Vaccine Passports/Permanent restrictions

[duncanp]

When you get Ian Duncan Smith and Diane Abbott agreeing on something like this, that’s how you know there is substantial opposition.

I too think this will Boris’s downfall, the Tories I predict will take a battering in May in favour of independent and new anti lockdown/restriction party
I wouldn’t be surprised if he faces a vote of no confidence if this is the outcome.



I think this will be down to us and small businesses like pubs, cafes and restaurants to bring back normality, I cannot see many venues enforcing any further restrictions, with or without the promise of ending social distancing, neither outcome will help the economy or jobs, it seems that everyone knows this fact, from the vaccinated to unvaccinated, from Tories to labour to Lib Dem’s, plus those in the hospitality industry, the only people who don’t know this are Boris himself and the dwindling locktavists

The review of social distancing, which will decide what arrangements are in place after 21st June, is due to take place some time in May, after the local elections.

If the Conservatives get a bloody nose, you can bet that the scope and duration of any vaccine passport scheme will be limited, probably to major events such as music festivals or some sporting events.

People will not tolerate the routine use of vaccine passports for everyday activities, especially going to the pub or watching a football match when the new season starts in August.

Even for foreign travel, vaccine passports or compulsory testing are not going to be popular if it means that people are effectively excluded from going abroad, as COVID testing can add several hundred pounds to the cost of a holiday for a family.

So I think Boris will come out with some waffle on Monday about vaccine passports and then just see which way the wind is blowing before making any decisions.

 

[nlogax]

This will not be the "downfall" of Johnson or the Conservative Party.

Precisely. Anyone thinking this will damage Johnson or even come close to holing the Tory ship below the waterline is at best very naive.

 

[Bantamzen]

Precisely. Anyone thinking this will damage Johnson or even come close to holing the Tory ship below the waterline is at best very naive.

On the contrary, Johnson is losing grip on his party with every passing day. The very fact that many senior MPs sat behind him are rallying against him speaks volumes. Johnson is damaged goods, and many in his party will be glad to pull the rug from under his feet. If he pursues the vaccine passport policy through to pubs opening fully in May, I honestly believe he will have little time left at No.10.

 

[Bikeman78]

Even for foreign travel, vaccine passports or compulsory testing are not going to be popular if it means that people are effectively excluded from going abroad, as COVID testing can add several hundred pounds to the cost of a holiday for a family.

Not to mention the risk of being stranded abroad if one of the family tests positive prior to the return journey.

 

[nlogax]

On the contrary, Johnson is losing grip on his party with every passing day. The very fact that many senior MPs sat behind him are rallying against him speaks volumes. Johnson is damaged goods, and many in his party will be glad to pull the rug from under his feet. If he pursues the vaccine passport policy through to pubs opening fully in May, I honestly believe he will have little time left at No.10.

Guess we'll have a clearer view in May / June. Am very confident in my view though.

 

[duncanp]

On the contrary, Johnson is losing grip on his party with every passing day. The very fact that many senior MPs sat behind him are rallying against him speaks volumes. Johnson is damaged goods, and many in his party will be glad to pull the rug from under his feet. If he pursues the vaccine passport policy through to pubs opening fully in May, I honestly believe he will have little time left at No.10.

Yes, just as the Poll Tax hastened the demise of Margaret Thatcher, the introduction of vaccine passports for everyday activities within the UK will do the same for Boris Johnson.

The roadmap said that all legal limits on social contact would be lifted from 21st June at the earliest.

It did not state that this lifting would be subject to any conditions, other than being guided by the data as to the timing.

If people are divided into being either "clean" or "dirty" depending on their COVID status, and "dirty" people are not allowed to fully enjoy the freedom that "clean" people are, then this will create a huge amount of discontent in the country which will not end well. It will be similar in many ways to the apartheid regime in South Africa, with certain settings reserved for people who are "clean".

You can be sure that if the local elections go badly for the Conservatives, then the idea of vaccine passports will be quietly dropped, or at least severely reduced in scope and duration.

