Vaccine Passports/Permanent restrictions

[bengley]

No time limit needed.

It just can't be allowed to start in the first place. It will never be temporary.

 

[dave87016]

I cannot help but feel that Boris has lied to the nation and pulled a fast one on us I say this because :

I had my Covid vaccination purely based on the fact Boris said this was our passport to freedom and normality he said if we are headed the right way and we are all restrictions would be lifted by June 21 , there was no mention of needing to plan ahead to visit a pub cafe cinema etc by having to take 2 negative tests 3 days apart no mention of having to produce papers to show I’ve been vaccinated infact no restrictions at all

Had Boris said people would need to do the above I wonder how many would have thought hang on why do I need it if our freedom is going to be littered with such restrictions and wouldn’t have had it

If they press ahead with it and the pubs hotels have to do it then in my opinion shops and supermarkets have to do it as it is imperative that it’s all or nothing you can’t single out the sectors which have already bore the brunt of the goverments lockdowns and handling of the whole Covid fiasco

 

[102 fan]

What form would it take? If no photographic ID is required, then counterfeit passports will be rife. If it will be like a driving licence, that does lend weight to the idea it's forever more.

 

[kez19]

Who is Mark Wright?

From TOWIE/The Only way is Essex or I believe he is on Heart at weekends

 

[Bantamzen]

Judging by how vocal people have been about domestic passports and how negatively such measures have been received by the very same people who back lockdown initially, I do believe that these will be dropped.



It does seem that the media has been holding the government over a barrel over this, Boris seems to react to what ever is said in the media

BoJo is a shallow, vain little man. All he cares about is his image, so if the media are leading him down a certain path then he will follow if he thinks it puts him in their good books. It is therefore up to us, the public to let both BoJo & media know that we will not accept this.

And that confirms it.

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1378083936375558151

So places who accept clean people will be able to drop the anti-social distancing; venues with dirty people will have to keep it in place.

The full article is available here: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14533623/brits-pub-gardens-shops-hairdressers-open-lockdown-covid/, the relevant section says:

Nothing is confirmed. The voices against this stupid idea are growing by the day. When hardcore Conservatives can get aboard something that Jeremy Corbyn is championing, you know the pressure is growing. What we cannot allow to happen is for the public to give up on opposing the idea. We all know that this isn't going to be workable for months at the very least, and when all citizens (both adults & children) are offered the vaccine it renders itself obsolete.

 

[kez19]

I cannot help but feel that Boris has lied to the nation and pulled a fast one on us I say this because :

I had my Covid vaccination purely based on the fact Boris said this was our passport to freedom and normality he said if we are headed the right way and we are all restrictions would be lifted by June 21 , there was no mention of needing to plan ahead to visit a pub cafe cinema etc by having to take 2 negative tests 3 days apart no mention of having to produce papers to show I’ve been vaccinated infact no restrictions at all

Had Boris said people would need to do the above I wonder how many would have thought hang on why do I need it if our freedom is going to be littered with such restrictions and wouldn’t have had it

If they press ahead with it and the pubs hotels have to do it then in my opinion shops and supermarkets have to do it as it is imperative that it’s all or nothing you can’t single out the sectors which have already bore the brunt of the goverments lockdowns and handling of the whole Covid fiasco

For me this I agree with and with some I spoken too in terms of being vaccinated thought the same thing. Personally I’m against even going down this route but on the other I am surprised why there had been no talk of these passports prior to jab.

Also in terms of vaccine passport apps, to me it didn’t take long for those to appear in App Store(s), clearly someone knows something that the public don’t!

 

[bengley]

For me this I agree with and with some I spoken too in terms of being vaccinated thought the same thing. Personally I’m against even going down this route but on the other I am surprised why there had been no talk of these passports prior to jab.

Also in terms of vaccine passport apps, to me it didn’t take long for those to appear in App Store(s), clearly someone knows something that the public don’t!

Aye, the MyGP app which my surgery uses has been advertising 'MyTICKet' for months now - literally to prove your vaccine status.

 

[Bantamzen]

For me this I agree with and with some I spoken too in terms of being vaccinated thought the same thing. Personally I’m against even going down this route but on the other I am surprised why there had been no talk of these passports prior to jab.

Also in terms of vaccine passport apps, to me it didn’t take long for those to appear in App Store(s), clearly someone knows something that the public don’t!

I shouldn't read too much into apps appearing, there will be people hoping to make a killing on them but in reality any such app would have to link to NHS systems & therefore be officially built / commissioned by the NHS.

