• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

Status
Not open for further replies.

brad465

Established Member
Joined
11 Aug 2010
Messages
6,968
Location
Taunton or Kent
That is very concerning, the vaccines are incredibly effective, and this talk of boosters is based in reassuring the hypochondriacs, rather than in medical need.
This is my thought. A booster so soon after two shots seems quite disproportionate.
Not only that, but it's depriving other parts of the world of first vaccines they need for their most vulnerable folk.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Crossover

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Messages
9,247
Location
Yorkshire
I’ve booked my second vaccine for next week, which will be under six weeks since the first. Seems early to me but had a text inviting me to do so so thought I may as well.

My brother has been invited for his second and is going this weekend - a 4 week gap

My second is still booked for August, an 11 week gap. Thinking of leaving it and spreading the protection out a bit
 

37424

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2020
Messages
1,064
Location
Leeds
That is very concerning, the vaccines are incredibly effective, and this talk of boosters is based in reassuring the hypochondriacs, rather than in medical need.
Is that based on solid medical expertise? given that I am in the highly vulnerable group and my consultant was telling me even before my 2nd jab that I would be likely to need a booster jab later in the year.
 

The Ham

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
10,282
Is that based on solid medical expertise? given that I am in the highly vulnerable group and my consultant was telling me even before my 2nd jab that I would be likely to need a booster jab later in the year.

There does appear to be two extremes of views, on one side those who fear that we should stay in lockdown until it's 100% safe and those who fear that any announcement is to keep us in lockdown forever.

As such some will, as soon as there's an announcement that there's the possibility of needing a booster that some will say "see we need more lockdowns" whilst others will say "oh no there's going to be more lockdowns".

I would like to hope that we don't need more lockdowns as more of us are protected from the first double jab and this protection would be increased further by a booster program, this reducing further the need for restrictions continuing.

This is based on the fact that whilst the easing of restrictions has been paused, there's now fairly few calling for them to be increased.

That's against a backdrop of the number of cases over a 7 day period doubling in the last 12 days having doubled from 12 days before that, yet the numbers being admitted to hospital going up by just under 20% in the same time period.

However even then the number of deaths is generally falling (there's been a small rise in the number of deaths in a 7 day period from a low point a few days before the latest data but that's still lower than a week before that).

With current values of around 100 in a 7 day period. In fact of the 6 days where there's been fewer than 150 deaths over a 7 day period 5 are the latest 5 days and the other was last August. likewise of the 14 days with less than 200 deaths in a 7 day period half are the latest 7 days and the other half were last summer (both consecutive days).

However last summer there were 5,000 cases/week, now there's 100,000 cases/week.

As such the evidence for needing tighter restrictions just isn't there
 

SJN

Member
Joined
20 Oct 2012
Messages
388
Location
Birmingham
I was 50 earlier this year and I’ve had both jabs but I’m not planning on having a third or a flu jab.
 

Yew

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2011
Messages
6,538
Location
UK
Is that based on solid medical expertise? given that I am in the highly vulnerable group and my consultant was telling me even before my 2nd jab that I would be likely to need a booster jab later in the year.
Have any trials into the efficacy of booster jabs been undertaken? Is there any solid evidence that they are necessary?
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,818
Location
Yorks
I wonder whether it really will be like the flu jab, where certain people are urged to get it but if they don't, they don't and things carry on as normal (as opposed to lockdown being held over everyone like a sword of Damocles).

I don't object to the booster jab being offered to people if they think it will help. It's the narrative "to prevent a winter lockdown" going with it that I find troubling.
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
20,382
Location
0035
I shan’t be having a booster jab.
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
10,672
Location
Redcar
Vaccines for the extremely vulnerable is our way out of all restrictions, get them jabbed now!
Vaccines for all adults is our way out of all restrictions, book yours now!
Boosters for over 50's is our way out of all restrictions, honestly!