 

[NorthKent1989]

On the contrary, Johnson is losing grip on his party with every passing day. The very fact that many senior MPs sat behind him are rallying against him speaks volumes. Johnson is damaged goods, and many in his party will be glad to pull the rug from under his feet. If he pursues the vaccine passport policy through to pubs opening fully in May, I honestly believe he will have little time left at No.10.

I give Johnson Jan 2022 to be honest, and that’s a generous time frame, I really think this will be his undoing, he’s saying one thing and doing another, vaccine passports won’t lead to economic recovery, it’ll be opening a can of worms, an illegal rave took place in Kent recently, zero social distancing as you could imagine, imagine thousands of more raves and underground pubs that could spring up? Prohibition has never worked, as you said a few pages ago, America is still dealing with the ramifications of prohibition and that was 100 years ago, domestic passports will create a whole new set of problems that Boris fails to see.

Precisely. Anyone thinking this will damage Johnson or even come close to holing the Tory ship below the waterline is at best very naive.

We’ve had a whole year of lockdowns since the 2019 General Election, Brexit is done with and for the majority of Boris time as elected PM he’a doing everything possible to wind up the very people who voted him in, I’m not sure if the Tories can recover from this, they might if Boris admits defeat and drops any idea of further restrictions and we return to normal of 2019 not a normal where one has to meet conditions in order to partake in society, I respect your opinion however

Yes, just as the Poll Tax hastened the demise of Margaret Thatcher, the introduction of vaccine passports for everyday activities within the UK will do the same for Boris Johnson.

The roadmap said that all legal limits on social contact would be lifted from 21st June at the earliest.

It did not state that this lifting would be subject to any conditions, other than being guided by the data as to the timing.

If people are divided into being either "clean" or "dirty" depending on their COVID status, and "dirty" people are not allowed to fully enjoy the freedom that "clean" people are, then this will create a huge amount of discontent in the country which will not end well. It will be similar in many ways to the apartheid regime in South Africa, with certain settings reserved for people who are "clean".

You can be sure that if the local elections go badly for the Conservatives, then the idea of vaccine passports will be quietly dropped, or at least severely reduced in scope and duration.

Good points.

Various Labour MP’s and civil liberties groups have spoken about the dangers of creating a two tier society, and how this can cause discrimination.

This is also his Poll Tax moment which ultimately destroyed Thatcher, only as you say, vaccine passports for domestic usages will most like be quietly dropped.

Baroness Shakrabati (I think that’s the right spelling) has cited that an international vaccine passport is completely different as travelling to a different country is a luxury, where as socialising and doing every day activities is a basic right.

I think Boris will compromise and probably have a passport for cinemas, theatres, nightclubs, sporting events and gigs, as they cannot afford social distancing but for Pubs and restaurants I reckon it’ll be back to 2019 levels of normality, but even then the whole things will eventually be dropped as even cinemas are struggling and are competing with Netflix and Amazon.

Personally I hope the whole idea as a whole is dropped as it’ll be a knee jerk reaction

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Want to visit Granny? Make sure to have your cleanliness certification ready!

Grandparents could use Covid passport app to screen birthday party guests

Government-backed app will be used by major events and could see fans sit in different parts of stadiums according to their virus status

www.telegraph.co.uk

Grandparents will be able to scan Covid passport apps before allowing family members into their birthday parties or gatherings under plans drawn up by a company developing a coronavirus passport app for the Government.

Anyone planning an event or party, in their own home or at a hired-out venue, will be handed the ability to stop them becoming superspreading events by scanning codes on guests phones, which will grant access if they are vaccinated, have a recent negative test or antibodies from recent infection.

The app will also be used by major events under plans that could see fans sit in different parts of sports stadiums according to their Covid status, according to Netcompany which has been handed a £3million contract to develop Covid certificates.

Office staff would only be allowed to access work places if they can show their Covid status on the app too.

Details are set out in a video of how Covid passports might work which has been posted online by the Danish business, which was hired by the Government on a 12 month contract to develop a digital Covid passport last November.