 

[dave87016]

You have to wonder if Boris wants us to get back to normal as he is always throwing a spanner into the works with every positive step towards normality and freedom

 

[kez19]

I shouldn't read too much into apps appearing, there will be people hoping to make a killing on them but in reality any such app would have to link to NHS systems & therefore be officially built / commissioned by the NHS.

The only downfall I see of an NHS app is it’s not universal, in Scotland no app exists just that Protect Scotland app (there were talks of a universal UK app but nothing since or has the devolved nations stamping their feet over it?)

Aye, the MyGP app which my surgery uses has been advertising 'MyTICKet' for months now - literally to prove your vaccine status.

That’s one I did see appear, it’s strange if I look at it differently, GPs in England (guess here) are using apps to encourage their patients to use meanwhile up here (Scotland) none of this sort exists? It’s the unknown that gets me in general and this was prior COVID, seems in Scotland we are lagging behind

 

[Bantamzen]

The only downfall I see of an NHS app is it’s not universal, in Scotland no app exists just that Protect Scotland app (there were talks of a universal UK app but nothing since or has the devolved nations stamping their feet over it?)




That’s one I did see appear, it’s strange if I look at it differently, GPs in England (guess here) are using apps to encourage their patients to use meanwhile up here (Scotland) none of this sort exists? It’s the unknown that gets me in general and this was prior COVID, seems in Scotland we are lagging behind

Well the only way you could officially verify vaccinations is via the NHS, that's the only place the data exists (I can see my first jab only by using the NHS app, even the covid T&T app doesn't display it). If you take a look at some of the apps appearing, you'll see that either they've been developed for other countries or more likely just random builds to make a quick buck from the more naive smartphone users.

 

[kez19]

Well the only way you could officially verify vaccinations is via the NHS, that's the only place the data exists (I can see my first jab only by using the NHS app, even the covid T&T app doesn't display it). If you take a look at some of the apps appearing, you'll see that either they've been developed for other countries or more likely just random builds to make a quick buck from the more naive smartphone users.

That’s what I find a mess in all this so since I don’t have an app, if I was to take a trip to England and asked for proof via app I would have to tell people look me up on the database? Utter shambles! (not at NHS England seems a little thought has gone into it) but up here nothing, just a book to say second dose!

 

[Gadget88]

Scotland and Wales could make this easier for Johnston and opt out. Make
it England only show he is ruler of England only. Then see how opinion polls look. Remember Poll Tax?

 

[kez19]

Scotland and Wales could make this easier for Johnston and opt out. Make
it England only show he is ruler of England only. Then see how opinion polls look. Remember Poll Tax?

But aren’t the SNP “not opposed” to vaccine passports? So they’ll either back it down there or abstain?

The proof is in the pudding as I mentioned before Jason Leitch has been winging this idea but no one picks him up on it but because Boris is mentioning it, let’s hound him. So let’s be honest I’m all for people having a go at Boris so let’s get a proper answer from Sturgeon and the SNP are they wanting it or not, you can’t have it both ways and let alone have them vote for it in Westminster (place it on England) but nowhere else.


You mention the poll tax, but hey remember the SNP mention scrapping the council tax...still waiting

 

[DustyBin]

I think the extent to which vaccine passports will be required will be decided nearer to 21st June, depending on:-

• The percentage of people who have been vaccinated
• The number of new cases, and the number of people in hospital
• The level of opposition from MPs and the businesses which are affected
• Public opinion
• The local and national election results
• Whether there is the threat of any court cases, and legal opinion as to whether such court cases might succeed.

At the moment, the threat of vaccine passports is being used to cajole people who might be hesitant into having a vaccine.

Hence we have the somewhat pathetic statement by Oliver Dowden that "..it is not about vaccine passports, it is about COVID status certification...." What a load of nonsense. It is one thing to have "clean pubs" and "dirty pubs", but quite another to make people either "clean" or "dirty" depending on their "COVID status".

If the vaccine take up is sufficiently high, or if the government gets a bloody nose in the local elections, I think you will see vaccine passports quietly dropped, or at least reduced in scope so that they only apply to certain mass participation events.

Edit:-

Some good news though.

In a clear sign that the government is rattled by the level of opposition to vaccine passports, it has been reported that the government is going to make their use time limited, with the duration measured "..in months..".

But the opposition is not wearing this for one minute, saying it is the principle of vaccine passports (or so called "COVID Status Certification") that they are opposed to.