It won't end unless people act and it's becoming clear to me that people haven't got the balls to do anything about it. What's also clear is that the majority of the country is in favour of whatever this government tells them to do despite what people on here have claimed otherwise, including me.

Changes to furlough start today, it will be interesting to see if that sways things when the reality of further job losses kicks in.
 

Dent

Member
Joined
4 Feb 2015
Messages
1,106
In fact of the 6 days where there's been fewer than 150 deaths over a 7 day period 5 are the latest 5 days and the other was last August. likewise of the 14 days with less than 200 deaths in a 7 day period half are the latest 7 days and the other half were last summer (both consecutive days).

What does that mean? You seem to be referring to single days with a number of deaths over a 7 day period, which doesn't make sense. To have anything over a 7 day period you need to be considering a 7 day period by definition, not a single day.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Vaccines for the extremely vulnerable is our way out of all restrictions, get them jabbed now!
Vaccines for all adults is our way out of all restrictions, book yours now!
Boosters for over 50's is our way out of all restrictions, honestly!

It won't end unless people act and it's becoming clear to me that people haven't got the balls to do anything about it. What's also clear is that the majority of the country is in favour of whatever this government tells them to do despite what people on here have claimed otherwise, including me.

Changes to furlough start today, it will be interesting to see if that sways things when the reality of further job losses kicks in.

I think people are starting to get properly tired of all this, to the point where an increasing number of people are now going back to normal ways of life.

Examples of this:
1) it’s increasingly possible to hold casual conversion with people and find that the topic of Covid doesn’t come up at all
2) mask use on trains is now very conspicuously dropping. I was out and about in London yesterday, and on some trains I’d say there were more people without masks than with. And many more were on the chin.
3) a lot of people aren’t bothering to make any attempt to distance themselves from others at all
 

37424

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2020
Messages
1,064
Location
Leeds
Have any trials into the efficacy of booster jabs been undertaken? Is there any solid evidence that they are necessary?
As far as I am aware there are trials on it although I have herd comments that trails are not taking place including people with damaged immune systems like myself which they should be.

There was a women on TV last week with Lymphoma and tests on her suggested she hadn't developed any antibodies against covid and as result she was continuing to shield. That is a concern for me because while my cancer isn't the same it has some similarities to Lymphoma.

Therefore for me personally I am dreading any relaxation of restrictions and will need to be even more careful but its clear we are heading in that direction, but I think the idea that we will keep restrictions going while the most vulnerable groups have a booster jab is simply not going to happen.

If some people don't want a booster jab well I guess that's up to them, I will certainly be getting one.

What I am very annoyed about is likes of IDS saying that they should stop publishing the daily covid figures on the grounds it frightens people. My view of that is unprintable its not a case of being frightened but for people in the vulnerable groups need to know what the threat level is and asses the risk as they see fit.

It is clear that the vaccine is working for most people and hospital admissions are low but, what the effect of easing restrictions will be remains to be seen and need to keep a close eye on.
 
Last edited:

nlogax

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
5,352
Location
Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
Fine with a booster jab if it's offered, sounds like it will be to cohorts 1 thru 9 as before.

I'd be even happier if I could get the flu jab in one arm and the Covid booster in the other during a single GP visit.
 

liam456

Member
Joined
6 May 2018
Messages
268
Some interesting analysis here which suggests that my early September, we will run out of vaccines. As well as speculation that our case numbers right now amount to herd immunity though the back door (for the young) to somewhat cover for this:

 

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,668
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
What I am very annoyed about is likes of IDS saying that they should stop publishing the daily covid figures on the grounds it frightens people. My view of that is unprintable its not a case of being frightened but for people in the vulnerable groups need to know what the threat level is and asses the risk as they see fit.

It is clear that the vaccine is working for most people and hospital admissions are low but, what the effect of easing restrictions will be remains to be seen and need to keep a close eye on.
I tend to agree with IDS on this one, daily infection numbers really aren't going to help inform people & is really only of use for newspaper headlines. For people at risk, their medical practitioners are the ones who should be having conversations on risk mitigation, not some data analysts in Whitehall.
 

