Vaccine Passports/Permanent restrictions

[ainsworth74]

Not everyone will have been offered the vacine for some time yet. The young and healthy who have made big sacrifices for others could be the last to get freedom. If that was me I'd be seriously fed up.

Yeah but we make the fatal error of not voting Tory so they don't really care if we get fed up as long those who do vote Tory can get back to normal and thank their lord and saviour Boris for releasing them from purgatory. Statistically I'd think a comfortable majority of their voters have now had the vaccine so would be able to take part in any vaccine passport scheme hence, who cares about the young?

 

[duncanp]

Yeah but we make the fatal error of not voting Tory so they don't really care if we get fed up as long those who do vote Tory can get back to normal and thank their lord and saviour Boris for releasing them from purgatory. Statistically I'd think a comfortable majority of their voters have now had the vaccine so would be able to take part in any vaccine passport scheme hence, who cares about the young?

By the time of the local elections on 7th May, about one third of adults will still be waiting for their first dose of vaccine.

Also those adults that have had a first dose (ie. me) are going to feel pretty pee'd off if there is the prospect of restrictions remaining in place despite the success of the vaccine rollout.

We took the vaccine on the understanding that it was going to be our "..way to freedom..." and getting our old life back, and as someone who usually votes Conservative, Boris needn't think he is getting my vote if he carries on with this idiotic plan.

 

[ainsworth74]

By the time of the local elections on 7th May, about one third of adults will still be waiting for their first dose of vaccine.

Also those adults that have had a first dose (ie. me) are going to feel pretty pee'd off if there is the prospect of restrictions remaining in place despite the success of the vaccine rollout.

We took the vaccine on the understanding that it was going to be our "..way to freedom..." and getting our old life back, and as someone who usually votes Conservative, Boris needn't think he is getting my vote if he carries on with this idiotic plan.

Perhaps I'm unduly pessimistic but certainly the polling data suggests that Boris and Co have nothing to worry about in terms of undermining their voter base. Plus I'd bet that the majority of that third that are still waiting (such as myself) were never likely to vote Tory anyway. I can't recall the exact point off the top of my head but I'm sure at the 2019 General Election it was something like if you were under-50 you likely voted Labour/Lib Dem/etc and if you were over-50 you likely voted Tory (with the trends getting stronger as you got younger/older).

 

[nlogax]

Good article explaining Israel's current situation. The more I read it the more I'm convinced we're not far behind a very similar scenario. Worth focusing on a couple of positive points; even with the Green Pass system in place not all businesses are actively enforcing it, instead just assuming that vaccinations have been had. Also, while masks are still mandatory they appear to be decreasingly used.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/02/really-good-place-israel-nearing-covid-endgame

'We’re in a really good place': is Israel nearing the Covid endgame?​

Vaccination centres are winding down and infections continue to fall as country reopens

 

[NorthKent1989]

I can see a lot country pubs, plus those in towns and cities that are off the beaten track, just quietly ignoring the rules.

Rather like the situation before they changed the licensing laws in 2005 when some pubs would close the doors and curtains at 11pm and carry on serving until the early hours of the morning.

Pregnant women are another group who would be excluded from pubs and other venues under these rules. I can foresee a court case if Boris goes ahead with vaccine passports.

And if he tries to impose the rules on pubs, but not cafes and other indoor settings, then someone like Tim Martin from Wetherspoons is also likely to launch a legal challenge.

Indeed, seeing as the reaction to these passports has been negative, I would say that it’s a 60/40 split.

Those opposed to these are citing civil liberties and saying that venues could be sued for discrimination.

You’re right that out of the way towns and villages will ignore these rules if it goes ahead, I think they will only enforced in large cities, even then the hospitality industry as a whole seems dead set against the whole idea

Senior Tories join Jeremy Corbyn to oppose Covid passports ahead of trials

More than 70 MPs on right and left oppose domestic use of certificates, as testing pilots are planned for football matches

www.theguardian.com

It does say that Starmer hasn’t said if his party is voting against them, but there are some big Corbyn allies who are against it, and seeing as Corbyn himself has said he will vote against them this will sway a lot of labour MPs who are still Corbynistas and will want to show their loyalty to him rather than Starmer.