After all the broken promises by the government, who is going to believe them when they say that "COVID Status Certification" will be only be mandatory for "..a few months..."

Boris Johnson offers to set a 'time limit' on vaccine certificates

A 'time limit' of less than a year could be imposed on the vaccine passport scheme to head off a Tory revolt in the Commons, as Ministers believe the scheme may be essential.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I don’t particularly trust this government when it comes to time limits (or much else really) strangely enough!

No time limit needed.

It just can't be allowed to start in the first place. It will never be temporary.

Exactly, not only will it become permanent but I can well see it evolving into something more intrusive.

 

[yorkie]

Who is Mark Wright?

Some random footballer who has been on TV, but not the famous one who played for Liverpool!

Seems to be an excuse to have an article publicising how bad Covid can be for a small minority of people; significantly more people die of cancer, while the risk of being killed in a road traffic incident is significantly greater for the entire population now, but Covid is all that matters to the media. Anything to induce fear and compliance for these devastating measures being taken!

I suspect the vaccine passport bit will be time limited, but it'll morph into a digital I.D very fast indeed.

If they proceed with it then yes quite possibly.

 

[Class 33]

I agree. I wouldn't count this as absolutely definitely happening yet until Johnson's announcement on Monday. The press and media have got things wrong before that they said would be happening, and then they don't.

Also if it does happen, a "time limit" of less than a year is a bit ambiguous. That could mean anything from a month or two to just a day under a year! This certainly wouldn't be needed for as long as almost a year! This certainly wouldn't be needed for as long as a month or two! Indeed it shouldn't even be needed atall. And if Johnson puts this crazy idea to a vote in parliament, I hope it is very much heavily defeated and it won't be able to go ahead.

 

[chris11256]

Would the passport plan need new primary legislation, or could it be done by statutory instrument under the public health act, bypassing most of the scrutiny?

 

[Cdd89]

the risk of being killed in a road traffic incident is significantly greater for the entire population now, but Covid is all that matters to the media

And despite that a large number of people continue to choose to avoid public transport and drive instead. Some of those people will die and to the extent that this is in excess of the normal RTA death toll, those deaths will be directly attributable to fear.

 

[PHILIPE]

Indications are that Boris is supporting the Passport despite growing opposition. The problem with Bojo is that he can't work anything out himself but just relies on adopting ideas that have been floated from various sources. This puts him in the position of having to follow them through to give the impression that he is on top of the job and appearing to be competent and decisive in his decision making.

 

[bspahh]

Indications are that Boris is supporting the Passport despite growing opposition. The problem with Bojo is that he can't work anything out himself but just relies on adopting ideas that have been floated from various sources. This puts him in the position of having to follow them through to give the impression that he is on top of the job and appearing to be competent and decisive in his decision making.

I don't think Boris cares about appearing competent. We are in the run up to elections on May 6th, the newspapers are full of vaccine passports, and not about the economy. This is not a coincidence.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I don't think Boris cares about appearing competent. We are in the run up to elections on May 6th, the newspapers are full of vaccine passports, and not about the economy. This is not a coincidence.

<cynical hat on>
So is he planning to ‘look decisive’ about a week before polling day, and announce HE has scrapped the idea, to garner votes that he is certain to lose if this disgrace of an idea is brought in ?

 

[kez19]

Indications are that Boris is supporting the Passport despite growing opposition. The problem with Bojo is that he can't work anything out himself but just relies on adopting ideas that have been floated from various sources. This puts him in the position of having to follow them through to give the impression that he is on top of the job and appearing to be competent and decisive in his decision making.

We may as well say the PM for that matter is guided by sources more than using his own head to make decisions, I wonder if Hancock must get him up in the morning and dress him too?

If he and the devolved nations minsters had any guts in all this, they would find a solution/ways out than what seems to be a neverending cycle of playing the public for fools.

I think the public should waken up but maybe this is a quote we should go by...

“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, shame on both of us.” ― Stephen King,​

I think some are clicking onto this but even if there was a pushback I could see a greater resurgence towards all those in power (but those in power are blinded/include media.. so expect karma I reckon).

 

[Bikeman78]

But the opposition is not wearing this for one minute, saying it is the principle of vaccine passports (or so called "COVID Status Certification") that they are opposed to.

After all the broken promises by the government, who is going to believe them when they say that "COVID Status Certification" will be only be mandatory for "..a few months..."

Agreed. How stupid does Boris think we are? If it gets the go ahead, it will keep being extended.