MikeWM

Established Member
Joined
26 Mar 2010
Messages
4,382
Location
Ely
Have any trials into the efficacy of booster jabs been undertaken? Is there any solid evidence that they are necessary?

Indeed. I also wonder if it is especially wise to be continually training your immune system to fight one specific virus, and whether that will make it less good at fighting other bad stuff when they come along to challenge it.

Annual flu vaccinations I understand, as they are different each year as there are a lot of different types of flu. But, tiny mutations apart, Covid is the same thing now as it was a few months ago when people got the vaccine, and so I'm not at all sure what the argument for boosters is supposed to be other than 'we need to carry on being seen to do stuff' (and pump yet more public money to the big pharmaceutical companies).
 

37424

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2020
Messages
1,064
Location
Leeds
I tend to agree with IDS on this one, daily infection numbers really aren't going to help inform people & is really only of use for newspaper headlines. For people at risk, their medical practitioners are the ones who should be having conversations on risk mitigation, not some data analysts in Whitehall.
I totally disagree on that people should know the infection rates in their local area, but if nothing else IDS has confirmed my vote for Labour today
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
I totally disagree on that people should know the infection rates in their local area, but if nothing else IDS has confirmed my vote for Labour today

I’d take a middle ground on this. The data should certainly be available. However having the headline figures constantly plastered over the news I think is increasingly alarmist.

The info should be there for people who want it, but not rammed down our throats.
 

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,668
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
I totally disagree on that people should know the infection rates in their local area, but if nothing else IDS has confirmed my vote for Labour today
Well that's your choice. However I don't understand how local rates would shape someone's decision? Unless rates are well into tens of thousands per 100,000, which they almost certainly will never be, then the chances of actually meeting someone with covid & actually getting it when you are out & about are incredibly small. And to put it bluntly, if someone is in a vulnerable group for covid they are also likely to be vulnerable to a whole host of other illnesses. As I said, people at risk should be discussing mitigations with their doctors / consultants & not relying on a newspaper headline.

I’d take a middle ground on this. The data should certainly be available. However having the headline figures constantly plastered over the news I think is increasingly alarmist.

The info should be there for people who want it, but not rammed down our throats.
The problem is so long as the dashboard remains, the media will lap it up and misrepresent it. Sure have the data available, but it doesn't need to be daily or even weekly. And as above, the public shouldn't be using it to to decide if they are going to go outside today.
 

Crossover

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Messages
9,247
Location
Yorkshire
Fine with a booster jab if it's offered, sounds like it will be to cohorts 1 thru 9 as before.

I'd be even happier if I could get the flu jab in one arm and the Covid booster in the other during a single GP visit.
Mention on the radio news this morning was just that - two jabs at the same time, one in each arm
 

37424

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2020
Messages
1,064
Location
Leeds
Well that's your choice. However I don't understand how local rates would shape someone's decision? Unless rates are well into tens of thousands per 100,000, which they almost certainly will never be, then the chances of actually meeting someone with covid & actually getting it when you are out & about are incredibly small. And to put it bluntly, if someone is in a vulnerable group for covid they are also likely to be vulnerable to a whole host of other illnesses. As I said, people at risk should be discussing mitigations with their doctors / consultants & not relying on a newspaper headline.


The problem is so long as the dashboard remains, the media will lap it up and misrepresent it. Sure have the data available, but it doesn't need to be daily or even weekly. And as above, the public shouldn't be using it to to decide if they are going to go outside today.
I would have thought its obvious, while infection rates are high and on the increase I am not using public transport, I'm not visiting pubs and restaurants except outside, and visits to shops are very limited. When the restrictions come off I am even less likely to do any of the above, if and when we get to the stage that infections are on the decline then I can potentially change my position, if however I have no information then I will have to assume the default high infection position. As for Doctors advising on mitigations do you think they have time to do that?, other than being told that vaccine may not work that well for me and need to be careful and them giving me a sick note until I got my second jab after shielding had ended, its largely left to me to do my own risk assessments.
 