Other groups have also cited concerns, one cited that international travel is a luxury but traveling within our own borders to do basic every day activities is a basic human right, it does seem that we may be exiting out of this mess in better way than I had imagined, ID cards have never been popular and have been rejected time and time again.

 

[kez19]

Indeed, seeing as the reaction to these passports has been negative, I would say that it’s a 60/40 split.

Those opposed to these are citing civil liberties and saying that venues could be sued for discrimination.

You’re right that out of the way towns and villages will ignore these rules if it goes ahead, I think they will only enforced in large cities, even then the hospitality industry as a whole seems dead set against the whole idea

Senior Tories join Jeremy Corbyn to oppose Covid passports ahead of trials

More than 70 MPs on right and left oppose domestic use of certificates, as testing pilots are planned for football matches

www.theguardian.com

It does say that Starmer hasn’t said if his party is voting against them, but there are some big Corbyn allies who are against it, and seeing as Corbyn himself has said he will vote against them this will sway a lot of labour MPs who are still Corbynistas and will want to show their loyalty to him rather than Starmer.

Other groups have also cited concerns, one cited that international travel is a luxury but traveling within our own borders to do basic every day activities is a basic human right, it does seem that we may be exiting out of this mess in better way than I had imagined, ID cards have never been popular and have been rejected time and time again.

Maybe asking something stupid is Jeremy Corbyn still in politics I thought he retired? Saying that I be surprised if he is speaking out he is trying to challenge Starmer to change his views? (not keen on either) but isn’t it strange those prior to Starmer/Johnson speak out against? May/Corbyn?

 

[DustyBin]

Maybe asking something stupid is Jeremy Corbyn still in politics I thought he retired? Saying that I be surprised if he is speaking out he is trying to challenge Starmer to change his views? (not keen on either) but isn’t it strange those prior to Starmer/Johnson speak out against? May/Corbyn?

He’s an independent currently.

 

[Ediswan]

I can see a lot country pubs, plus those in towns and cities that are off the beaten track, just quietly ignoring the rules.

I could name one where the regulars paid little attention to the first set of restrictions. But they don't pay full attention to the drink driving laws either. There is a mini rush hour of Land Rovers etc. at chucking out time. I'm not going to name it because I want it to stay in business (which it seems to be).

 

[NorthKent1989]

Maybe asking something stupid is Jeremy Corbyn still in politics I thought he retired? Saying that I be surprised if he is speaking out he is trying to challenge Starmer to change his views? (not keen on either) but isn’t it strange those prior to Starmer/Johnson speak out against? May/Corbyn?

I think Corbyn is still an MP for Islington if I’m correct, I don’t think he’s retired yet.

Yes it is rather telling that the predecessors to Johnson/Starmer are planning to vote against it, Corbyn I imagine would be against domestic passports.

He’s an independent currently.

Thought as much

 

[kez19]

He’s an independent currently.

Yet it’s also some independent parties that speak out! How does the public try to get some of these parties in? I know at times independent parties get called loonies but surely this has got to be a route to go and to at least ruffle feathers?

 

[NorthKent1989]

Yet it’s also some independent parties that speak out! How does the public try to get some of these parties in? I know at times independent parties get called loonies but surely this has got to be a route to go and to at least ruffle feathers?

I know a few people who will be voting for independent candidates or the new fringe parties in the upcoming May elections.

I think the Tories will take a battering because they’ve displeased the locktavists for “delaying lockdown” and those who want normal freedoms back because for many lockdown has gone on too long

 

[duncanp]

I know a few people who will be voting for independent candidates or the new fringe parties in the upcoming May elections.

I think the Tories will take a battering because they’ve displeased the locktavists for “delaying lockdown” and those who want normal freedoms back because for many lockdown has gone on too long

In the election for police and crime commissioner for the West Midlands, I am going to vote for Julie Hambleton.

She is a campaigner for justice for those killed in the Birmingham pub bombings in 1974, and on 21st November last year, which was the anniversary of the bombings and was also during England's second lockdown, she was fined £200 for taking part in an "..illegal gathering...". She has refused to pay the fine and is now being prosecuted.

