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Vaccine Passports/Permanent restrictions

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Peter Mugridge

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Also those adults that have had a first dose (i.e. me) are going to feel pretty pee'd off if there is the prospect of restrictions remaining in place despite the success of the vaccine rollout.

We took the vaccine on the understanding that it was going to be our "..way to freedom..." and getting our old life back, and as someone who usually votes Conservative, Boris needn't think he is getting my vote if he carries on with this idiotic plan.
Agreed.

I did not allow someone to recently stab me in the upper arm so that I would have to produce my papers or still wear a mask to get into anywhere or onto anything.
 
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NorthKent1989

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It does seem the goal posts keep changing, get vaccinated to return to normal, yet not only does normality now mean showing papers to have a coffee or a pint or do everyday things but now we can’t even meet indoors

Vaccinated people should not meet indoors because jabs "are not giving 100 per cent protection", the Prime Minister has warned.

In a Twitter video answering questions from the public, Boris Johnson said the country is "not yet" at the stage where families and friends can meet inside, even if they are immunised.

"We're still very much in a world where you can meet friends and family outdoors under the rule of six or two households," he said. "And even though your friends and family members may be vaccinated, the vaccines are not giving 100 per cent protection, and that's why we just need to be cautious.

"We don't think that they entirely reduce or remove the risk of transmission," the Prime Minister warned.
 
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102 fan

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It does seem the goal posts keep changing, get vaccinated to return to normal, yet not only does normality now mean showing nazi papers to have a coffee or a pint or do everyday things but now we can’t even meet indoors


So if the vaccine isn't 100% effective, how would a vaccine passport actually work?
 

Darandio

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That bloke won't be 'warning' me much longer. I should be due my first shot next month and i'll take it, i'll also still wear a mask where required but won't be visiting anywhere that requires papers. Once the second shot has been administered then i'm done and the mask is coming off for good. If that means a load of companies don't want my business, their loss.
 

NorthKent1989

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So if the vaccine isn't 100% effective, how would a vaccine passport actually work?

Good question, and it makes the vaccine passport utterly redundant
As Starmer has said if enough people are vaccinated and hospital admissions have dropped which they will then there is no point for them
 

Class 33

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Two little snippets of news from Sky News......

'I'm not an investigator': Pub landlord hits back at vaccine passports
Many pubs and bars have criticised the prime minister's suggestion that vaccine passports could be used to allow drinkers entry.
Steve Davis, who runs The Avon Packet in Bristol, is no exception.
He tells Sky News that he does not want the extra responsibility, saying: "The bottom line is we're here to serve beer and to take money.
"I'm not an investigator. I don't wanna check 'excuse me Chip, have you got your pass?'"
He adds: "Test and Trace was bad enough."

expanded thumbnail

I think many other publicans will be feeling just the same about this bonkers vaccine passport proposal!


And also......

Tory MP says he believes vaccine passport idea for pubs will be dropped

Conservative Tobias Ellwood has joined the voices criticising Boris Johnson's suggestion that vaccine passports could be used in pubs.

He said that while he could see such measures being used for international travel, it would be "wrong" to use them within the UK.

"We're almost out of the woods and it seems, I think, wrong to try and then impose some form of passport situation on a hospitality industry when if we bide our time, if we are careful about this, the R rating is beginning to fall," he told Sky News.

"We'll get our economy open by the summer anyway. Let's not actually test the tensions of the nation by dividing us in this way."

He said he believes "Number 10 is going to drop this now because a lot of voices right across the political picture have come forward and said this is not going to work."

Let's hope so!
 

kez19

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Good question, and it makes the vaccine passport utterly redundant
As Starmer has said if enough people are vaccinated and hospital admissions have dropped which they will then there is no point for them


Even at local level people I have spoken too don't even want it, who is driving this? Is it really the politicians or the media? (asked this before) but I am beginning to wonder if this is becoming a media driven "event", where politicians have the media over a barrel, where I think in this case it could be the media have politicians over a barrel. I know what I say maybe at a stretch but its odd as in how the media treats certain politicians whilst scolding others (there must be something in it for them behind the scenes we are not seeing?).
 