Last month Denmark appointed Netcompany to develop its coronavirus passport app, which the company said “will contribute to the reopening of society in Denmark”. Netcompany said the app could be ready next month.

Civil liberties campaigners are already sounding the alarm.

Jake Hurfurt, head of research and investigations at Big Brother Watch, said: "Netcompany’s chilling endorsement of segregated events and biosurveillance of our family members is a warning of the road Covid passes would lead us down.

“This contract shows that ministers misled Parliament and the public, claiming for months there were no plans for Covid passes and still claiming today that no decision has been made. This contract exposes the reality that work began on Covid certificates a long time ago.

“These draconian plans for a checkpoint nation are unnecessary, unworkable and un-British. The Prime Minister should be working to prohibit domestic Covid passes, not promote them."

The video, titled “Corona passport – how it works”, paints a number of different scenarios involving the fictitious Larssen family – Kasper, Pia and their 14 year old son Thomas.

It sets out how Kasper is vaccinated and then downloads a coronavirus “stay safe” app which contains a digital record in an encrypted QR code of his vaccination and its timing.

For children it can be used to demonstrate to authorities that they have recently tested negative for Covid-19 within the past 48 hours.

Staff can use it to demonstrate to employers that they can work safely with customers because of an up-to-date vaccination or a recent negative test.

A second “stay open” app can be downloaded and used to check that the digital coronavirus passport is valid.

It shows how airlines could access the app to check on passengers’ “corona status” before issuing a boarding card in one instance.

In another example, Netcompany tells how 'Kasper's grandma Joanne' wants to invite family and friends to celebrate her 75th birthday.

“Using the ‘stay open’ app, Grandpa Peter scans the guests before the party begins,” the video says. It adds that “in Denmark citizens need to have received vaccines A, B or C or have a negative test less than 24 hours old to join larger private events”.

Netcompany’s video also sets out how crowds could be segregated in sports stadiums, and allowed to sit together or must remain socially distanced, according to their Covid status.

Government documents seen by The Telegraph show that Netcompany won a £3million contract with “NHS Test & Trace Covid-19 [Redacted] App Programme” on Nov 26 2020.

Much of the contract is redacted. However under a section marked Schedule 1: Services, it says "the immediate engagements are related to Covid-19 certification and existing Tracing application.

“The certification application will comprise of [sic] the following functionality for ‘Day 1 Technical Release’ or the Initial Release”.

On Saturday a spokesman for Netcompany told The Telegraph: “We have no comments to make on our engagements related to Covid certification/passes.

“And [we] cannot confirm anything else than what can be found in the public available government contract.”

He added: “All scenarios and restrictions displayed in the video referred to in your email are fictitious and only serve the purpose of demonstrating examples of how Covid passes could be used in society.

“Therefore, this video does not reflect the solution defined or chosen by any government, but solely serves as imaginary examples.

“Government solutions would in general build on principles of frictionless and easy usage throughout all user interactions driven by privacy by design to maintain and build citizen trust in the reopening process.”

A government spokesman said: “No final decisions have been made on how a certification system might work in practice. Any such system that we use will take into account three factors: vaccination, a negative test and natural immunity.

“The review is considering a range of issues, including the ethical, equalities, privacy, legal and operational aspects and what limits, if any, should be placed on organisations using certification.”

I actually can't tell if they're taking the p!$$ with this or not.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Want to visit Granny? Make sure to have your cleanliness certification ready!

Grandparents could use Covid passport app to screen birthday party guests

Government-backed app will be used by major events and could see fans sit in different parts of stadiums according to their virus status

www.telegraph.co.uk

I actually can't tell if they're taking the p!$$ with this or not.

I mean.... it does feel that the more ludicrous things get with this more people will get fed up with how ridiculous this is becoming and go back to normal on their own terms.

It does seem horribly sinister though.

 

[bramling]

I mean.... it does feel that the more ludicrous things get with this more people will get fed up with how ridiculous this is becoming and go back to normal on their own terms.

It does seem horribly sinister though.