It is just my way of sticking two fingers up at all the locktivists, coronaphobes, police bullies and everyone else who has made my life, and everyone else's life, so much of a misery over the past year.

Boris Johnson, you can insert your vaccine passports somewhere where the sun doesn't shine.

Birmingham pub bombings campaigner denies lockdown breach

Fines were issued after a memorial event marking the anniversary of the 1974 attacks in Birmingham.

www.bbc.co.uk

A Birmingham pub bombings campaigner has denied breaking coronavirus lockdown rules at an anniversary event.
Julie Hambleton, whose sister Maxine died in the 1974 attacks, was fined after being accused of attending an illegal gathering "of more than two people" in November 2020.
Miss Hambleton, of Crossway Lane, Birmingham, appeared with two other men at Birmingham Magistrates' Court on Tuesday after failing to pay the £200 fine.
She is set to stand trial in September.
The 58-year-old is accused of joining a gathering near West Midlands Police headquarters on 21 November.

Miss Hambleton, who is a candidate in the West Midlands Police and Crime Commissioner elections in May, pleaded not guilty.
At the time, England was subject to the second lockdown, before the tier system was introduced on 2 December.


Kevin Gormley, 53, of Beacon Road, Birmingham, and 54-year-old Michael Lutwyche, of Hales Grove, Birmingham, also denied the charge.

Philip Rule, representing the three defendants, said the Crown Prosecution Service had been asked to review "whether the prosecution is to continue in the public interest".

 

[NorthKent1989]

In the election for police and crime commissioner for the West Midlands, I am going to vote for Julie Hambleton.

She is a campaigner for justice for those killed in the Birmingham pub bombings in 1974, and on 21st November last year, which was the anniversary of the bombings and was also during England's second lockdown, she was fined £200 for taking part in an "..illegal gathering...". She has refused to pay the fine and is now being prosecuted.

It is just my way of sticking two fingers up at all the locktivists, coronaphobes, police bullies and everyone else who has made my life, and everyone else's life, so much of a misery over the past year.

Boris Johnson, you can insert your vaccine passports somewhere where the sun doesn't shine.

Birmingham pub bombings campaigner denies lockdown breach

Fines were issued after a memorial event marking the anniversary of the 1974 attacks in Birmingham.

www.bbc.co.uk

She sounds like some one I would vote for if I lived in the West Midlands, good luck to her, I’m voting for Lawrence Fox but Piers Corbyn has also been on the radar as well so I may consider voting for him as he has been pretty vocal about all of this (more so than his brother Jeremy)

It’s about time we kicked the authoritarians to the curb, and actually return to normal, no ifs, no buts, no conditions, vaccines should be a choice and no one should be coerced or blackmailed into getting one.

There has been enough misery this past year and I don’t see why we should lose any more of our civil liberties for a virus that we will have to live with

 

[duncanp]

She sounds like some one I would vote for if I lived in the West Midlands, good luck to her, I’m voting for Lawrence Fox but Piers Corbyn has also been on the radar as well so I may consider voting for him as he has been pretty vocal about all of this (more so than his brother Jeremy)

It’s about time we kicked the authoritarians to the curb, and actually return to normal, no ifs, no buts, no conditions, vaccines should be a choice and no one should be coerced or blackmailed into getting one.

The "..illegal gathering..." she was fined for taking part in was a memorial event for those killed in the bombings. It took place in front of West Midlands police headquarters, and this is the real reason why she was fined. (to dissuade her from embarrassing the police and the authorities)

When you consider the Black Lives Matter protests that were allowed to take place last year with no intervention, and police even "taking the knee", there is no logical reason why a small gathering in the open air should not have been allowed to continue.

Reform UK have a candidate in the election for West Midlands Mayor, who may well get my vote, as will any candidates from Reform UK who stand in the elections for Sandwell Council.

 

[NorthKent1989]

The "..illegal gathering..." she was fined for taking part in was a memorial event for those killed in the bombings. It took place in front of West Midlands police headquarters, and this is the real reason why she was fined. (to dissuade her from embarrassing the police and the authorities)

When you consider the Black Lives Matter protests that were allowed to take place last year with no intervention, and police even "taking the knee", there is no logical reason why a small gathering in the open air should not have been allowed to continue.