NorthKent1989

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Two little snippets of news from Sky News......



I think many other publicans will be feeling just the same about this bonkers vaccine passport proposal!


And also......



Let's hope so!

Judging by how vocal people have been about domestic passports and how negatively such measures have been received by the very same people who back lockdown initially, I do believe that these will be dropped.

Even at local level people I have spoken too don't even want it, who is driving this? Is it really the politicians or the media? (asked this before) but I am beginning to wonder if this is becoming a media driven "event", where politicians have the media over a barrel, where I think in this case it could be the media have politicians over a barrel. I know what I say maybe at a stretch but its odd as in how the media treats certain politicians whilst scolding others (there must be something in it for them behind the scenes we are not seeing?).

It does seem that the media has been holding the government over a barrel over this, Boris seems to react to what ever is said in the media
 

kez19

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Judging by how vocal people have been about domestic passports and how negatively such measures have been received by the very same people who back lockdown initially, I do believe that these will be dropped.



It does seem that the media has been holding the government over a barrel over this, Boris seems to react to what ever is said in the media

Its something I have said on here (not this thread) but this whole media in a way are complicit in this. I can look at it this way.

Nicola Sturgeon - media fawn over her both UK/Scottish - anything recently being held to account bounces off - yet copies Boris and anything fails no account (hence the fawn and again happy giving Boris a kick but not her).
Boris Johnson - media give him a kick in no matter the direction he goes, but yet seem to drive the situation but want to hold him to account no matter.

I just believe in general media are driving/controling this, its moved from being political where PM can decide truly the direction but media would rather choose for him.

As I said in terms of Nicola Sturgeon the direction she chooses be following Boris is less held to account even as an example the zero covid approach last summer (media don't hold her to account they just push over).

I find it rather amusing that Boris thinks people aren't already meeting indoors, vaccinated or not.


I just thought of something, if two people can't meet indoors does that include close family already vaccinated that you live with? If so thats totally blown out the water and how stupid these government(s) control are going/getting. Boris and devolved nations are definately in for a rude awakening I reckon, anyone got popcorn at the ready?
 
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RomeoCharlie71

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And that confirms it.

BREAKING: Social Distancing to be dropped this summer in places where people have either been vaccinated or tested

So places who accept clean people will be able to drop the anti-social distancing; venues with dirty people will have to keep it in place.

The full article is available here: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14533623/brits-pub-gardens-shops-hairdressers-open-lockdown-covid/, the relevant section says:
Mr Johnson is also expected to unveil plans for vaccine passports to allow businesses to drop social distancing measures this summer if they check punters have been jabbed or tested.
 

yorkie

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Government messaging is terrible; it appears to be along these lines:

Vaccines are okay but not great. People who are unhappy that they are not so great be should still get vaccinated because if you don't, you will have to continue to social distance. Therefore, get the vaccine to avoid the hassle of social distancing.

This is completely misleading and incorrect.

Surely this can't be happening!
 

kez19

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Government messaging is terrible; it appears to be along these lines:

Vaccines are okay but not great. People who are unhappy that they are not so great be should still get vaccinated because if you don't, you will have to continue to social distance. Therefore, get the vaccine to avoid the hassle of social distancing.

This is completely misleading and incorrect.

Surely this can't be happening!

The words crap and fan springs to mind
 

HSTEd

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Why is everyone so surprised?

It was inevitable that this would happen.

The roadmap wasn't worth the paper it was printed on - there will be permits for going to hospitality venues for the forseable future.
 

NorthKent1989

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And that confirms it.



So places who accept clean people will be able to drop the anti-social distancing; venues with dirty people will have to keep it in place.

