, is quite frankly utterly ludicrous.

This alone goes against our civil liberties and gives credence to conspiracy theorists, many of who predicted that such a thing would be considered a year ago when the first lockdown happened.

It should be a choice, the elderly and vulnerable can get it if they feel they need it, but to force healthy, fit and young people to take this vaccine is sinister.

I’ve been following this story closely and there seems to be a vocal minority who want such an infringement of our civil liberties, people have had enough of lockdown and restrictions, the majority of people from what i can see on social media and on various forums I’m on are 90% against a domestic vaccine passport.

Bigger businesses like supermarkets May enforce this for a while but will quietly let it go, and for smaller businesses, restaurants and pubs it’ll be a non starter, they’ll want to entice customers back after a year of uncertainty and disruption not to mention the cost of having someone stand at the door checking for passports isn’t practical even if they get an existing member of staff to do so it’ll be far too awkward.

It’ll be political suicide for all the parties who favour this (the mainstream parties are on life support at this point) I just cannot see this happening, not unless they want mass marches, it’ll be a step too far, lawyers are already lining up wanting to take discrimination and human rights cases.

I’m myself am sceptical of vaccines as I’ve had the flu jab a few times and it’s never ended well for me, I’ve had a bad reaction to them so I maybe medically exempt, they work for others but for me not so much.
 

Gadget88

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The idea of a domestic vaccine passport/certificate to enter pubs, shops and restaurants or to get a job even, is quite frankly utterly ludicrous.

This alone goes against our civil liberties and gives credence to conspiracy theorists, many of who predicted that such a thing would be considered a year ago when the first lockdown happened.

It should be a choice, the elderly and vulnerable can get it if they feel they need it, but to force healthy, fit and young people to take this vaccine is sinister.

I’ve been following this story closely and there seems to be a vocal minority who want such an infringement of our civil liberties, people have had enough of lockdown and restrictions, the majority of people from what i can see on social media and on various forums I’m on are 90% against a domestic vaccine passport.

Bigger businesses like supermarkets May enforce this for a while but will quietly let it go, and for smaller businesses, restaurants and pubs it’ll be a non starter, they’ll want to entice customers back after a year of uncertainty and disruption not to mention the cost of having someone stand at the door checking for passports isn’t practical even if they get an existing member of staff to do so it’ll be far too awkward.

It’ll be political suicide for all the parties who favour this (the mainstream parties are on life support at this point) I just cannot see this happening, not unless they want mass marches, it’ll be a step too far, lawyers are already lining up wanting to take discrimination and human rights cases.

I’m myself am sceptical of vaccines as I’ve had the flu jab a few times and it’s never ended well for me, I’ve had a bad reaction to them so I maybe medically exempt, they work for others but for me not so much.
Well said excellent post. As the polls Boris is still ahead despite a budget of massive tax hikes. I think people will vote for anybody I am voting SNP for the first time since 2007 in May I am sick and tried of Whitty Boris and Hancock.
 

DB

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Well said excellent post. As the polls Boris is still ahead despite a budget of massive tax hikes. I think people will vote for anybody I am voting SNP for the first time since 2007 in May I am sick and tried of Whitty Boris and Hancock.

Anyone could be forgiven for thinking we don't actually have an opposition party at the moment. Starmer promised to be a good opposition leader, but he's proved a massive disappointment. His main focus seems to be to back the government Covid mesures every single time but complain that they should have gone further / earlier / stricter every time.
 

Gadget88

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Anyone could be forgiven for thinking we don't actually have an opposition party at the moment. Starmer promised to be a good opposition leader, but he's proved a massive disappointment. His main focus seems to be to back the government Covid mesures every single time but complain that they should have gone further / earlier / stricter every time.
Exactly I was hopeful for Labour but they have been weak even Ross seems better. I did vote for them last December but he has been a let down as PM complete failure. His tenure has swung me towards backing independence in Scotland. Now I use to consider myself a unionist however the pandemic has shown Scotland would be better run as an independent country though my preference is to one day see a strong Labour government.
 

takno

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Well said excellent post. As the polls Boris is still ahead despite a budget of massive tax hikes. I think people will vote for anybody I am voting SNP for the first time since 2007 in May I am sick and tried of Whitty Boris and Hancock.
How does voting SNP help with anything. Anything Boris does they're anxious to do it twice as hard and for just that little bit longer. I'd argue that any party, even the Tories in Scotland, would be a better place than the SNP to express a protest against vaccine passports and endless restrictions
 