Reform UK have a candidate in the election for West Midlands Mayor, who may well get my vote, as will any candidates from Reform UK who stand in the elections for Sandwell Council.

Exactly, the BLM riots went ahead and I don’t recall Priti Patel discussing banning protests back then? The vigil for Sarah Everard takes place and all of a sudden we can’t protest anymore.

Seems to me this government is very selective on who they target

 

[kez19]

I know a few people who will be voting for independent candidates or the new fringe parties in the upcoming May elections.

I think the Tories will take a battering because they’ve displeased the locktavists for “delaying lockdown” and those who want normal freedoms back because for many lockdown has gone on too long

I’m looking out for them too but I even doubt they’ll make an impact or even if they do it’s a start

Exactly, the BLM riots went ahead and I don’t recall Priti Patel discussing banning protests back then? The vigil for Sarah Everard takes place and all of a sudden we can’t protest anymore.

Seems to me this government is very selective on who they target

Just like all things politicians have selective memory have you met ours in Scotland? I agree regardless

 

[TPO]

I’m still lukewarm at best on the vaccine, having moved from being slightly sceptical. However I am getting sick of the way people are now poking their nose into whether someone else has chosen to be vaccinated, and I object to some of the nastiness we’re now starting to see in this subject, it’s masks mk2.

If I do decide to have it, it’s certainly no one else’s business whether I have or not. Plus I don’t like the idea of a society where we have to flash papers around, if nothing else it’s a nuisance.

The state and the public will place enormous social and legal pressure upon you to continue complying.

And the vast majority of peopel will.

Yeah but we make the fatal error of not voting Tory so they don't really care if we get fed up as long those who do vote Tory can get back to normal and thank their lord and saviour Boris for releasing them from purgatory. Statistically I'd think a comfortable majority of their voters have now had the vaccine so would be able to take part in any vaccine passport scheme hence, who cares about the young?

Very much agree/concur with those quoted.

It's interesting to see who is out and about and how they behave. Doing the "mask dance" and flaunting their pro-social credentials (new form of virtue signalling?). Don't need stuff but browsing in shops for entertainment. Probably all support vaccine passports as they are already in the privledged class. Lets face it, masks are there as the outward symbol of virtue. Why otherwise wear it in your car (no one else in there, hardly any traffic about either).

This BBC article is worth a read: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56605598 that such a diverse bunch of MPs opposes mandatory ID cards disguised as COVID papers says much. The referenced Big Brother Watch report is also worth a read: https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Access-Denied-Big-Brother-Watch.pdf

It is all quite concerning. I wonder what the views fo the rail unions are, I hope they come out against vaccine passports (and continued use of masks), it's a pity Labour seems unable to grow a spine and start being a proper opposition and challenging the theft of our basic rights; if they did I would probably vote for them in May, as it is I am undecided but certainly won't lend my vote to a maskivist/locktivist party or a party that supports vaccine passports.

TPO

 

[Hawkwood Junc]

I despair of the level of nannying that so many of our population are willing to submit themselves to in order to feel “safe.” The desire for people to stop others doing things they enjoy because they have no vaguely reasonable perception of risk is staggering.

At 34 I’m a fair way from having my first vaccination so this is almost certain to affect what I’d like to do this spring and summer.

 

[brad465]

Exactly, the BLM riots went ahead and I don’t recall Priti Patel discussing banning protests back then? The vigil for Sarah Everard takes place and all of a sudden we can’t protest anymore.

Seems to me this government is very selective on who they target

Actually I'm pretty sure action by BLM, XR and others helped contribute to Patel's actions trying to ban protests, it could well be she was trying to plan it all under the radar. The vigil actually saw the police get more condemnation from the Government than the protestors did, simply because on this occasion their voter base will have been involved/affected more than in the aforementioned examples.

It's also possible that back in June the concept of a return to full blown restrictions and in turn more hardship wasn't as big a concept for the Government, so allowing near/full normality before Christmas wouldn't have led to concerns for them. However, the impact of the second wave and all the financial hardship being created on top of that caused by the first wave means that once covid is no longer deemed a threat (which should already be the case), then protestors will want all the injustices to be exposed, not just here but abroad as well.