The full article is available here: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14533623/brits-pub-gardens-shops-hairdressers-open-lockdown-covid/, the relevant section says:

There will still be pushback, who exactly is going to check on who’s been vaccinated and who hasn’t? Boris is milking this so he can look like a Churchill when in fact he’ll go down as a Hitler

MP’s and groups across the political spectrum are against this, the hospitality industry is against this, I can guarantee that “dirty pubs” will get more custom
 

Tomp94

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Covid Passports set to last for a year.
So we're NOT going back to "normal" in June!

Anyway, it's just a year of covid passports, its just 53 weeks into the 3 weeks to flatten the curve, its just one christmas, its just two easters, its just two mothers day, its just your wedding, its just children's education, its just your business, its just temporary!!!
 

Gadget88

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I’m confused a few posts said these proposals could be dropped then I read he will plough on ahead anyway?
 

NorthKent1989

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It’s like Boris doesn’t want to be PM anymore.

Good luck with passing vaccine passports because it’ll either fail or people will find ways around it

I’m confused a few posts said these proposals could be dropped then I read he will plough on ahead anyway?

There has been growing backlash but Boris seems determined to press ahead with it
 

brad465

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It does seem that the media has been holding the government over a barrel over this, Boris seems to react to what ever is said in the media

Its something I have said on here (not this thread) but this whole media in a way are complicit in this. I can look at it this way.

Nicola Sturgeon - media fawn over her both UK/Scottish - anything recently being held to account bounces off - yet copies Boris and anything fails no account (hence the fawn and again happy giving Boris a kick but not her).
Boris Johnson - media give him a kick in no matter the direction he goes, but yet seem to drive the situation but want to hold him to account no matter.

I just believe in general media are driving/controling this, its moved from being political where PM can decide truly the direction but media would rather choose for him.
The Media trying to lobby the Government for its interests is hardly new, they've been doing this for at least as long as Rupert Murdoch has owned many of the papers. That said they've exploited Johnson being weak and thus had more control over him than over previous Governments.
 

kez19

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The Media trying to lobby the Government for its interests is hardly new, they've been doing this for at least as long as Rupert Murdoch has owned many of the papers. That said they've exploited Johnson being weak and thus had more control over him than over previous Governments.


I remember the whole Murdoch thing and that’s going back to the last days of The News of the World!


I could say it this way has let the media control the situation, us in Scotland it’s more of Sturgeon controls the media shame really on both sides as it proves a point the media need now held to account too.

I still believe however that MSM shine is coming to an end and I think COVID in a way may come across as a success to them it’ll be their own downfall when dirt starts getting thrown (this just opinion and could be the next thing to come out in the wash)
 

yorkie

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Covid Passports set to last for a year...
For international travel they could potentially be required for a few years.

But for domestic use, I see only a limited lifespan.

If vaccine take-up is really high (which it would be if Government got its messaging right) then they should never be needed. They are arguably not viable until everyone has been offered the vaccine and the chance to get a valid vaccine passport issued; once nearly everyone has been vaccinated the whole concept is effectively redundant.

So by pressing ahead with this ludicrous plan, it's almost as if the Government expects take-up to be low.
 

Gadget88

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For international travel they could potentially be required for a few years.

But for domestic use, I see only a limited lifespan.

If vaccine take-up is really high (which it would be if Government got its messaging right) then they should never be needed. They are arguably not viable until everyone has been offered the vaccine and the chance to get a valid vaccine passport issued; once nearly everyone has been vaccinated the whole concept is effectively redundant.

So by pressing ahead with this ludicrous plan, it's almost as if the Government expects take-up to be low.
At what point would they end for international travel once most are vaccinated? What if rates are lower in France or will the virus just burn itself out? I agree though they won’t be going away in short term for travel but if we are going to treat this like the flu restrictions have it end too.
 

Class 33

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For international travel they could potentially be required for a few years.

But for domestic use, I see only a limited lifespan.

If vaccine take-up is really high (which it would be if Government got its messaging right) then they should never be needed. They are arguably not viable until everyone has been offered the vaccine and the chance to get a valid vaccine passport issued; once nearly everyone has been vaccinated the whole concept is effectively redundant.

So by pressing ahead with this ludicrous plan, it's almost as if the Government expects take-up to be low.