DustyBin

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How does voting SNP help with anything. Anything Boris does they're anxious to do it twice as hard and for just that little bit longer. I'd argue that any party, even the Tories in Scotland, would be a better place than the SNP to express a protest against vaccine passports and endless restrictions

Agreed, far be it from me to tell people how to vote but the SNP have mirrored and in many cases attempted to outdo the restrictions introduced in England. Voting for them suggests you want more of the same, surely? I’m a Conservative voter but I’ll be voting for a small, preferably vocally anti-lockdown party as all of the major parties are complicit in the events of the last twelve months as far as I’m concerned.
 

kez19

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How does voting SNP help with anything. Anything Boris does they're anxious to do it twice as hard and for just that little bit longer. I'd argue that any party, even the Tories in Scotland, would be a better place than the SNP to express a protest against vaccine passports and endless restrictions


I be surprised if Sturgeon backs passports but won't say publicly however Jason Leitch has mentioned this - so in short for me it doesn't matter what party you vote for they are all up the backsides.

As I say as well do we really think the politicians give a damn about us? All politicians in general are eating from the same trough (even for argument sake at local level too).
 

bramling

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Well said excellent post. As the polls Boris is still ahead despite a budget of massive tax hikes. I think people will vote for anybody I am voting SNP for the first time since 2007 in May I am sick and tried of Whitty Boris and Hancock.

I am properly hacked of with all the established parties. For me it’s going to spoiled ballots or voting for joke parties (eg Monster Raving Loony) for the foreseeable. I feel completely politically homeless.

Cannot being myself to vote Conservative whilst BJ remains leader.
 

kez19

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Exactly I was hopeful for Labour but they have been weak even Ross seems better. I did vote for them last December but he has been a let down as PM complete failure. His tenure has swung me towards backing independence in Scotland. Now I use to consider myself a unionist however the pandemic has shown Scotland would be better run as an independent country though my preference is to one day see a strong Labour government.


If I am honest I voted SNP donkeys ago, I voted Conservative twice recently but I would rather vote for independent parties if anything but even that the independent parties may give their vote to other parties.

I will never give my vote for SNP I feel everything is a mess but passing buck all the time (if issues are devolved but clearly she still blames everyone else apart from herself).

I'm not going political in general in this post but I would say it another way vote for who you wish and who would be best getting out of this and not to go ahead with these ideas (long shot suggestion) but I agree with you i'm at my wits end with this too.
 

3rd rail land

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The idea of a domestic vaccine passport/certificate to enter pubs, shops and restaurants or to get a job even, is quite frankly utterly ludicrous.

This alone goes against our civil liberties and gives credence to conspiracy theorists, many of who predicted that such a thing would be considered a year ago when the first lockdown happened.

It should be a choice, the elderly and vulnerable can get it if they feel they need it, but to force healthy, fit and young people to take this vaccine is sinister.

I’ve been following this story closely and there seems to be a vocal minority who want such an infringement of our civil liberties, people have had enough of lockdown and restrictions, the majority of people from what i can see on social media and on various forums I’m on are 90% against a domestic vaccine passport.

Bigger businesses like supermarkets May enforce this for a while but will quietly let it go, and for smaller businesses, restaurants and pubs it’ll be a non starter, they’ll want to entice customers back after a year of uncertainty and disruption not to mention the cost of having someone stand at the door checking for passports isn’t practical even if they get an existing member of staff to do so it’ll be far too awkward.

It’ll be political suicide for all the parties who favour this (the mainstream parties are on life support at this point) I just cannot see this happening, not unless they want mass marches, it’ll be a step too far, lawyers are already lining up wanting to take discrimination and human rights cases.

I’m myself am sceptical of vaccines as I’ve had the flu jab a few times and it’s never ended well for me, I’ve had a bad reaction to them so I maybe medically exempt, they work for others but for me not so much.
If we don't get mandatory vaccine passports in the UK then the law will need to make it illegal for businesses to insist of proof of vaccination before entering a pub/shop/restaurant/workplace/other premises. I don't think any businesses would try for fear of reputational damage and loss of business to competitors.

Personally as a fit and healthy 30 year old with no history of any significant illness I am happy to forgo vaccination and take the risk, which I believe to be rather low in my circumstances. The problem is other countries may demand proof of vaccination before one can enter or quarantine and a negative test. This alone is reason enough for me to get vaccinated as I want to be able to go abroad on holiday. I couldn't bear the thought of many countries outside the UK being off limits for the foreseeable future.
 