As a result the Government will want to try to stifle this in order to preserve popularity and thus try and restrict/ban protests on a long term basis.

 

[bramling]

I despair of the level of nannying that so many of our population are willing to submit themselves to in order to feel “safe.” The desire for people to stop others doing things they enjoy because they have no vaguely reasonable perception of risk is staggering.

At 34 I’m a fair way from having my first vaccination so this is almost certain to affect what I’d like to do this spring and summer.

It doesn’t help that there’s clearly a lot of people who want to big everything up, as the longer it all goes on for the longer they will be able to continue working from home or furlough.

Such people don’t give a stuff about anyone else, and are happy to forego elements of normal life as long as they can continue the current one.

I know someone on who has been on furlough more or less since last March. When told that he’s probably going to be back to work in May, he has decided he will be going sick until at least September.

 

[Eyersey468]

She sounds like some one I would vote for if I lived in the West Midlands, good luck to her, I’m voting for Lawrence Fox but Piers Corbyn has also been on the radar as well so I may consider voting for him as he has been pretty vocal about all of this (more so than his brother Jeremy)

It’s about time we kicked the authoritarians to the curb, and actually return to normal, no ifs, no buts, no conditions, vaccines should be a choice and no one should be coerced or blackmailed into getting one.

There has been enough misery this past year and I don’t see why we should lose any more of our civil liberties for a virus that we will have to live with

I would vote for her as well if I lived in the West Midlands

 

[birchesgreen]

I do live in the West Midlands and now I know about her I will probably vote for her!

 

[Bantamzen]

It doesn’t help that there’s clearly a lot of people who want to big everything up, as the longer it all goes on for the longer they will be able to continue working from home or furlough.

Such people don’t give a stuff about anyone else, and are happy to forego elements of normal life as long as they can continue the current one.

I know someone on who has been on furlough more or less since last March. When told that he’s probably going to be back to work in May, he has decided he will be going sick until at least September.

Let's hope that no-one tips their employer off....

Seriously though, these kind of people need calling out now. They are harming our economy, and preventing the restart of the flow of money to pay for essential services. I am taking a highly militant line with such types, anyone who tells me that its "too soon" to start because they don't want to go back will be accused of harming the NHS. You know, fight fire with fire.

As for these vaccine passports, it heartening to see rapid growth in opposition to them in the House. This is going to start to spook BoJo, hopefully enough for him back away from the idea before it gains any political traction. Interestingly enough this morning the BBC were talking to the pub industry, politicians & a virologist & were still not able to dredge up a good argument for them, so I suspect even they are struggling. I suspect as the weeks pass by, the idea of them will become more & more unpalatable.

 

[greyman42]

The only way to stop this is by people refusing to do it. Once I’m fully vaccinated I’m not wearing a mask.

Neither am i and other people need to follow. It is no good moaning about it if you are not prepared to back it up. If the vast majority stop wearing masks then the government will drop the legislation rather than look weak.

 

[bramling]

Neither am i and other people need to follow. It is no good moaning about it if you are not prepared to back it up. If the vast majority stop wearing masks then the government will drop the legislation rather than look weak.

Round here if anything things seem to be going the other way. A core of people seem to want *more* mask use, and have an answer to anything as to why it’s so vital.

Let's hope that no-one tips their employer off....

Seriously though, these kind of people need calling out now. They are harming our economy, and preventing the restart of the flow of money to pay for essential services. I am taking a highly militant line with such types, anyone who tells me that its "too soon" to start because they don't want to go back will be accused of harming the NHS. You know, fight fire with fire.

As for these vaccine passports, it heartening to see rapid growth in opposition to them in the House. This is going to start to spook BoJo, hopefully enough for him back away from the idea before it gains any political traction. Interestingly enough this morning the BBC were talking to the pub industry, politicians & a virologist & were still not able to dredge up a good argument for them, so I suspect even they are struggling. I suspect as the weeks pass by, the idea of them will become more & more unpalatable.