This all has to be a wind-up, surely.

Dividing people into clean and dirty is sinister for sure.

 

[NorthKent1989]

This all has to be a wind-up, surely.

Dividing people into clean and dirty is sinister for sure.

I never thought any government of ours would even consider such draconian measures.

As long as more MP’s and civil liberties groups keep speaking out against them then this doesn’t have a chance of becoming a reality.

At worst pubs and restaurants won’t require a passport but larger events like sports, gigs, nightclubs, cinemas and theatres will, at best the whole thing gets quietly forgotten either way Boris is on borrowed time at this point and domestic passports will be binned off

 

[bramling]

I never thought any government of ours would even consider such draconian measures.

As long as more MP’s and civil liberties groups keep speaking out against them then this doesn’t have a chance of becoming a reality.

At worst pubs and restaurants won’t require a passport but larger events like sports, gigs, nightclubs, cinemas and theatres will, at best the whole thing gets quietly forgotten either way Boris is on borrowed time at this point and domestic passports will be binned off

I don’t know, I get the feeling there’s a fair few people who like the idea of other “dirty” people being barred from places, reserved only for their good “clean” selves.

This could happen IMO, mad though it is.

 

[Bikeman78]

Want to visit Granny? Make sure to have your cleanliness certification ready!

Grandparents could use Covid passport app to screen birthday party guests

Government-backed app will be used by major events and could see fans sit in different parts of stadiums according to their virus status

www.telegraph.co.uk

I actually can't tell if they're taking the p!$$ with this or not.

My kids saw their grandparents last year. They even sat on their laps. To add to the horror, we went there by train. No one died.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I don’t know, I get the feeling there’s a fair few people who like the idea of other “dirty” people being barred from places, reserved only for their good “clean” selves.

This could happen IMO, mad though it is.

There are, but I’m convinced that they’re in the minority now, albeit a very vocal one.

I doubt a pub landlord would turn away business from anyone regardless of their vax status, ironically it’ll be the “Covid separatists” who won’t be the majority costumer in pubs, invariably they’ll stay home if they feel unsafe even though they have the vaccine

 

[kez19]

Want to visit Granny? Make sure to have your cleanliness certification ready!

Grandparents could use Covid passport app to screen birthday party guests

Government-backed app will be used by major events and could see fans sit in different parts of stadiums according to their virus status

www.telegraph.co.uk

I actually can't tell if they're taking the p!$$ with this or not.

Any chance we can see the app on our politicians to decide if they are clean or dirty ...wait wishful thinking here!

 

[Class 33]

Well, Johnson is backing down a bit on his plans for vaccine passports....

Boris Johnson ditches pub vaccine passport plans in hospitality boost

BORIS Johnson has ditched plans to force customers to show a vaccine passport every time they go into a pub. In a major boost for the hospitality trade, the PM will exempt bars and restaurants from…

www.thesun.co.uk

PUBS GET A FREE PASS

Boris Johnson ditches plans to force customers to show Covid vaccine passport when they visit the pub​

BORIS Johnson has ditched plans to force customers to show a vaccine passport every time they go into a pub.

In a major boost for the hospitality trade, the PM will exempt bars and restaurants from new Covid safety rules.

Only those attending mass gatherings, such as festivals or major sports events, will be required to provide proof of a jab, test or natural immunity.

Landlords, who can reopen outdoors-only a week tomorrow in England, will soon be free to admit anyone who follows existing guidelines on social distancing and mask-wearing.

Boris’s change of heart came after an angry backlash from 72 MPs who branded the idea “divisive and discriminatory”.


But he will tomorrow announce his determination to press ahead with a “vaccine certification” system for larger venues from next month.

NHS chiefs are developing a new app members of the public will have to show to gain access to sports stadiums, theatres, festivals and nightclubs.

Those without a smartphone will get a paper certificate.

The system will be trialled at nine pilot events over the next few weeks, where experts will also explore how high-tech ventilation and Covid tests on entry are working.


Mr Johnson will study the feedback to help decide how to manage other large-scale gatherings as restrictions are lifted.