LAX54

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If we don't get mandatory vaccine passports in the UK then the law will need to make it illegal for businesses to insist of proof of vaccination before entering a pub/shop/restaurant/workplace/other premises. I don't think any businesses would try for fear of reputational damage and loss of business to competitors.

Personally as a fit and healthy 30 year old with no history of any significant illness I am happy to forgo vaccination and take the risk, which I believe to be rather low in my circumstances. The problem is other countries may demand proof of vaccination before one can enter or quarantine and a negative test. This alone is reason enough for me to get vaccinated as I want to be able to go abroad on holiday. I couldn't bear the thought of many countries outside the UK being off limits for the foreseeable future.
Proof of vaccination for a trip abroad, I have no issue with, (and assume it would apply to visitors to the UK too !) but to have one for everyday use in the UK, is a no from me, and I am sure it would be hard to manage as well.
If it is going to be part of the so called 'new normal' for trips abroad, business or leisure, then so be it, I am sure everyone will, or would get used to it after a while, like getting a VISA or ESTA etc if you wish to visit certain Countries.
 

Yew

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Proof of vaccination for a trip abroad, I have no issue with, (and assume it would apply to visitors to the UK too !) but to have one for everyday use in the UK, is a no from me, and I am sure it would be hard to manage as well.
If it is going to be part of the so called 'new normal' for trips abroad, business or leisure, then so be it, I am sure everyone will, or would get used to it after a while, like getting a VISA or ESTA etc if you wish to visit certain Countries.
Why is it needed, what does it achieve when there is already domestic transmission, or in the longer term, high levels of vaccination of the population or vulnerable groups?

If you're supporting their introduction, you should also be making a case that border measures work and are cost effective. Up until 2020, the consensus was that there was no point in them.
 

Eyersey468

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The idea of a domestic vaccine passport/certificate to enter pubs, shops and restaurants or to get a job even, is quite frankly utterly ludicrous.

This alone goes against our civil liberties and gives credence to conspiracy theorists, many of who predicted that such a thing would be considered a year ago when the first lockdown happened.

It should be a choice, the elderly and vulnerable can get it if they feel they need it, but to force healthy, fit and young people to take this vaccine is sinister.

I’ve been following this story closely and there seems to be a vocal minority who want such an infringement of our civil liberties, people have had enough of lockdown and restrictions, the majority of people from what i can see on social media and on various forums I’m on are 90% against a domestic vaccine passport.

Bigger businesses like supermarkets May enforce this for a while but will quietly let it go, and for smaller businesses, restaurants and pubs it’ll be a non starter, they’ll want to entice customers back after a year of uncertainty and disruption not to mention the cost of having someone stand at the door checking for passports isn’t practical even if they get an existing member of staff to do so it’ll be far too awkward.

It’ll be political suicide for all the parties who favour this (the mainstream parties are on life support at this point) I just cannot see this happening, not unless they want mass marches, it’ll be a step too far, lawyers are already lining up wanting to take discrimination and human rights cases.

I’m myself am sceptical of vaccines as I’ve had the flu jab a few times and it’s never ended well for me, I’ve had a bad reaction to them so I maybe medically exempt, they work for others but for me not so much.
I agree if they try and mandate it domestically it will be political suicide. I can see some form of one being required certainly in the short term for international travel though

If we don't get mandatory vaccine passports in the UK then the law will need to make it illegal for businesses to insist of proof of vaccination before entering a pub/shop/restaurant/workplace/other premises. I don't think any businesses would try for fear of reputational damage and loss of business to competitors.

Personally as a fit and healthy 30 year old with no history of any significant illness I am happy to forgo vaccination and take the risk, which I believe to be rather low in my circumstances. The problem is other countries may demand proof of vaccination before one can enter or quarantine and a negative test. This alone is reason enough for me to get vaccinated as I want to be able to go abroad on holiday. I couldn't bear the thought of many countries outside the UK being off limits for the foreseeable future.
This is the reason I will be getting it, whilst I don't go abroad much and won't be this year I do have plans for next year abroad.
 

AlterEgo

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Why is it needed, what does it achieve when there is already domestic transmission, or in the longer term, high levels of vaccination of the population or vulnerable groups?

If you're supporting their introduction, you should also be making a case that border measures work and are cost effective. Up until 2020, the consensus was that there was no point in them.
You could make exactly the same case for an ESTA to visit the USA. Sure, I’m not going to commit any crimes there, and in fact almost nobody from the UK does (look at all the crimes committed by Americans in the US!!), but that’s the way the USA wants to do these things and that’s up to them, isn’t it?
 