Agree with all of the above. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing about the going sick - surely over a year off work would be enough for anyone, but clearly not. I wouldn’t be surprised if the person in question then hands his notice in, so much for “job retention”.

 

[Bikeman78]

To provide a reason to allow people to go to the pub without masks but still insist on masks on public transport etc forever.

Virtually impossible to enforce on trains. Most stations are unstaffed. I'm struggling to think of a time in the past year that I've seen a copper on a train. I think maybe once on Merseyrail but they might have been security staff. I think the appetite for mask wearing will diminish once most people have had the vaccine.

 

[dave87016]

Here’s my opinion and it may not sit well with some but that’s all it is - my opinion

The whole handling of pandemic has been a shambles from the timing , to the measures taken , from the PPE fiasco and Track and trace farce to the amount of u turns Boris has made the lack of action taken against goverment officials who ignored the rules such as Cummings yet some of the public have been treated unfairly

A real kick in the teeth by our goverment regarding pay rise that our magnificent NHS staff deserve having gone above and beyond over the past year

Anyway personally I think Boris has brought the country to its knees and his idea of normality is living in a bubble that he envisaged which is him being the shepherd and the rest of the UK the sheep

If the numbers are low and there is very minimal risk then The Covid passports should only be used for people coming in and out of the UK from foreign climates this would help protect the United Kingdom having a Covid passport offers no benefits domestically and would only create more job losses force more businesses to close and remove people’s freedom

What is the point in having a successful vaccination programme designed to help us get to the old normal if our way of life and our freedom is littered with restrictions

I shouldn’t need to plan a Covid test etc to go for a pint if I want to go for a pint then that’s my business not the goverments

 

[NorthKent1989]

Here’s my opinion and it may not sit well with some but that’s all it is - my opinion

The whole handling of pandemic has been a shambles from the timing , to the measures taken , from the PPE fiasco and Track and trace farce to the amount of u turns Boris has made the lack of action taken against goverment officials who ignored the rules such as Cummings yet some of the public have been treated unfairly

A real kick in the teeth by our goverment regarding pay rise that our magnificent NHS staff deserve having gone above and beyond over the past year

Anyway personally I think Boris has brought the country to its knees and his idea of normality is living in a bubble that he envisaged

If the numbers are low and there is very minimal risk then The Covid passports should only be used for people coming in and out of the UK from foreign climates this would help protect the United Kingdom having a Covid passport offers no benefits domestically and would only create more job losses force more businesses to close and remove people’s freedom

What is the point in having a successful vaccination programme designed to help us get to the old normal if our way of life and our freedom is littered with restrictions

I shouldn’t need to plan a Covid test etc to go for a pint if I want to go for a pint then that’s my business not the goverments

It’s not unpopular what you’ve said, the majority of us here agree with you in some form.

Personally I think that vaccine passports for domestic purposes will be rejected, either Boris will half heartedly leave it up to businesses to make it seem like he’s doing something to please the locktavists and said businesses won’t bother enforcing it, or he will face a backlash which is already happening with Tory rebels, the Lib Dem’s, The Corbyn wing of Labour and even Starmer himself, civil liberties groups, human rights lawyers and discrimination watchdogs, as for the public, I think support is 55/45 for vaccine passports but after seeing packed out parks and heaths a few days back with zero social distancing and large groups more than six, locktavists are becoming a minority

 

[Bikeman78]

I know someone on who has been on furlough more or less since last March. When told that he’s probably going to be back to work in May, he has decided he will be going sick until at least September.

There's people like that in every company. When Covid started kicking off, there was a discussion in the office about which people were likely to be the first to self isolate. It didn't take long to be proved right. I've not had so much as a cough or sniffle for a year yet some people have isolated three or four times.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Also those adults that have had a first dose (i.e. me) are going to feel pretty pee'd off if there is the prospect of restrictions remaining in place despite the success of the vaccine rollout.

We took the vaccine on the understanding that it was going to be our "..way to freedom..." and getting our old life back, and as someone who usually votes Conservative, Boris needn't think he is getting my vote if he carries on with this idiotic plan.

Agreed.

I did not allow someone to recently stab me in the upper arm so that I would have to produce my papers or still wear a mask to get into anywhere or onto anything.