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,668
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
I would have thought its obvious, while infection rates are high and on the increase I am not using public transport, I'm not visiting pubs and restaurants except outside, and visits to shops are very limited. When the restrictions come off I am even less likely to do any of the above, if and when we get to the stage that infections are on the decline then I can potentially change my position, if however I have no information then I will have to assume the default high infection position.
That's your choice, although I fear you have more or less confined yourself to quarters for the foreseeable future.

As for Doctors advising on mitigations do you think they have time to do that?, other than being told that vaccine may not work that well for me and need to be careful, its largely left to me to do my own risk assessments.
Sorry what? That is the job of doctors, to advise people on health matters. If someone is at a higher risk it is their job to help them mitigate risks to their health. What next, doctors to tell people with cancer to take paracetamol and call them back in a couple of weeks.
 

liam456

Member
Joined
6 May 2018
Messages
268
Completely unverifiable and could be entirely fake, but it lifted my spirits and might do for someone else:

I still think cases should at the very least stop rising (pretty please :oops:) but it looks alright so far.


Here's the quote:

"Just attended a thoroughly enjoyable dinner with, among others, a behavioural scientist and semi-detached member of SAGE. The chap was drunk enough by about halfway through to consistently refer to a recently-disgraced minister as "Mike Hancock" so take the following with a grain of salt but he's definitely got an interesting take on the last few months:

  • At this point, SAGE is irredeemably split into two factions: the statisticians and about a third of the behavioural scientists want permanent lockdowns, everyone else wants everything lifted as quickly as possible.
  • Ferguson is a good deal quieter than Susan Mitchie about his politics, but he's privately an enthusiastic member of Momentum - most of his predictions over the last twenty years have been driven by an ideological desire to destroy small and medium businesses more than anything else.
  • SAGE was completely blindsided by the Hancock Affair. The pro-lockdown faction hoped for his replacement by Gove or (at worst) Nadhim Zahawi: Javid's come as a genuine surprise to them.
  • Since Javid's appointment, power has shifted decisively away from the pro-lockdown faction.
  • Independent SAGE is privately treated as a joke by pretty much everyone in power at this point."
 
Last edited:

37424

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2020
Messages
1,064
Location
Leeds
That's your choice, although I fear you have more or less confined yourself to quarters for the foreseeable future.


Sorry what? That is the job of doctors, to advise people on health matters. If someone is at a higher risk it is their job to help them mitigate risks to their health. What next, doctors to tell people with cancer to take paracetamol and call them back in a couple of weeks.
My consultant is an expert on blood cancer not on covid precautions, and yes she gave some very basic general advice even before covid about avoiding very crowded environments and the risk of going back to work after shielding and waiting for the 2nd jab before going back to work, but at the end of the day the risk of my daily actions is down to me and how much risk I want to take and as such I want information on covid to help me assess that risk, general advice for the highly vulnerable is on the NHS website, which still includes working from home where possible, not possible in my case, shopping online, and avoiding public transport and shops during busy periods.

I realise I am in the lions den of the anti lockdown brigade on this forum, and for many who had the vaccine its not an issue and want to get back to normal, but for some of us its not that simple
 
Last edited:

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
5,755
Location
Wilmslow
I think the basic precautions against covid are fairly obvious, and my consultant is an expert on blood cancer not on covid precautions, and yes she gave some very basic general advice even before covid about avoiding very crowded environments and the risk of going back to work after shielding, but at the end of the day the risk of my daily actions is down to me and how much risk I want to take and as such I want information on covid to help me assess that risk.
I agree with you, essentially, I may come to different conclusions to you but I take the same approach. Doctors should advise but you are the one who has to take responsibility for your actions and decisions. For which you need information and facts and data, and then you need to assimilate this, interpret this, and come up with an appropriate action plan. The alternative, that of trusting anything our government says, and acting in accordance with this, just isn't an approach I take. So I'm arrogant because I think I know better, but on the other hand I know that I do. Anyway, good luck to you and I hope you get through this well.
 