NorthKent1989

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If we don't get mandatory vaccine passports in the UK then the law will need to make it illegal for businesses to insist of proof of vaccination before entering a pub/shop/restaurant/workplace/other premises. I don't think any businesses would try for fear of reputational damage and loss of business to competitors.

Personally as a fit and healthy 30 year old with no history of any significant illness I am happy to forgo vaccination and take the risk, which I believe to be rather low in my circumstances. The problem is other countries may demand proof of vaccination before one can enter or quarantine and a negative test. This alone is reason enough for me to get vaccinated as I want to be able to go abroad on holiday. I couldn't bear the thought of many countries outside the UK being off limits for the foreseeable future.

My mother used to work in a law firm, and she’s still in contact with a couple of old colleagues, one of her best friends has told her that there’s been meetings regarding this matter, it’s an issue that delves too deeply into religious reasons (most religions are against vaccines, rightly or wrongly not up to me to speak for them) also employment laws, human rights laws, lots of laws would have to be torn up and rewritten Overnight and many of those laws prevent discrimination and abuses against human rights.

International health passports are fair enough there’s literally nothing we can do about that and that’s fine, yellow fever health passports still exist in many countries.

I think the route this will go down is a on the door test which will be similar to track and trace and we know what happened to that, after a few weeks maybe a few months it’ll be quietly dropped by most venues

I agree if they try and mandate it domestically it will be political suicide. I can see some form of one being required certainly in the short term for international travel though

Indeed, I’m sure the authoritarian wings of the mainstream parties will want this but by and large we are a a Libertarian nation, and this will come off the back off one of the hardest periods of time in history, pubs, restaurants and shops will want to entice customers back, not put them off, Raab as ever opens his mouth before he even thinks about the consequences of his views.

Well said excellent post. As the polls Boris is still ahead despite a budget of massive tax hikes. I think people will vote for anybody I am voting SNP for the first time since 2007 in May I am sick and tried of Whitty Boris and Hancock.

Thank you.

2024 will be interesting on which party will win.

I can imagine the Reform U.K. party will come out the woodworks then, despite Farage not being their leader, but with us being out the EU and Covid being over by then I don’t know what platform they’ll use to battle the other parties.

The Tories and Labour are finished, there’s a general feeling that the public are done with them.

I can see there being more regional parties as a way of getting away from the Westminster establishment
 
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WelshBluebird

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The Tories and Labour are finished, there’s a general feeling that the public are done with them.

Not sure there's any evidence for that.
The latest polls still show relatively high levels of support for those two parties combined. Sure polls can be flawed but if what you claim was true I'd expect that to be reflected in the polls too.
 

packermac

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Not sure there's any evidence for that.
The latest polls still show relatively high levels of support for those two parties combined. Sure polls can be flawed but if what you claim was true I'd expect that to be reflected in the polls too.
Indeed England has effectively a two party system and the devolved nations are not much different really, maybe you could argue three parties.
Where is a credible third party going to come from in England by 2024, but in reality next year at the latest if they wanted any chance of being able to form a government.
History shows most vote one way or the other, it is just the few in the middle that swing general elections.
Perceived unpopularity (think Trump and Republican vs Democtrat) does not stop that person or party getting loads of votes at the next big electoral event.
 

LAX54

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Why is it needed, what does it achieve when there is already domestic transmission, or in the longer term, high levels of vaccination of the population or vulnerable groups?

If you're supporting their introduction, you should also be making a case that border measures work and are cost effective. Up until 2020, the consensus was that there was no point in them.
I said IF we need it to travel abroad fair enough, if a Country says that's what needed, then you have to abide by that, however domestic use I do not see as any use or workable, and as @AlterEgo said no one bats an eyelid at all the stuff you have to do to get an ESTA, and when you have one that does not mean they will allow you in when you get there, if you have told a Porky on the application !
 

Gadget88

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I said IF we need it to travel abroad fair enough, if a Country says that's what needed, then you have to abide by that, however domestic use I do not see as any use or workable, and as @AlterEgo said no one bats an eyelid at all the stuff you have to do to get an ESTA, and when you have one that does not mean they will allow you in when you get there, if you have told a Porky on the application !
A negative COVID result will be accepted for most. Or if you had covid and have immunity. Only Cyprus is demanding vaccination on entry.
 

Yew

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Hopefully Italy, just like Spain, Greece and Portugal, will also allow unvaccinated people to enter the country provided they are tested negative.
That's still a significant potential handicap for someone to which the vaccine has not yet been offered.
 
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