The PM said: “We are doing everything we can to enable the reopening of our country so people can return to the events, travel and other things they love as safely as possible, and these reviews will play an important role in allowing this to happen.”

Liverpool will be a key test centre for the opening up of the rest of the country — with four pilot events being held at a comedy club, a cinema, a nightclub and a business conference arena from next week.

And some fans will be allowed at Wembley for the Carabao Cup final on April 25, the FA Cup final on May 15 and a semi-final on April 18.

The World Snooker Championship in Sheffield and a mass participation run at Hatfield, Herts, are also involved.

Scientific advisers will use evidence from the nine pilots to assess transmission risks in different settings.

An insider said: “These events will not only be used to try out the new Covid passport.


3
Landlords can reopen outdoors-only a week tomorrow in England and will soon be free to admit anyone who follows existing guidelines on social distancing and mask-wearingCredit: Getty


"We’ll have lots of eyes and ears and systems gathering a mass of data.

"What we learn in the next few weeks will be crucial to how we proceed into step three of the unlocking process on May 17.”

A review of social distancing will address a looming decision — how and when the one-metre rule and working for home guidance can safely be lifted.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

On the contrary, Johnson is losing grip on his party with every passing day. The very fact that many senior MPs sat behind him are rallying against him speaks volumes. Johnson is damaged goods, and many in his party will be glad to pull the rug from under his feet. If he pursues the vaccine passport policy through to pubs opening fully in May, I honestly believe he will have little time left at No.10.

Most Tories say one thing but majority will always support govt as there spineless individuals only interested in themselves. The UK form of government is corrupt and its needs PR otherwise there are no restraints on the executive as we see now. However, the 2019 election has set that back years and all those that voted this lot in have only got themselves to blame now. As Private Frazer says we are doomed i tell you we are doomed

 

[farleigh]

My kids saw their grandparents last year. They even sat on their laps. To add to the horror, we went there by train. No one died.

Good on you - right thing to do IMO

 

[brad465]

Well, Johnson is backing down a bit on his plans for vaccine passports....

Boris Johnson ditches pub vaccine passport plans in hospitality boost

BORIS Johnson has ditched plans to force customers to show a vaccine passport every time they go into a pub. In a major boost for the hospitality trade, the PM will exempt bars and restaurants from…

www.thesun.co.uk

In a major boost for the hospitality trade, the PM will exempt bars and restaurants from new Covid safety rules.

It's a start, but does also show how weak and easily influenced he is (not that we didn't already know that).

 

[takno]

Well, Johnson is backing down a bit on his plans for vaccine passports....

Boris Johnson ditches pub vaccine passport plans in hospitality boost

BORIS Johnson has ditched plans to force customers to show a vaccine passport every time they go into a pub. In a major boost for the hospitality trade, the PM will exempt bars and restaurants from…

www.thesun.co.uk

In a major boost for the hospitality trade, the PM will exempt bars and restaurants from new Covid safety rules.

He's backing down a bit in order to try to divide the opposition. The trouble is that the whole concept needs to not exist at all for domestic scenarios. The more focused it is on a limited range of venues, the more it will be deemed "reasonable" to keep it in place forever. Also note the ongoing social distancing and masks in pubs

 

[bramling]

It's a start, but does also show how weak and easily influenced he is (not that we didn't already know that).

It’s certainly a(nother) u-turn...

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The risk is that a system will still be introduced, from which some (or many) things are exempted. Once the system has bedded in, the list of exemptions starts shrinking.

 

[Class 33]

He's backing down a bit in order to try to divide the opposition. The trouble is that the whole concept needs to not exist at all for domestic scenarios. The more focused it is on a limited range of venues, the more it will be deemed "reasonable" to keep it in place forever. Also note the ongoing social distancing and masks in pubs

Well the article does still say that a review of social distancing(and face mask wearing) is still coming up, so both could still go on 21st June. And by then I don't know how an earth they can continue to justify keeping these restrictions going any longer than that.