35B

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2011
Messages
2,295
I agree with you, essentially, I may come to different conclusions to you but I take the same approach. Doctors should advise but you are the one who has to take responsibility for your actions and decisions. For which you need information and facts and data, and then you need to assimilate this, interpret this, and come up with an appropriate action plan. The alternative, that of trusting anything our government says, and acting in accordance with this, just isn't an approach I take. So I'm arrogant because I think I know better, but on the other hand I know that I do. Anyway, good luck to you and I hope you get through this well.
All of which is true, but not necessarily best achieved from what is put out in mass media. I also consider that those treating patients do need to help their patients interpret risk in the context of their specific conditions - Covid may still be particularly threatening to a subset of the population, but it is hardly the only disease that affects the immune compromised.
 

VauxhallandI

Established Member
Joined
26 Dec 2012
Messages
2,743
Location
Cheshunt
My consultant is an expert on blood cancer not on covid precautions, and yes she gave some very basic general advice even before covid about avoiding very crowded environments and the risk of going back to work after shielding and waiting for the 2nd jab before going back to work, but at the end of the day the risk of my daily actions is down to me and how much risk I want to take and as such I want information on covid to help me assess that risk, general advice for the highly vulnerable is on the NHS website, which still includes working from home where possible, not possible in my case, shopping online, and avoiding public transport and shops during busy periods.

I realise I am in the lions den of the anti lockdown brigade on this forum, and for many who had the vaccine its not an issue and want to get back to normal, but for some of us its not that simple
You are aware its your responsibility for your actions and you will make your own assessments; sounds wise. However for the last 18 months you've been happy to outsource these things in the main to the Government?
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
My consultant is an expert on blood cancer not on covid precautions, and yes she gave some very basic general advice even before covid about avoiding very crowded environments and the risk of going back to work after shielding and waiting for the 2nd jab before going back to work, but at the end of the day the risk of my daily actions is down to me and how much risk I want to take and as such I want information on covid to help me assess that risk, general advice for the highly vulnerable is on the NHS website, which still includes working from home where possible, not possible in my case, shopping online, and avoiding public transport and shops during busy periods.

I realise I am in the lions den of the anti lockdown brigade on this forum, and for many who had the vaccine its not an issue and want to get back to normal, but for some of us its not that simple

On the contrary, your position is completely reasonable and understandable. All of us have had to make some degree of risk assessment over the whole thing, including over taking the vaccine (I'm still in the "hold off and wait for a bit" camp, as are pretty much all the under-40s I know - but on the contrary personally I would encourage anyone over 40-50 to take it as the balance of risk probably tips the other way then).

The key is making a reasoned judgement - I wish the media would simply present the figures, not put a slant on it like "terrifying doubling of cases in a week", or whatever.

Part of the issue is that it's very apparent that many people have consistently over-estimated the level of risk posed to themselves by Covid, for example grossly under-estimating the median age of death, or the odds of ending up in hospital. For me this is a distraction, as the more people get sick of having to go along with measures which are simply there to be seen to be doing something, the less it is taken seriously for those cases where there really is a tangible risk.

This isn't to do it down, however on the contrary I know people who have ended up in hospital (and in one case sadly passing away) due to having allowed their shielding to become compromised. So for me the focus is making sound individual judgements, rather than the puerile government nonsense like "let's all do our bit", "travel with confidence", or whatever. In any event, the government don't give a toss whether you or I catch SARS-CoV-2, they're only interested in whether hospitals fill up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top