 

[kez19]

Agreed. How stupid does Boris think we are? If it gets the go ahead, it will keep being extended.

Yet all of a sudden on the other hand we are meant to believe the opposition has finally grown a spine?, call me cynical but where have the opposition parties been since this started? More of holding hands throughout this.

 

[brad465]

<cynical hat on>
So is he planning to ‘look decisive’ about a week before polling day, and announce HE has scrapped the idea, to garner votes that he is certain to lose if this disgrace of an idea is brought in ?

If there is definitely a decent opposition in public to such passports, part of me does want him to announce them so that he loses support in the local elections, backs down on the policy and his departure from office accelerates. I accept though there's a lot of gambling in that thinking.

 

[Trackman]

"Ministers are hoping to pilot the use of vaccine passports at major events within weeks, with the FA Cup final and the World Snooker Championship among those being considered for trials"

This was from The Mail (I dont read it), so take it with a pinch of salt.
Does this mean they sussed out some kind of system already and how much is this costing?
It cannot be set up in 'weeks' from scratch.

Agreed. How stupid does Boris think we are?

Indeed, I really don't think he has a clue what is going on.

 

[dave87016]

Given many businesses have been closed for around a year , many people have lost their jobs businesses have closed for good , the numbers are looking so promising that we should be going back to our old normal way of life and freedom and this means LIFTING restrictions instead we are heading towards some kind of Boris Johnson normal WITH restrictions

As the PM he should be 100% behind getting us back to our old normal and giving us - at least domestically our freedom without restrictions or stipulations as if we are living in two realities at once

He should be determined to get businesses up and running again and the economy moving again he should be doing all the above for the UK for the economy for the businesses and for our mental health instead he seems to be going against that grain.

I feel that he is trying to please both sides ( the side that wants the old normal way of life , and those that want restrictions to remain in place ) and by doing this I think the Covid passport is ace up his sleeve if you will so that he has one hand on pulling another lockdown on us as if he lifted all the restrictions he kinda loses the power of being able to do that

 

[NorthKent1989]

If there is definitely a decent opposition in public to such passports, part of me does want him to announce them so that he loses support in the local elections, backs down on the policy and his departure from office accelerates. I accept though there's a lot of gambling in that thinking.

When you get Ian Duncan Smith and Diane Abbott agreeing on something like this, that’s how you know there is substantial opposition.

I too think this will Boris’s downfall, the Tories I predict will take a battering in May in favour of independent and new anti lockdown/restriction party
I wouldn’t be surprised if he faces a vote of no confidence if this is the outcome.

Given many businesses have been closed for around a year , many people have lost their jobs businesses have closed for good , the numbers are looking so promising that we should be going back to our old normal way of life and freedom and this means LIFTING restrictions instead we are heading towards some kind of Boris Johnson normal WITH restrictions

As the PM he should be 100% behind getting us back to our old normal and giving us - at least domestically our freedom without restrictions or stipulations as if we are living in two realities at once

He should be determined to get get businesses up and running again and the economy moving again he should be doing all the above for the UK for the economy for the businesses and for our mental health instead he seems to be going against that grain.

I think this will be down to us and small businesses like pubs, cafes and restaurants to bring back normality, I cannot see many venues enforcing any further restrictions, with or without the promise of ending social distancing, neither outcome will help the economy or jobs, it seems that everyone knows this fact, from the vaccinated to unvaccinated, from Tories to labour to Lib Dem’s, plus those in the hospitality industry, the only people who don’t know this are Boris himself and the dwindling locktavists

 

[Smidster]

I too think this will Boris’s downfall, the Tories I predict will take a battering in May in favour of independent and new anti lockdown/restriction party
I wouldn’t be surprised if he faces a vote of no confidence if this is the outcome.

This will not be the "downfall" of Johnson or the Conservative Party.

I would bet a significant sum that they will comfortably win the popular vote in England in the Local Elections - Of course they will lose the Mayoralty in London but that is to be expected (especially when the chap they nominated seems to be pretty much the most inept politician ever in the UK) but they may well prevent an SNP majority in Scotland and will be a solid second place in Wales.

They may well lose a few council seats in England but that is mainly because some of the seats they are defending this time round were from 2017 where they wiped the floor with Labour just before the General Election but that won't stop them winning the most votes and most seats.

I would love to be wrong but am very confident I won't be - Only redeeming feature of recent UK elections is I won a fair bit betting on the 2019 landslide!