Social distancing, socially distanced. God, I absolutely detest these phrases that were introduced last year! They have got to be the most grating phrases ever in my opinion! Can't wait till the time(fairly soon hopefully) when we finally stop hearing and seeing these damn words!

 

[brad465]

He's backing down a bit in order to try to divide the opposition. The trouble is that the whole concept needs to not exist at all for domestic scenarios. The more focused it is on a limited range of venues, the more it will be deemed "reasonable" to keep it in place forever. Also note the ongoing social distancing and masks in pubs

While the two main problem areas of pubs and restaurants have been removed from this proposed backing down, there are some on the requirement list that kind of have a symbiotic relationship in trade with venues now exempted. For example, while pubs and restaurants are exempt on that proposal, Theatres, some concerts, cinemas and nightclubs support pub and restaurant trade as people often go to them before (mostly in the case of nightclubs for pre drinks) and/or after. If one needs a vaccine passport to attend large events but can't/won't do so because a passport is required, they're also by default not as likely to go to a pub or restaurant.

 

[nlogax]

It’s certainly a(nother) u-turn...

And this is exactly why Boris Johnson isn't in any danger as PM. He'll do anything and make any required u-turn to stay in power, whether it's the right thing or not. I'm sure in this case he's been made well aware that vaccine passports for bars and restaurants are an asinine and unworkable idea.

Can't wait for the next twist in this spactacularly crap saga.

 

[bramling]

And this is exactly why Boris Johnson isn't in any danger as PM. He'll do anything and make any required u-turn to stay in power, whether it's the right thing or not. I'm sure in this case he's been made well aware that vaccine passports for bars and restaurants are an asinine and unworkable idea.

Can't wait for the next twist in this spactacularly crap saga.

The whole thing is just so depressing, how incompetently everything has been handled. About the only good thing has, thankfully, been the vaccine programme itself, which it seems Johnson has kept well away from.

I just hope they get a kicking in the local elections, and that perhaps focusses some minds that Johnson is a liability. It’s rather unfortunate that the relative success of the vaccine programme has shored up Johnson’s position a bit - a few months ago I’d have said it was a dead cert he’d be gone this summer, unfortunately I’m not so sure now.

 

[johntea]

https://www.twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1378447548738904072

Included : Major sports stadiums, Nightclubs, Festivals, Theatres, Concert Venues, Cinemas

Excluded : Pubs, Restaurants, Non Essential Shops, Buses, Trains, Hotels

Just heard on the ITV News they're beginning 'trials' at a few venues within the next couple of weeks, such as the Snooker championship...

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

From Nick Eardley's Twitter (BBC reporter, usually pretty up to scratch with these things): https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1378459799269048321

PM to confirm on Monday that "Covid-status certification" system being developed.

Ministers believe it will be most useful for mass spectator events.

Not just vaccine passports - a negative test or immunity based on recently having had the virus would allow access too.

Govt says certification will NOT be used for public transport or essential shops.

Will NOT be needed for pubs and restaurants when they re-open in the coming weeks.

But No 10 not ruling them out further down the line - perhaps to reduce social distancing requirements.

 

[Tomp94]

I wonder if individual venus such as attractions like Lego Land or Thorpe Park would bring them in?

I work in a community centre, which hosts many social and business events/meetings. I will do everything possible to ensure my place of work does not implement this dystopian nonsense

 

[Cdd89]

I am wholly against vaccine passports being used domestically in any context, and also against any restrictions that are not absolutely necessary.

However, many of those opposing domestic vaccine passports have over the last twelve months been quite happy for lockdown measures to continue for ages, and indeed called for Zero Covid. It needs to be made clear to anyone opposing vaccine passports that they must also oppose any lockdowns or restrictions that are not imminently necessary to protect critical healthcare; in other words they need to pick a side.

Anyone against vaccine passports who isn’t also calling for things to reopen today and for nightclubs to reopen very soon is a hypocrite in my book. If they refuse to do so, then I may find myself regrettably deeming domestic vaccine passports to be the lesser of two (horrible) evils.