If this ludicrous plan does go ahead then yes hopefully it will only be for a limited lifespan, until the end of September. As that is when the recently extended Coronavirus legislation is due to expire. If there will be another vote in September for that legislation to be extended yet again for another 6 months, then surely by then with the absurdly low hospital numbers and daily Covid deaths by then - that parliament will have enough sense to overwhelmingly vote against this.
 

yorkie

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At what point would they end for international travel once most are vaccinated?
As stated before, I expect many countries will require passengers to be vaccinated or have a negative test to enter the country. We don't know what decisions will be taken by individual countries.

What if rates are lower in France
Ask Macron!

or will the virus just burn itself out?
As said before, I think the virus is endemic and will reach endemic equilibrium with seasonal cycles, as we see with other respiratory viruses. I could be wrong. No-one knows.

I agree though they won’t be going away in short term for travel but if we are going to treat this like the flu restrictions have it end too.
I think in the longer term not many countries are likely to deem it to be any more important than flu; indeed I believe the Sars-CoV-2 vaccines are going to be significantly more effective than influenza vaccines, and that influenza will be seen as the bigger threat. But I could be wrong and I do not know when that will happen in any given country that you may want to visit or whether any particular country may require vaccination against any particular virus as I just don't think anyone can really predict that, other than by making an educated guess.
 

HSTEd

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Vaccine passports, if introduced, will be permanent.

When no major resurgence occurs, because one probably won't happen, they will be the things that are credited for avoiding it.

There will be threats of mass deaths of photogenic grandparents unless they are kept peramenntly.
 

brad465

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And that confirms it.



So places who accept clean people will be able to drop the anti-social distancing; venues with dirty people will have to keep it in place.

The full article is available here: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14533623/brits-pub-gardens-shops-hairdressers-open-lockdown-covid/, the relevant section says:
Despite The Sun releasing this story it's not on their front page tomorrow, which is this instead:

1617404539135.png

We'll know exactly what the plans are come Johnson's announcement on Monday, where he's expected to give details on the Passport studying alongside the status of April 12th planned easements.
 

Tomp94

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For international travel they could potentially be required for a few years.

But for domestic use, I see only a limited lifespan.

If vaccine take-up is really high (which it would be if Government got its messaging right) then they should never be needed. They are arguably not viable until everyone has been offered the vaccine and the chance to get a valid vaccine passport issued; once nearly everyone has been vaccinated the whole concept is effectively redundant.

So by pressing ahead with this ludicrous plan, it's almost as if the Government expects take-up to be low.
I suspect the vaccine passport bit will be time limited, but it'll morph into a digital I.D very fast indeed.
 

MikeWM

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It does say that Starmer hasn’t said if his party is voting against them, but there are some big Corbyn allies who are against it, and seeing as Corbyn himself has said he will vote against them this will sway a lot of labour MPs who are still Corbynistas and will want to show their loyalty to him rather than Starmer.

Pleased to see that Corbyn, despite not getting much right about the approach to Covid for the last year, hasn't lost his principles on this most important of issues. Like his mentor Tony Benn, he was very strongly against ID cards previously - one of the many reasons I was somewhat of a fan of his.

Indeed it looks like a coalition is coming together that is remarkably similar in composition to that which opposed Blair's ID cards.

Every Government, once it has been in power too long, gets the ID card bug. Thatcher tried to introduce it for football, Major had it in his 1997 manifesto, and of course Blair almost managed to achieve it.

--

And that confirms it.



So places who accept clean people will be able to drop the anti-social distancing; venues with dirty people will have to keep it in place.

Given I thought that was exactly what the plan was a few days ago, sometimes I think I should give in and work for the evil side. I could charge consulting fees :-/

--

I suspect the vaccine passport bit will be time limited, but it'll morph into a digital I.D very fast indeed.

Yes, I'm sure the plan is to get us accustomed to the idea and the process. The current specific 'reason' for it is just a massively convenient gift for those who have wanted this for many years to get the concept introduced.
 
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